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PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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Only with people who dance around the topics at hand to play into thier own agenda.




A lot of words... not one addresses the scriptures...

I will repost for you🙂

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.




Lol we can have a back and forth all day but this is silly, it is like asking "why does God allow murder"....

Your questions seem ridiculous to me and are filled with presuppositions I disagree with entirely.


(also satin is not satan, angles are not angels, and no one here would suggest God is powerless, your strawmen are pointless and weak arguments that hold no more weight than someone in unbelief saying "if God loves the world why is there cancer" or "why do Christians suffer if there is a God")

Be genuine if you want to debate, but silly strawmen and presuppositions will be dealt with as such.
Only with people who dance around the topics at hand to play into thier own agenda.




A lot of words... not one addresses the scriptures...

I will repost for you🙂

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.




Lol we can have a back and forth all day but this is silly, it is like asking "why does God allow murder"....

Your questions seem ridiculous to me and are filled with presuppositions I disagree with entirely.


(also satin is not satan, angles are not angels, and no one here would suggest God is powerless, your strawmen are pointless and weak arguments that hold no more weight than someone in unbelief saying "if God loves the world why is there cancer" or "why do Christians suffer if there is a God")

Be genuine if you want to debate, but silly strawmen and presuppositions will be dealt with as such.
Only with people who dance around the topics at hand to play into thier own agenda.




A lot of words... not one addresses the scriptures...

I will repost for you🙂

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
________
Job Chapter 2

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
__________
2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
________
Luke 10:18

“And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”

_______
Ezekiel 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.




Lol we can have a back and forth all day but this is silly, it is like asking "why does God allow murder"....

Your questions seem ridiculous to me and are filled with presuppositions I disagree with entirely.


(also satin is not satan, angles are not angels, and no one here would suggest God is powerless, your strawmen are pointless and weak arguments that hold no more weight than someone in unbelief saying "if God loves the world why is there cancer" or "why do Christians suffer if there is a God")

Be genuine if you want to debate, but silly strawmen and presuppositions will be dealt with as such.
Up to this point you seemed to have had all the answers. Where it not for the sake of all those who read these post I would not even bother. Point is I have had to deal with traditional theology all my life you are nothing new. You speak the same traditional ideas that have left so many in despair. Our churches are like revolving doors. Honest people go to find answers but all they get is more of the same. When a person accepts Christ and is born anew there is a spiritual hunger within them. Its a desire to know more. They need to know something that will give them strength to live their lives from day to day, but instead they get more of the same. To those of you who might be reading this I tell you a truth there is power in the knowledge of God. He desires to tell you these great a wonderful truths, reveling His Son to you in ways that give you peace and comfort in these most troubling times. The time in Israel just before Christ the Jews had at least 400 laws they had to remember everyday of their lives to avoid condemnation. Then sad thing was nearly all of these laws were written in as addition to Moses Law. They where simply the traditional thinking of the elders. It became a yoke upon the shoulders of the Jews that was back breaking. In todays "churches" the children of God are being subjected to the same bondage each denomination declaring to be the only true one. Denomination is just another word for division. Please believe me when I say the Body Of Christ is NOT divided. The only way to the true knowledge of God is thru Jesus Christ. IF EVER you have had the Holy Spirit speak to you Life for you will never be the same. The first time He spoke to my life was to tell me I was undone. I was a deacon in a well known church in our town at the time. This might seem like the voice of chastisement but I can assure you my life changed forever in that moment. From that day forward I was seeking that voice .I did not care if spoke of what I needed to change I just needed to hear the spoken word from the Holy Spirit again. The Holy Spirit does comfort me every day. He is my friend and my teacher. Never get lead off track by traditional religion.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,398
2,184
113
Up to this point you seemed to have had all the answers. Where it not for the sake of all those who read these post I would not even bother. Point is I have had to deal with traditional theology all my life you are nothing new. You speak the same traditional ideas that have left so many in despair. Our churches are like revolving doors. Honest people go to find answers but all they get is more of the same. When a person accepts Christ and is born anew there is a spiritual hunger within them. Its a desire to know more. They need to know something that will give them strength to live their lives from day to day, but instead they get more of the same. To those of you who might be reading this I tell you a truth there is power in the knowledge of God. He desires to tell you these great a wonderful truths, reveling His Son to you in ways that give you peace and comfort in these most troubling times. The time in Israel just before Christ the Jews had at least 400 laws they had to remember everyday of their lives to avoid condemnation. Then sad thing was nearly all of these laws were written in as addition to Moses Law. They where simply the traditional thinking of the elders. It became a yoke upon the shoulders of the Jews that was back breaking. In todays "churches" the children of God are being subjected to the same bondage each denomination declaring to be the only true one. Denomination is just another word for division. Please believe me when I say the Body Of Christ is NOT divided. The only way to the true knowledge of God is thru Jesus Christ. IF EVER you have had the Holy Spirit speak to you Life for you will never be the same. The first time He spoke to my life was to tell me I was undone. I was a deacon in a well known church in our town at the time. This might seem like the voice of chastisement but I can assure you my life changed forever in that moment. From that day forward I was seeking that voice .I did not care if spoke of what I needed to change I just needed to hear the spoken word from the Holy Spirit again. The Holy Spirit does comfort me every day. He is my friend and my teacher. Never get lead off track by traditional religion.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.
I have been filled, made new, been born again by the power of God.

God has never once left me hanging, and the Holy spirit leads my studies.

If you deny it, no skin off my back.

I know my Father in heaven.



Hope you aren't this condescending to everyone who voices different beliefs than what you hold.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
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Jesus was certainly a servant for us in that He died for us, but that's about as far as God being the servant to us that we can go.

BECAUSE He died for us, WE are now HIS servant. Paul makes this case in numerous places. But this idea that God created us for HIM to be our servant is just wrong. In some sense very wrong.

Imagine us facing God upon our death and saying to Him "Well done my faithful Father and servant". If He IS our servant, why couldn't we say that?

I would much rather HEAR from HIM "Well done my faithful servant". I prefer this image:

36 And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat.

37 And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

38 And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.

42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?

43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

45 Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.

46 My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment.

47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

After 55 years of reading this scripture it still brings tears of joy. Thanks
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
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Does this verse speak of a man entering a man?

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Satan is not a man. One thing of interest here is Jesus prayer where He mentioned Judas. Jesus prays to the Father " I have kept all these you have given except Judas,why, because he was marked for destruction from the beginning. Judas was born for one purpose.To betray Jesus.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,654
1,887
113
The time in Israel just before Christ the Jews had at least 400 laws they had to remember everyday of their lives to avoid condemnation. Then sad thing was nearly all of these laws were written in as addition to Moses Law. They where simply the traditional thinking of the elders. It became a yoke upon the shoulders of the Jews that was back breaking. In todays "churches" the children of God are being subjected to the same bondage each denomination declaring to be the only true one. Denomination is just another word for division. Please believe me when I say the Body Of Christ is NOT divided. The only way to the true knowledge of God is thru Jesus Christ. IF EVER you have had the Holy Spirit speak to you Life for you will never be the same. The first time He spoke to my life was to tell me I was undone. I was a deacon in a well known church in our town at the time. This might seem like the voice of chastisement but I can assure you my life changed forever in that moment. From that day forward I was seeking that voice .I did not care if spoke of what I needed to change I just needed to hear the spoken word from the Holy Spirit again. The Holy Spirit does comfort me every day. He is my friend and my teacher. Never get lead off track by traditional religion.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled.

" In todays "churches" the children of God are being subjected to the same bondage each denomination declaring to be the only true one."


To start with, this statement is PROVABLY FALSE... you just make things up.


1. Most denominations make no claim whatsoever of being the "only true church"... so that accusation is false... you just make things up.

Sigh... you just make up stuff.

2. You couldn't possibly know what ALL churches believe unless you've visited every one of the 37 MILLION different churches in the world... you're just presuming things and making things up.

Sigh again... you just make up stuff.



Conclusion:

When someone just makes things up out of thin air... you don't really need a complicated argument to refute him.

"Made up stuff" is just "made up stuff."

..
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,654
1,887
113
FYI... when I mentioned "37 million churches" I wasn't using hyperbole.

There are literally 37 million churches in the world.


So when ANYONE says, "All churches think x" or "All churches do y"... they're just talking like a nutter.
.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,654
1,887
113
Logic & Nutters:

A. To KNOW what 37 million churches all think or do, you'd literally have to visit each one.
B. Even if you COULD visit each one, one of them could change their view the next day.

So when I say you "cannot" know what all the churches think or do, I do NOT mean it's "unlikely" for you to know.
I mean it is LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for you to know.

Therefore, when anyone says, "All churches think this" or "All churches do that", he is being irrational.
He is LITERALLY talking like a nutter.

..
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
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Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Keep it, from what? From himself...

Genesis 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

Why does God ask? Does He not know already? He asks, to let Cain condemn himself with his own mouth.
God is the being of love. He created us to love one another, just like He loved us.
And everybody knows that deep inside, as well as we know when we have strayed from the law of the Spirit of life.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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" In todays "churches" the children of God are being subjected to the same bondage each denomination declaring to be the only true one."


To start with, this statement is PROVABLY FALSE... you just make things up.


1. Most denominations make no claim whatsoever of being the "only true church"... so that accusation is false... you just make things up.

Sigh... you just make up stuff.

2. You couldn't possibly know what ALL churches believe unless you've visited every one of the 37 MILLION different churches in the world... you're just presuming things and making things up.

Sigh again... you just make up stuff.

37 million different churches ! and I just make things ?

Conclusion:

When someone just makes things up out of thin air... you don't really need a complicated argument to refute him.

"Made up stuff" is just "made up stuff."

..

I sat in a meeting once of a major denomination (I will not say which denomination but rest assured you know of it) when the benediction was given this high ranking member prayed "God bless the --------------because we know it is the only true denomination.
You need to get around more.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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I have been filled, made new, been born again by the power of God.

God has never once left me hanging, and the Holy spirit leads my studies.

If you deny it, no skin off my back.

I know my Father in heaven.



Hope you aren't this condescending to everyone who voices different beliefs than what you hold.
I believe what you say is true. You are born again. You are just a continuous individual as a result when you communicate you sometime bring out contention in others. Be that what it may, I will leave you now to your studies while both of us remain with the skin on our necks intact .
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,654
1,887
113
I sat in a meeting once of a major denomination (I will not say which denomination but rest assured you know of it) when the benediction was given this high ranking member prayed "God bless the --------------because we know it is the only true denomination.
You need to get around more.

Your experience with 1 church falls a bit short of having experience with the OTHER 37 MILLION churches in existence.


A. The views of ONE member of a church do not necessarily represent the views of ALL members of a church... and you cannot KNOW the views of ALL the members unless you speak to EVERY SINGLE MEMBER.

B. Even if that man DID represent everyone's view at THAT church, his words have no bearing on the other 37 MILLION churches in the world that have nothing to do with him.

C. This is a classic example of a type of informal logical fallacy called the Fallacy Of Defective Induction... but fancy names aren't needed, most people on CC have good common sense, and realize you're just jumping to conclusions and making ridiculous claims.


Voicing nonsense really LOUD, or OFTEN, has no magical power to turn nonsense into facts.

Nonsense remains nonsense.

,


.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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Your experience with 1 church falls a bit short of having experience with the OTHER 37 MILLION churches in existence.


A. The views of ONE member of a church do not necessarily represent the views of ALL members of a church... and you cannot KNOW the views of ALL the members unless you speak to EVERY SINGLE MEMBER.

B. Even if that man DID represent everyone's view at THAT church, his words have no bearing on the other 37 MILLION churches in the world that have nothing to do with him.

C. This is a classic example of a type of informal logical fallacy called the Fallacy Of Defective Induction... but fancy names aren't needed, most people on CC have good common sense, and realize you're just jumping to conclusions and making ridiculous claims.


Voicing nonsense really LOUD, or OFTEN, has no magical power to turn nonsense into facts.

Nonsense remains nonsense.

,


.[/QUOT

IT WAS NOT A CHURCH MEETING IT WAS A DENOMINATIONAL CONFERENCE. STAY UP
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,654
1,887
113
The view of 1 speaker at a denominational meeting doesn't equal the view of all churches everywhere.


1. The views of 1 man at a denominational conference do not necessarily represent the views of EACH MEMBER of a denomination... you cannot know the views of each member unless you speak to each member.

2. Even if the views of 1 man DID represent the views of an entire denomination, his views cannot be applied to the other 37 MILLION churches that have nothing to do with him.



You cannot, in any way, support any of your conclusions.

You have some unbiblical opinions, and it seems like you're just grasping at straws to back them up with nonsense.


.
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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MATT. 24:5.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I Am Christ(Jesus is Lord) Him, Jesus speaking); and shall deceive many.

(Mote-Beam)...
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,654
1,887
113
MATT. 24:5.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I Am Christ(Jesus is Lord) Him, Jesus speaking); and shall deceive many.

(Mote-Beam)...
I think this verse really helps us to have some perspective.

Are all "ministers" going to be good ones?
No.
But God didn't want us to be SURPRISED by that, and fall away.
God made this clear; God told us in advance.
There WILL BE some wolves among the sheep.
Don't be surprised.

However, the fact that there are some bad leaders, or even false leaders, does nothing to diminish the existence, or the efficacy, of GOOD leaders.

The existence of bad leaders doesn't negate the existence of good leaders.

Therefore:
It should be expected that some people will go to a bad church, and perhaps have bad experiences.
This should be expected.
But this doesn't negate the existence of good churches, or our need for them.

..
.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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Logic & Nutters:

A. To KNOW what 37 million churches all think or do, you'd literally have to visit each one.
B. Even if you COULD visit each one, one of them could change their view the next day.

So when I say you "cannot" know what all the churches think or do, I do NOT mean it's "unlikely" for you to know.
I mean it is LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for you to know.

Therefore, when anyone says, "All churches think this" or "All churches do that", he is being irrational.
He is LITERALLY talking like a nutter.

..
Ahhhhh !! the voice of intelligence .
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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For us to say that God created man because HE is lonely , is simply saying that God in His present existence is incomplete and lacking.
I am of the opinion that for us to grasp the answers to such issues we must first settle in our hearts, to some degree, just how complete God is. If any of us believe God creates and changes at will in order to achieve completeness regarding His plan for man then" Houston we have a problem". As for me when I envision God I cannot look upon Him because of His brightness. He is Perfect from His beginning even until now. So now, when I look for answers concerning creation and mans part in this sympathy playing to all eternity, I remember that I am born into this Kingdom of His not because He was lonely but because of His decision to multiply Himself in this dispensation and magnify His presents, not only in this world, but in all other forms that are being played out in an existence We at this point are not allowed to see. Man has yet to grasp his place in this existence called the Kingdom of God ,and to also except as an offspring of The Creator and Blood Brother to the one who rescued us from eternal destruction, at the right time we will take our place with Him beside The Almighty who was, is, and is to come.

So as Paul says"let us finish this course always, bearing about in these bodies the dying of our Lord Jesus Christ, that we might obtain to the mark of the HIGH calling that is set for us. Remember always our work is finished. Where we go from here we go by FAITH.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
36,245
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Tennessee
For us to say that God created man because HE is lonely , is simply saying that God in His present existence is incomplete and lacking.
How does being lonely make one's existence incomplete? Does being hungry makes one's existence incomplete too?
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
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How does being lonely make one's existence incomplete? Does being hungry makes one's existence incomplete too?
How does being lonely make one's existence incomplete? Does being hungry makes one's existence incomplete too?
is just that, need.
GOD HAS NEVER BEEN HUNGRY ARE LONELY.
If anyone severs a God who is in any way incomplete let me introduce you to a God who I serve. There is
no shadow of turning in Him.
What ever you lack He has in abundance. How could I ever be secure,, if what I need the one from whom I seek my lack is lacking himself.

GODS ABUNDANCE IS INFENT IN EVERYTHING AND IN EVERY WAY. THERE IS NOT A GLIMER OF LACK IN HIM.
THIS IS NOT A TRUTH THAT SHOULD BRING YOU DESTRESS HOWEVER LET IT BE KNOWN GOD HIMSELF HAS DRAWN YOU INTO HIS BOSSOM WHERE EVERY THING YOU NEED HE HAS IN ABUNDANCE.

ALL THIS I SPEAK IN LOVE

There was a time in my life when I was very angry with God. Day after day I would demand that He show Himself or strike me dead.
I would raise my fist toward heaven and rail. I cant remember how long I shouted my anger toward Him. I do remember there has never been anyone ,and I do mean anyone , more determined to draw God out in the open than myself in this time.

In the end ,you can except it or leave it, He answered my challenge. This has been decades ago but even now as I write this its hard to see thru the tears as I try to express this one single touch by God in my life.
I love the fellowship of the Holy Spirit in my life. We spend all our days together. He is preparing me to achieve in death what I never could in life . Not to worry, this physical body has become burden to carrie around. Time is a servant to no man.