As previously mentioned, I believe most Catholics are in Christ because they accept the basis of salvation. I also believe much of the Church's teaching are, if not in error, misguided. There is the Word, and there are the traditions of Men. The Catholic Church holds them equally valid.
The Catholic Church holds Tradition, not mans traditions as equal in authority to the Bible. The Church proceeded the cannon of the Bible. Reformers were the first to label the Churches Tradition as man's tradition and it was an attempt to separate the Catholic Church from the Bible and Protestantism.
On one of the threads above, the question was "where does it say you can't pray to other than God" (paraphrased). Where does it say you can? Where is the example?
- Jesus and several of his disciples did - during the Transfiguration - Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:2-8
- Cloud of Witnesses - Hebrews 12:1 is also compelling.
- Also where does it say that we are supposed to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday? There's a tradition of man that we both follow - if you label traditions that are not explicitly commanded in the Bible as traditions of men.
Why would you?
Same reason you ask your Christian brothers and sisters to pray for you.
Praying to someone is far different than praying for someone, or asking someone to pray for you.
How so?
I'm not picking a fight with Catholics, but the Word doesn't support most of the practice, and that's just a fact. The Lord said "your laws are nothing but rules made by men, your hearts are far from Me." Was He talking about the Catholic Church? Not specifically, but the warning certainly applies.
No he was talking about man's laws - especially frivolous laws that are forced on people. Simony in the Middle Ages is a perfect example / believing that the Bible must be interpreted literally is another.
That being said, some people need legalism and ritual to feel "religious." Is it a stumbling block to a personal relationship with God?
Others need to feel like they have to eradicate all symbolism from Christianity or deny that they even belong to a religion in order to be a true Christian - like anything else this can be a stumbling block to a personal relationship with God.
I suspect the confessional, while "good for the soul" likely has zero impact on forgiveness as it substitutes the judgment of men (particularly in having penance dictated by men) for what is rightfully the purview of the Lord.
Mathew 2:6-12.
Also, when you sin, you sin against God and you sin against the Body. Asking God's forgiveness is the first step in confession, then you need to go to the Body, represented by a priest and ask forgiveness. The early church understood this idea - but they were a bit more strict - they had members confess their sins to the whole congregation.
Nor do I believe that a priestly class is specially empowered to impact salvation one way or the other. I think it is dangerous to have any human inserted into a personal one-on-one relationship with the Father. Men are fallible and weak.
I thought Protestants were really big on personal relationships with God? And despite our many weaknesses God uses us to advance His Kingdom everyday - Amen!
As for Mary, she has certainly been elevated to a position not biblically supported. I can't say all Catholics worship her, but I could certainly understand why some would be confused since her name is invoked so often.
Mary is a fully sanctified person - she is a deified, fully human creation - a work that Jesus has finished in a way we will all be finished - how is it unbiblical for us to recognize this fact? Or be excited about it? Mary always points to God.
I don't know of any Catholic that worships Mary. I know a lot of Protestants that think Catholics worship Mary - which group is more confused?
I guess it depends on what you consider "worship" to mean. The Word tells me to pray in the name of Jesus, and no other, for His name is above all others and it is only through Him that we are saved.
Where?
I am told by the Word that I "stand or fall on my own," and not through the efforts of a priest, saint, or Mary.
Verse?
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, and if I am in error take me to the Word and show me. There are many errors that metastasize within the body.
Not offended at all
All rely in some measure on placing a leader in charge of the salvation of others or judging the worthiness for salvation and adding additional layers to the requirements of salvation beyond what the Lord said. If the argument is that they aren't necessary then why have them? Why add confusion, or leave an impression, or add a stumbling block to your brother?
One man's spiritual treasure is another man's spiritual junk. It is impossible to judge the value of anything that you are afraid of, despise, or do not fully understand.
If there is a Catholic near death who is concerned about salvation because they haven't received last rites or confessed, isn't that doubt really directed at the Grace of the Lord?
No educated Catholic believes this to be true. You are judging the doctrine of my church through the eyes of a hypothetical pew-sitter.
Who placed that notion in their head?
It is based on their own bi-proxy relationship with God - it is similar to the insecure Protestant who believes they must read the whole Bible before they die - instead of working on their relationship with God, they have externalized their religion - happens all the time in all churches.
What do we need beyond the Word
Careful! Your Protestantism is showing....
At what point does ritual and practice make us "whitewashed temples filled with dead men's bones?"
When ritual and practice become externalized. The problem is not the doctrine, it is the person. Some people externalize everything in their lives. The husband, who ignores his wife except on Valentines Day in an effort to 'make up' for the rest of the year; the Catholic, who only show up to Mass to take the Eucharist because he is superstitious about it and believes it has some power to save him or keep him safe; or the Protestant that gets saved and never darkens the door of a church in his life and refers to God as the man upstairs and thinks he is going to Heaven.
I remember playing the trumpet in Junior High band - all I really did was push down the buttons and tap my foot, but I got to play at Disneyland! Everyone knew I was a fraud, but I thought I was a real member of the band. Lots of people tap there way through life - the answer to the spiritual foot-tapper, despite the Reformers is not to start a new church. Starting a new church in order to reform the foot-tappers is about as effective as a boss buying new equipment for his slacker employees in hopes of inspiring them to work.
