Of course I am not trying to prove there is a holding place where the dead sleep in comfort I am just trying to discuss the possibility of it. Again the point between life and death and the final destination is a mystery to those who are alive and have not experienced death but it also is important to discuss life after death because for us who are in Christ death is only the beginning.
Purgatory
- Thread starter Rsanchezhopes
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But that is the thing though. the dead have no conscious of their own and if they have not been resurrected into their new bodies then how are they in heaven and why resurrect them just to take them back there? Even if their souls were in their bodies that would mean that they are not under the alter as a place but as a statues and are in the ground.
Huh? If th cloud of witnesses know what’s going on and the souls under the altar crying out how long know what is going on, they are very much conscious that they are physically dead and are waiting
but HE promised that where HE was that is where HIS servant will be
and absent from the body, just as Paul was (in context) trying to relay is present with the Lord
but HE promised that where HE was that is where HIS servant will be
and absent from the body, just as Paul was (in context) trying to relay is present with the Lord
Because God's salvation is PERFECT -- He redeems your body, soul, and spirit, since you are a tripartite being. Therefore you receive a glorified body into which your perfected and purified soul and spirit are placed for eternity. Christians will not be disembodied spirits but kings and priests in the eternal Kingdom of God. Christ returned to Heaven in His glorified resurrected body, and so all His saints will resemble Him.
Greetings Blain,
Forgive me for jumping in here. When a believer dies, scripture states that for the spirit to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord, where they await the resurrection of their immortal and glorified bodies. We could ask the same question about Jesus, for He told the man who was crucified with Him that he would be with in in paradise that very day. And since both their bodies died that very day then Lord was speaking of their spirits, which I believer were down in the same place where Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort.
The fact is that after three days Jesus' spirit returned to His body, which was then became immortal and glorified and is also a guarantee of every believers resurrection as well. Therefore a resurrection must take place, where the spirit returns to the body which will rise immortal and glorified just as Jesus resurrected.
If you will remember, when Jesus appeared to his disciples behind closed doors after his resurrection, they thought that the Lord was a spirit. But He comforts them saying that is he himself. And as proof he shows them his hands and feet referring to the nail marks. Regarding this the Lord said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have," demonstrating that he was in the same body that he was crucified in, albeit immortal and glorified.
The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" means to physically stand up again in the same body, which is what Jesus did and is what the dead in Christ are going to do.
At the time when the Lord descends to gather the church, he will bring with him all of the spirits of those who have died in him and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. Immediately after that, those who are still alive will simply be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies, with the entire church being caught up and taken back to the Father's house.
In short, since the Lord has a resurrected body, then we must also have a resurrected body. Those who have died will not remain in their spiritual form without a body.
I hope this helps clear things up.
Forgive me for jumping in here. When a believer dies, scripture states that for the spirit to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord, where they await the resurrection of their immortal and glorified bodies. We could ask the same question about Jesus, for He told the man who was crucified with Him that he would be with in in paradise that very day. And since both their bodies died that very day then Lord was speaking of their spirits, which I believer were down in the same place where Abraham and Lazarus were, that place of comfort.
The fact is that after three days Jesus' spirit returned to His body, which was then became immortal and glorified and is also a guarantee of every believers resurrection as well. Therefore a resurrection must take place, where the spirit returns to the body which will rise immortal and glorified just as Jesus resurrected.
If you will remember, when Jesus appeared to his disciples behind closed doors after his resurrection, they thought that the Lord was a spirit. But He comforts them saying that is he himself. And as proof he shows them his hands and feet referring to the nail marks. Regarding this the Lord said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have," demonstrating that he was in the same body that he was crucified in, albeit immortal and glorified.
The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" means to physically stand up again in the same body, which is what Jesus did and is what the dead in Christ are going to do.
At the time when the Lord descends to gather the church, he will bring with him all of the spirits of those who have died in him and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. Immediately after that, those who are still alive will simply be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies, with the entire church being caught up and taken back to the Father's house.
In short, since the Lord has a resurrected body, then we must also have a resurrected body. Those who have died will not remain in their spiritual form without a body.
I hope this helps clear things up.
Hmm...I would think they would instead use the verse about being thrown back into prison until you have paid the last farthing. And maybe the verse that says it will be more tolerable for such and such than it will be for you on the day of judgement...at least, those would be the verses I would use if I were the catholic church...
So then that place of comfort is that heaven itself or is it being in the presence of the lord in a place of comfort until resurrection day or both maybe? I mean if there is a kind of holding place until resurrection is that what Abrahams bosom is? And if we just go to our final destination then why don't we just receive our glorified bodies then?
My compliments for starting this post, I had considered starting it but aware of the conflict.
T broad way leads to death, but death will be conquered: the last enemy.
Then everyone will be released from death and hell to be judged according to their works.
After the 1000 year reign of Christ with those who suffered with Him: not gone back to their old life during the time of trouble, "Through much trouble we enter His Kingdom." Many who think they have entered in at the Straight Gate, and in the Narrow Way, are not and still need to, “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” If you think your there already, it's not likely: it's more likely your comfort zone: Jesus while on earth said, "I have a baptism to be immersed with and how Am I straightened until it be accomplished." If you think this only applies to Jesus: Paul in different words, "Neither do I consider to have attained: one thing I do, forgetting what is behind I press on," to go on to know the Lord. Another place, "To know Christ, to know the power of his resurrection and fellowship in his sufferings, being conformed to Him in his death,"
"For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ."
If you "Seek first the kingdom of God," your in the process of entering.
"The Kingdom of God is Righteousness and Peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost."
Those in death and hell will be released to be judged, we also experience in this life, whether you call it "Purge the old leaven," (purgatory) or hell: it all means separation from the Love of God, Yet we are not separated from His Love because of "Jesus is making intercession for us," When Lazarus was dead, Jesus said He sleeps: to make it plain He was not separated from His friend, yet In following Jesus in His suffering and death we experience tasting death with Him, tasting separation from God with Him, actually experiencing a glimpse of His suffering in hell of purgatory and should you be cough up with earthly languages that were confused until we learn to Love.
Protestant have largely chosen the view that everyone released from hell to be judged according to their works will end up in the lake of fire in eternal separation from God, without fear of adding to the word of God in doing so: while by adding to the words may be adding to themselves the very sufferings they don't believe. "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll." By turning away people form the simplicity of Christ as a Loving God who will reward everyone according to their work and painting Him in their image as a dictator. It doesn't say what the final judgment of everyone according to their works is, other than that everyone will be rewarded according to their works and that those not found in the book of Live end up in the Lake of fire: this is what this whole post is about.
When Jesus rose from the dead He said "I have the keys of death and hell." Neither does this need to challenge the view of eternal security, as it's written that "Jesus is the saviour of all men, especially of then that believe." Those who continue in godly sorrow: to continually repent; returning to their first Love, to seek first His kingdom; following Him in His sufferings and death, are carried by His Spirit in the first Resurrection to rule with Him. "Many are called but few are chosen" Jesus makes an example of a servant that can be obedient or disobedient.
"Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his Lord shall make ruler over His household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when He cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say to you, that He will make him ruler over all that He has. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayed his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink and to be drunk; The Lord of that servant will come in a day when he looked not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him off and will appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will expect more. I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
T broad way leads to death, but death will be conquered: the last enemy.
Then everyone will be released from death and hell to be judged according to their works.
After the 1000 year reign of Christ with those who suffered with Him: not gone back to their old life during the time of trouble, "Through much trouble we enter His Kingdom." Many who think they have entered in at the Straight Gate, and in the Narrow Way, are not and still need to, “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” If you think your there already, it's not likely: it's more likely your comfort zone: Jesus while on earth said, "I have a baptism to be immersed with and how Am I straightened until it be accomplished." If you think this only applies to Jesus: Paul in different words, "Neither do I consider to have attained: one thing I do, forgetting what is behind I press on," to go on to know the Lord. Another place, "To know Christ, to know the power of his resurrection and fellowship in his sufferings, being conformed to Him in his death,"
"For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ."
If you "Seek first the kingdom of God," your in the process of entering.
"The Kingdom of God is Righteousness and Peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost."
Those in death and hell will be released to be judged, we also experience in this life, whether you call it "Purge the old leaven," (purgatory) or hell: it all means separation from the Love of God, Yet we are not separated from His Love because of "Jesus is making intercession for us," When Lazarus was dead, Jesus said He sleeps: to make it plain He was not separated from His friend, yet In following Jesus in His suffering and death we experience tasting death with Him, tasting separation from God with Him, actually experiencing a glimpse of His suffering in hell of purgatory and should you be cough up with earthly languages that were confused until we learn to Love.
Protestant have largely chosen the view that everyone released from hell to be judged according to their works will end up in the lake of fire in eternal separation from God, without fear of adding to the word of God in doing so: while by adding to the words may be adding to themselves the very sufferings they don't believe. "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll." By turning away people form the simplicity of Christ as a Loving God who will reward everyone according to their work and painting Him in their image as a dictator. It doesn't say what the final judgment of everyone according to their works is, other than that everyone will be rewarded according to their works and that those not found in the book of Live end up in the Lake of fire: this is what this whole post is about.
When Jesus rose from the dead He said "I have the keys of death and hell." Neither does this need to challenge the view of eternal security, as it's written that "Jesus is the saviour of all men, especially of then that believe." Those who continue in godly sorrow: to continually repent; returning to their first Love, to seek first His kingdom; following Him in His sufferings and death, are carried by His Spirit in the first Resurrection to rule with Him. "Many are called but few are chosen" Jesus makes an example of a servant that can be obedient or disobedient.
"Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his Lord shall make ruler over His household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Lord when He cometh shall find so doing. Of a truth I say to you, that He will make him ruler over all that He has. But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayed his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink and to be drunk; The Lord of that servant will come in a day when he looked not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him off and will appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to His will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will expect more. I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
I saw a new heaven and a new earth?
do you remember this as mentioned in revelation
somedsy everything will be changed and made new
the way it was supposed to be from the beginning
no more suffering?
no more dying?
no more killing?
and GOD will dwell with men
Please read revelation 21. The new Jerusalem???
do you remember this as mentioned in revelation
somedsy everything will be changed and made new
the way it was supposed to be from the beginning
no more suffering?
no more dying?
no more killing?
and GOD will dwell with men
Please read revelation 21. The new Jerusalem???
J
im stating that the sect of Jews called the Essenes believed the teaching to be true, John was part of this group but more likely their leader.
i dont get why its such a big deal, i get that Catholics teach it, Catholics also teach Jesus was the Christ and He was Son of the Most High, you dont have a problem with those Catholic beliefs.
the bible says many times we face a judgment after death, you think there are only two judgments, heaven and hell, believers are never held accountable for sins?
i dont get why its such a big deal, i get that Catholics teach it, Catholics also teach Jesus was the Christ and He was Son of the Most High, you dont have a problem with those Catholic beliefs.
the bible says many times we face a judgment after death, you think there are only two judgments, heaven and hell, believers are never held accountable for sins?