Propaganda

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Feb 3, 2010
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#1
I am getting the picture that political propaganda is allowed, and possibly encouraged on this site. I hope I am wrong about this, but after reading the 3rd temple thread, I doubt it.

This type of material has nothing to do with Christianity or Bible discussions and should be banned.
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#2
I concur. I also think that the horrendous attacks on people's characters should be warrant for a ban too, such as this hate-filled, unG-dly mess from Cup of Ruin:

You people make me sick, you murderers, you American Zionists 'christians' are just as guilty as the ones pulling the triggers, and you are going to get what you deserve, you psychopaths, you liars, you child murderers, you spawn of hell, you evil serpents!
 

oopsies

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2009
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#3
I concur. I also think that the horrendous attacks on people's characters should be warrant for a ban too, such as this hate-filled, unG-dly mess from Cup of Ruin:
Hahahahahahahaha. That's normal. Cup, watchman, and Miktre should be made honourary exceptions. :p If you ban them, we wouldn't get any entertainment on the forums! :D
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#4
:)

I would think, on a Christian forum, values and principle would be more important than entertainment.
 
Feb 3, 2010
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#5
Hahahahahahahaha. That's normal. Cup, watchman, and Miktre should be made honourary exceptions. :p If you ban them, we wouldn't get any entertainment on the forums! :D
That is the problem - they are the exception. I think the same rules should apply to them as it did to joint-heir - they are certainly as obnoxious.
 

oopsies

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2009
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#6
:)

I would think, on a Christian forum, values and principle would be more important than entertainment.
But in a Bible study, you still need some laughter otherwise, we'd all fall asleep particularly after a long day at work! They provide us with things to laugh about! :D
 
Jan 22, 2010
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#7
But in a Bible study, you still need some laughter otherwise, we'd all fall asleep particularly after a long day at work! They provide us with things to laugh about! :D
I can understand that, but here's what troubles me. It's a BIBLE STUDY, which means studying the bible. The bible is a book about G-d, and to laugh at people spreading hatred and lies doesn't seem right to me.
 

oopsies

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2009
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#8
I can understand that, but here's what troubles me. It's a BIBLE STUDY, which means studying the bible. The bible is a book about G-d, and to laugh at people spreading hatred and lies doesn't seem right to me.
I've learned that such people will continue to spread hatred and lies regardless of what you say or do. All you can really do is one of two things: ignore them or respond to them. If you ban them, you are responding to them and they will come back in unrelenting force. If you respond to them with an argument or debate, they will be encouraged and continue. Or, you can laugh at them and at the very least, prolong your sanity. I'm tired of reasoning with them so I choose the latter.
 
Feb 3, 2010
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#9
But in a Bible study, you still need some laughter otherwise, we'd all fall asleep particularly after a long day at work! They provide us with things to laugh about! :D
Also, people who are tired of their lies and propaganda tend to get banned, while they continue to post.
 
L

lil-rush

Guest
#11
Hahahahahahahaha. That's normal. Cup, watchman, and Miktre should be made honourary exceptions.
So it is allowed because it is expected of them? What you are saying is that you allow bad behavior as long as it is coming from someone who is prone to bad behavior.

If you carry that logic into the real world, you are basically saying you would accept serial killing because it is expected that they will kill; you would accept bratty children acting out in public because it is expected of them; you would accept sex-addicts cheating on their spouses because it is expected of them; you would accept terrorists killing your family because it is expected of them.

Meanwhile, you can sit back and laugh because it is so freaking hilarious when people act out and don't show common decency. [/sarcasm]

:p If you ban them, we wouldn't get any entertainment on the forums! :D
People should not have to deal with insults at the expense of your personal amusement. While you may find it amusing when called the spawn of hell, others don't. I've learned to ignore Cup, but that does not mean others should have to. This is a Christian site, as such it should be user-friendly. People should not have to grow thicker skin in order to participate in forum discussions. If this was a secular site, I wouldn't give a hoot, but Christians are called to a higher standard, and when someone is allowed to say blatantly insulting and/or racist/prejudice things there is a failing on the part of Christians. God holds us to a high standard. We are children of the Most High, and as such we should not be wallowing in the pit of ad hominem, racism, crude jokes, etc.

Personally, when I have a friend tell me he will never return to this site due to the fact that he feels like the owners must be anti-semitic if they allow anti-semitic propaganda to be spread all over the forums, I feel embarrassed. Embarrassed that I introduced the friend to this site, and embarrassed for the owner of this site that my friend would get an impression of him that I know is not true, but also know I can't refute when the evidence shows otherwise. I personally have no beef with the owners of this site, but it does seem like a huge oversight to allow such insulting words to be said repeatedly on here.

So you go ahead and laugh, but to others this is a very serious, and insulting matter.
 
M

Matthew

Guest
#12
I really like coming here to CC and interacting with people, but in truth I very rarely post in, or even read the Bible Discussion forum due to some of the content that is accepted, I don't complain because it is not my place to set the standards here, but I don't find it a pleasent environment because many times someone will make a point or post a topic seeking opinions and someone then comes back with a nasty condemnation of them for speaking against the bible, while that is just their own opinion, and therefore the tone of superiority and judgement really becomes off-putting, and sadly this often leads to entire threads degenerating into circular arguments about which of the two is actually the heretic, it's quite sad to see two christians get into a conversation like that and have no-one step in.......so I stick to the other forums where things are a little more cordial.

I know fierce debate can be expected but it's not what's said a lot of times, but how it is said, people should read there posts back and consider how they will come across before posting them.
 

oopsies

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2009
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#13
So it is allowed because it is expected of them? What you are saying is that you allow bad behavior as long as it is coming from someone who is prone to bad behavior.

If you carry that logic into the real world, you are basically saying you would accept serial killing because it is expected that they will kill; you would accept bratty children acting out in public because it is expected of them; you would accept sex-addicts cheating on their spouses because it is expected of them; you would accept terrorists killing your family because it is expected of them.

Meanwhile, you can sit back and laugh because it is so freaking hilarious when people act out and don't show common decency. [/sarcasm]

People should not have to deal with insults at the expense of your personal amusement. While you may find it amusing when called the spawn of hell, others don't. I've learned to ignore Cup, but that does not mean others should have to. This is a Christian site, as such it should be user-friendly. People should not have to grow thicker skin in order to participate in forum discussions. If this was a secular site, I wouldn't give a hoot, but Christians are called to a higher standard, and when someone is allowed to say blatantly insulting and/or racist/prejudice things there is a failing on the part of Christians. God holds us to a high standard. We are children of the Most High, and as such we should not be wallowing in the pit of ad hominem, racism, crude jokes, etc.

Personally, when I have a friend tell me he will never return to this site due to the fact that he feels like the owners must be anti-semitic if they allow anti-semitic propaganda to be spread all over the forums, I feel embarrassed. Embarrassed that I introduced the friend to this site, and embarrassed for the owner of this site that my friend would get an impression of him that I know is not true, but also know I can't refute when the evidence shows otherwise. I personally have no beef with the owners of this site, but it does seem like a huge oversight to allow such insulting words to be said repeatedly on here.

So you go ahead and laugh, but to others this is a very serious, and insulting matter.
This is an online forum - that's all it is. Expect this type of behaviour from people. In real life, most don't behave this way, but once online, they let loose the things that have been keeping hold on their heart. I'm sure even you have done that before on CC - things you wouldn't say to a friend or stranger but once online, it becomes more acceptable to throw away the fluff and tell it like it is. If you're going to ban them, ban them on name calling but not because they disagree with your viewpoints. The rest is up to you - how you deal with these people here is indicative of how you deal with people and your own feelings in real life. For example, I now choose to take what they say lightly and with jest. That's a personal choice I made because I see no point to allow their type of person affect how God works in my life. I know what he says about me is not true, so there is no point to fight it. It's like Romans 14, Paul explains to the Jews that eating meat that had been sacrificed to pagan idols is not a sin because at the root of it, you realize that the idols are just pieces of wood and that nothing was actually "sacrificed" to them. This is the same thing. At the root of it, you know that what they say is untrue and holds no water. So it is meaningless to argue, to get upset, to get angry, or to get hurt over it. Like how I am upset with Keith - I am upset at his behaviour while holding himself out as a pastor, not at his words because I know the things he said about me is not true.

To each their own.
 

oopsies

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2009
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#14
A good question to ask is this:

If you were banned from CC for absolutely no reason other than the fact that the moderator didn't like you, would you be upset?

If you would be upset, you have the right to do so. Is it necessary? I don't believe so because in real life, you will not always be welcomed in certain social groups or settings. Does that mean you're going to be upset every time some group of people don't accept you? How you react to being banned from an online forum is indicative of how you will react to a real life situation.
 

oopsies

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2009
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#15
I really like coming here to CC and interacting with people, but in truth I very rarely post in, or even read the Bible Discussion forum due to some of the content that is accepted, I don't complain because it is not my place to set the standards here, but I don't find it a pleasent environment because many times someone will make a point or post a topic seeking opinions and someone then comes back with a nasty condemnation of them for speaking against the bible, while that is just their own opinion, and therefore the tone of superiority and judgement really becomes off-putting, and sadly this often leads to entire threads degenerating into circular arguments about which of the two is actually the heretic, it's quite sad to see two christians get into a conversation like that and have no-one step in.......so I stick to the other forums where things are a little more cordial.

I know fierce debate can be expected but it's not what's said a lot of times, but how it is said, people should read there posts back and consider how they will come across before posting them.
I felt that way at one point too. There is a thread somewhere from months ago where I had to take a breather. Then I came back into the Bible Discussion forum and ended up adding people to my ignore list. Finally, just recently, I got over it. It doesn't matter how they behave - what they say or do shouldn't affect your participation. No one is ever 100% accepted in any group setting - not even in a church! And the fact is, you can't control it. All you can do is control your own feelings and even that is stretching the argument. That is why we should put all our faith in Christ because we really don't have "control" over anything.
 
M

Matthew

Guest
#16
I felt that way at one point too. There is a thread somewhere from months ago where I had to take a breather. Then I came back into the Bible Discussion forum and ended up adding people to my ignore list. Finally, just recently, I got over it. It doesn't matter how they behave - what they say or do shouldn't affect your participation. No one is ever 100% accepted in any group setting - not even in a church! And the fact is, you can't control it. All you can do is control your own feelings and even that is stretching the argument. That is why we should put all our faith in Christ because we really don't have "control" over anything.
I get your point, I have a thick skin in general which is why I am here in the first place, I sure didn't join up here expecting nothing but good times, that said I do believe there is one thing we can control and that is our response.

I know my mind and I know how far I can go before losing my temper, if I joined in some of the more heated discussions in Bible Study and someone began directing hateful/judgemental statements toward me simply because of a divergence in our understanding of something, I know I might fail to listen to my better angels and start making bad comments myself and get banned.

You know there comes a time when you have to prevent yourself from being in a sitaution where you know someone may provoke you to bad behaviour, because it can happen to us all.

You may be able to laugh in the face of it but I am not, I am with lil-rush in the sense that it is not something I can laugh at, so if I can't survive in amongst it I choose to stay out of it entirely, if people want to feel like they are the biggest of the small by being unkind to others I won't standby laughing while they do it, I'll be elsewhere doing something vastly more productive and worthwhile. :)

Like you said, to each their own!
 
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lil-rush

Guest
#17
This is an online forum - that's all it is. Expect this type of behaviour from people. In real life, most don't behave this way, but once online, they let loose the things that have been keeping hold on their heart. I'm sure even you have done that before on CC - things you wouldn't say to a friend or stranger but once online, it becomes more acceptable to throw away the fluff and tell it like it is.
I will not lower my standards just because I am online. As I said, this is a Christian site, so the standards should be higher. I realize people act differently online than they do in real life, but this does not mean we should allow such behavior. This is not some online game where people can get away with name-calling and childish behavior. This is a monitored Christian forum. I expect more.

If you're going to ban them, ban them on name calling but not because they disagree with your viewpoints.
I am not requesting people be banned for disagreeing with me. I am requesting blatant racist and insulting comments not be allowed on a Christian site. I really don't think I am asking for much.

The rest is up to you - how you deal with these people here is indicative of how you deal with people and your own feelings in real life. For example, I now choose to take what they say lightly and with jest. That's a personal choice I made because I see no point to allow their type of person affect how God works in my life. I know what he says about me is not true, so there is no point to fight it.
I personally tend to ignore any post made by Cup. I realize nothing I say is going to change the way he feels about things, so I pray for him instead. This does not mean I am going to be accepting of the fact that he and others get away with insulting, libelous, and racist comments daily.

I can't take such comments lightly or with jest. I've been called a n*gger before as an insult. Racism is not a light or funny matter to me. It is real, and I don't accept it. I especially do not accept it among my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I love justice, and so for me it is the highest level of insult for someone to escape punishment that is duly deserved. If this was an expression of grace or mercy, I would understand, but it isn't. This is just negligence and insulting. Insulting that others get banned for less and are not shown grace or mercy when Cup is allowed to stay.

It's like Romans 14, Paul explains to the Jews that eating meat that had been sacrificed to pagan idols is not a sin because at the root of it, you realize that the idols are just pieces of wood and that nothing was actually "sacrificed" to them.
I don't see that in Romans 14.

This is the same thing. At the root of it, you know that what they say is untrue and holds no water. So it is meaningless to argue, to get upset, to get angry, or to get hurt over it. Like how I am upset with Keith - I am upset at his behaviour while holding himself out as a pastor, not at his words because I know the things he said about me is not true.

To each their own.
The power of the tongue. James tells us the tongue is a powerful weapon, and people will be hurt by it. To try and teach others not to be is an effort in futility. People are going to be hurt when insulted. People are going to be hurt when subjected to racist comments. Not all of us can simply let it roll off our backs. Even if it doesn't hurt me personally, it is still a matter of principle. In principle, I cannot stand back and watch racist propaganda being spread. I would be remiss to simply say "well, it doesn't hurt my feelings, so why worry about it?" We should make every effort to crush racism and needless insults.

We are called to be peace-makers, not peace-keepers (James 3:18). Peace-keepers are the ones who say "well, I'm just going to keep my mouth shut so I don't cause any arguments to start up." Peace-makers are the ones who go forth and set wrong to right so that there can be true peace.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
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#18
I really like coming here to CC and interacting with people, but in truth I very rarely post in, or even read the Bible Discussion forum due to some of the content that is accepted, I don't complain because it is not my place to set the standards here, but I don't find it a pleasent environment because many times someone will make a point or post a topic seeking opinions and someone then comes back with a nasty condemnation of them for speaking against the bible, while that is just their own opinion, and therefore the tone of superiority and judgement really becomes off-putting, and sadly this often leads to entire threads degenerating into circular arguments about which of the two is actually the heretic, it's quite sad to see two christians get into a conversation like that and have no-one step in.......so I stick to the other forums where things are a little more cordial.

I know fierce debate can be expected but it's not what's said a lot of times, but how it is said, people should read there posts back and consider how they will come across before posting them.
Jesus has an answer for almost everyone, except the religious fanatic. Them He says nothing to, because they are so filled with their thoughts about what is right and wrong, and how every one else is wrong, that they never hear what is being said.

Jesus did answer those who thought they were right, but they never liked the answer. They tried many times to kill Him. He stood against everything that they believed, was to them a heretic. He did not enjoy this at all.

We will have this trouble until the Lord returns. I ask that He show me what to answer, and if nothing, then I answer nothing.

Blessings brother,
 

NoahsMom

Senior Member
Dec 21, 2008
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#19
." Peace-makers are the ones who go forth and set wrong to right so that there can be true peace.AMEN. Very well said.
 

oopsies

Senior Member
Oct 22, 2009
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#20
." Peace-makers are the ones who go forth and set wrong to right so that there can be true peace.AMEN. Very well said.
It is easy to put it on paper. But as we know, it doesn't always work in real life. If it did, the Middle East would be at peace. But then again, that gets into the whole prophecy and predestination thing.

For example, there are two people who are arguing with each other. Who is to say that one is more right over another? You may break them up but that doesn't mean that any one will feel convicted. So there isn't true peace at the end of the day. You don't let them work it out, you intervened, and they end up hating each other. Who is to say that at the end of the day, they could've worked it out and have true peace?

It is better to set an example of peace than to enforce peace by going forth to set right the wrong.

Matthew 6:38-41 said:
You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
This passage is not just about turning the other cheek. It is about setting an example of peace to bring peace.