question those who do not believe Jesus is God

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TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#1
Romans 14

9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”


12 So each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Where is God in the texts on the last judgement?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,355
113
#2
The Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the SON

I saw the dead stand before God and the books were opened, and the dead were judge out of those things written in the books........

1+1=2
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#3
The Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the SON

I saw the dead stand before God and the books were opened, and the dead were judge out of those things written in the books........

1+1=2
that is true, but Romans 14 above is quoting Isaiah 45:23 where God the Father is speaking. Thus implies that Jesus is God since he is doing the judging.

Isa 45
21 Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.

22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.’


24 “Only in the Lord, it shall be said of me,
are righteousness and strength;
to him shall come and be ashamed,
all who were incensed against him.
25 In the Lord all the offspring of Israel
shall triumph and glory.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,355
113
#4
that is true, but Romans 14 above is quoting Isaiah 45:23 where God the Father is speaking. Thus implies that Jesus is God since he is doing the judging.

Isa 45
21 Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.

22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.’


24 “Only in the Lord, it shall be said of me,
are righteousness and strength;
to him shall come and be ashamed,
all who were incensed against him.
25 In the Lord all the offspring of Israel
shall triumph and glory.”
Sure.......all things were created by him and for him.....<---LET US make man in our image.....the bible has numerous truths that point to Christ as God.......I was just throwing the above out there as an example.......
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#5
that is true, but Romans 14 above is quoting Isaiah 45:23 where God the Father is speaking. Thus implies that Jesus is God since he is doing the judging.

Isa 45
21 Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.

22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
from my mouth has gone forth in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.’


24 “Only in the Lord, it shall be said of me,
are righteousness and strength;
to him shall come and be ashamed,
all who were incensed against him.
25 In the Lord all the offspring of Israel
shall triumph and glory.”
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Does this make Jesus God? Yes!

Does this make Jesus the Father? No!

Does this make Jesus the gift of the Holy Spirit? No!

1 of the translations of Yeshua Messiah, is Jehovah's SAVIOR!

Being an extension of Jehovah's MERCY, and, loving kindness, towards His "Wayward" people!

To becoming the "sacrificial lamb" come in flesh! :)
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
15,782
9,461
113
74
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#7
Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Does this make Jesus God? Yes!

Does this make Jesus the Father? No!

Does this make Jesus the gift of the Holy Spirit? No!

1 of the translations of Yeshua Messiah, is Jehovah's SAVIOR!

Being an extension of Jehovah's MERCY, and, loving kindness, towards His "Wayward" people!

To becoming the "sacrificial lamb" come in flesh! :)
The way I see it is you can't separate the Holy Spirit from Jesus or from the Father. In them dwells the HS in its fullness and that is what give them their unity. That makes them constantly in touch with each other with the same purpose.

We are tapped into this HS only in part so faith can fill in the rest. That involves learning God's word and applying it to our lives. It builds steadfastness or patience if you will. That in turn builds godly character. :):cool:;)
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#10
The way I see it is you can't separate the Holy Spirit from Jesus or from the Father. In them dwells the HS in its fullness and that is what give them their unity. That makes them constantly in touch with each other with the same purpose.

We are tapped into this HS only in part so faith can fill in the rest. That involves learning God's word and applying it to our lives. It builds steadfastness or patience if you will. That in turn builds godly character. :):cool:;)
where does it say the Holy Spirit indwells the Father? I have no doubt he indwells Jesus on earth. Where does it say He indwelled the Son before coming to earth?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#11
I believe Jesus is God. The question is addressed to those who do not. It is a good question to remember when you encounter JWs.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
15,782
9,461
113
74
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#12
where does it say the Holy Spirit indwells the Father? I have no doubt he indwells Jesus on earth. Where does it say He indwelled the Son before coming to earth?
John 14:15-20 "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."

Just how would He know all this unless He once had it? :cool::):eek:
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#13
I believe Jesus is God. The question is addressed to those who do not. It is a good question to remember when you encounter JWs.
What would say to them? do you think knowing that is a salvation requirement or is just believing Jesus is enough?
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,669
554
113
#14
Romans 14

9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”


12 So each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Where is God in the texts on the last judgement?
Jesus is God, which throws some people off for they know, or would think that God is bigger than a human, and would think how can God be outside Jesus and operating, but yet be in a human manifestation as Jesus.

King Solomon said the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God, so how can a human form be considered God in deity, when He is an omnipresent Spirit.

Which is why many people believe He is only a man, or a created god, demi-god.

The Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh, which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for He cannot be separated.

Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty spot where the Spirit is not at, and the Spirit does not have to move, for the Spirit is already there.

But the man Christ Jesus travels through the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there, which shows He can be an omnipresent Spirit, but be God in that human form.

The Bible says all judgment is given to the Son, the man Christ Jesus, for He is a human being that made it to heaven, so nobody has an excuse and has to measure up to Him.

The Bible says that the saints shall judge the world, and judge the angels, for they made it to heaven, so the world, and angels that did not make it have no excuse for their short coming.

God will say why could you not make it when it was possible to make it seeing my saints made it, and the angels that did not rebel are with me.

God is the judge of the world, which He is judging by His humanity, for if He was to judge according to His deity without a sinless man it would be unfair seeing we are flesh with the nature of it, and God is holy, so He is judging according to His humanity for we are human, and if He is judging by a sinless man then He will provide the benefit of having His Spirit, provided by that sinless man when He shed His blood to wash away our sins.

Jesus will judge as God through His humanity, for the man Christ is the standard of being right with God in all of His holy ways.
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
117
30
28
#15
Jesus is God, which throws some people off for they know, or would think that God is bigger than a human, and would think how can God be outside Jesus and operating, but yet be in a human manifestation as Jesus.

Especially when we read this:
John 20:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

If Jesus is God why did he tell Mary that he is ascending to "his God"?

BTW interestingly enough, he also tells Mary he is ascending to "his Father" and "Mary's Father". Does that make Jesus and Mary siblings?
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
117
30
28
#16
Jesus is God, which throws some people off for they know, or would think that God is bigger than a human, and would think how can God be outside Jesus and operating, but yet be in a human manifestation as Jesus.

King Solomon said the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God, so how can a human form be considered God in deity, when He is an omnipresent Spirit.

Which is why many people believe He is only a man, or a created god, demi-god.

The Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh, which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for He cannot be separated.

Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty spot where the Spirit is not at, and the Spirit does not have to move, for the Spirit is already there.

But the man Christ Jesus travels through the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there, which shows He can be an omnipresent Spirit, but be God in that human form.

The Bible says all judgment is given to the Son, the man Christ Jesus, for He is a human being that made it to heaven, so nobody has an excuse and has to measure up to Him.

The Bible says that the saints shall judge the world, and judge the angels, for they made it to heaven, so the world, and angels that did not make it have no excuse for their short coming.

God will say why could you not make it when it was possible to make it seeing my saints made it, and the angels that did not rebel are with me.

God is the judge of the world, which He is judging by His humanity, for if He was to judge according to His deity without a sinless man it would be unfair seeing we are flesh with the nature of it, and God is holy, so He is judging according to His humanity for we are human, and if He is judging by a sinless man then He will provide the benefit of having His Spirit, provided by that sinless man when He shed His blood to wash away our sins.

Jesus will judge as God through His humanity, for the man Christ is the standard of being right with God in all of His holy ways.
We are confused when we read this: Jesus is God, which throws some people off for they know, or would think that God is bigger than a human, and would think how can God be outside Jesus and operating, but yet be in a human manifestation as Jesus.

We are even more confused when we read this:
John 20:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

How is Jesus God, when he is telling Mary that he is ascending to "his God"?

Also as interesting, Jesus tells Mary that he is ascending to "his Father", and "your (Mary's) Father". It looks like Jesus and Mary have the same Father. Does that make Jesus and Mary siblings?
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
117
30
28
#17
Jesus is God, which throws some people off for they know, or would think that God is bigger than a human, and would think how can God be outside Jesus and operating, but yet be in a human manifestation as Jesus.

King Solomon said the heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain God, so how can a human form be considered God in deity, when He is an omnipresent Spirit.

Which is why many people believe He is only a man, or a created god, demi-god.

The Bible says that God was manifest in the flesh, which means God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for He cannot be separated.

Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty spot where the Spirit is not at, and the Spirit does not have to move, for the Spirit is already there.

But the man Christ Jesus travels through the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there, which shows He can be an omnipresent Spirit, but be God in that human form.

The Bible says all judgment is given to the Son, the man Christ Jesus, for He is a human being that made it to heaven, so nobody has an excuse and has to measure up to Him.

The Bible says that the saints shall judge the world, and judge the angels, for they made it to heaven, so the world, and angels that did not make it have no excuse for their short coming.

God will say why could you not make it when it was possible to make it seeing my saints made it, and the angels that did not rebel are with me.

God is the judge of the world, which He is judging by His humanity, for if He was to judge according to His deity without a sinless man it would be unfair seeing we are flesh with the nature of it, and God is holy, so He is judging according to His humanity for we are human, and if He is judging by a sinless man then He will provide the benefit of having His Spirit, provided by that sinless man when He shed His blood to wash away our sins.

Jesus will judge as God through His humanity, for the man Christ is the standard of being right with God in all of His holy ways.
I believe that Jesus does have his own personal spirit that move around with him. When he was on the cross, his last words were:
Luke 23:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The words "spirit" and "ghost" are the same thing. In any event, Jesus gave up his spirit. This same verbiage is given about 10 other times in the bible. For instance:
Genesis 25:8 Abraham gives up the ghost. (he died)
Genesis 35:29 Isaac gives up the ghost.
Genesis 49:33 Jacob gives up the ghost.
Mark 15:37 Jesus gives up the ghost.
Acts 5:5 Ananias gives up the ghost.

So I believe that all persons have a spirit that moves around with them. Even Jesus. Good discussion.
 

unclesilas

Active member
Feb 6, 2019
483
170
43
#18
What would say to them? do you think knowing that is a salvation requirement or is just believing Jesus is enough?
If it is a salvation requirement, how many ministers are guilty of not telling their flocks what savational requirement is?
 

Matthew55

Active member
Dec 29, 2018
117
30
28
#19
I believe Jesus is God. The question is addressed to those who do not. It is a good question to remember when you encounter JWs.
I believe Jesus is God, but is not God the Father, Jesus is God the Son.
 
K

KnowMe

Guest
#20
If it is a salvation requirement, how many ministers are guilty of not telling their flocks what savational requirement is?
Like wise what if it isn’t, then people are creating unnecessary confrontations.