Ray Comfort/John MacArthur teaches a false gospel

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C

Cup-of-Ruin

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#21
#21
watchmen said:
Not exactly remember the young rich man he chose not to follow Christ, the apostles choose to.
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It would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man (the rich young ruler who asked 'what do I need to do') to enter the realm of God.

Jesus simply pointed out to the Apostles that the rich young ruler had no possibility of entering the Kingdom.

It's not that it is neccessary to sell all you have, that is not the point, the point is that it was the very thing that was impossible for the rich young ruler to do, the rich young man made decision and was rejected.
 
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watchmen

Banned
#22
Apr 23, 2009
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#22
Cup-of-Ruin said:
It would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man (the rich young ruler who asked 'what do I need to do') to enter the realm of God.

Jesus simply pointed out to the Apostles that the rich young ruler had no possibility of entering the Kingdom.

It's not that it is neccessary to sell all you have, that is not the point, the point is that it was the very thing that was impossible for the rich young ruler to do, the rich young man made decision and was rejected.
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That is right he had a choice, and he made it. So do we all pointing that out to people is not evil.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

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#23
#23
watchmen said:
That is right he had a choice, and he made it. So do we all pointing that out to people is not evil.
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He had as much choice as a camel does deciding he would like to pass through the eye of a needle, which is no choice, because it is impossible, it is simply that some are not His sheep, the truth is not in them, they may have heard that Hevean and the Kingdom is good place to be and seeming they get what they want they might as well havce that as well, I mean why not, sound like a good deal, but the crux of the matter of salvation is that it is not the sinner who decides, that would mean that the sinner has a greater will then God, it is either God deciding or it is the sinner, it cannot be both. When Israel was in covenant, they agreed to certain conditions, it was a contractural relationship, Israel said at Mt Sinai; 'We agree to do this', that is Israel agreed to perform certain functions and obey certain laws. The amazing thing about being a Christian is that there is no obligation even a first confession is guided by and spoken by the holy spirit, it says, it not even us that speak and before the confession exists the conception and realization and this is the Word, the conception that comes from God and He has chosen, the sinner does nothing to qualify and once God has decided it is done, it cannot be undone - like I say it is a statement of fact, what does Jesus say to Peter and Andrew "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." - 'And they straightaway left their nets, and followed Him.'

See how its an order, a command, He says 'Follow Me', He is not asking whether Peter and Andrew would personally like to follow Him, I mean a complete stranger appears and in two words two brothers give up their families, their livelyhood, their homes, their property. Now i'm not saying that that is what is required to be a Christian, of course not, their were many wealthy men and women who became early diciples and did not give up anything, it's not about that, it is only if God commands it so. Peter and Andrew had no say in that matter of becoming Christian in fact Peter was not a beliver until after Christ's death, Peter denied Christ, yet forgiven and then given the eyes to see, poor Peter did not comprehend what He was dealing with He was dealing with God, Peter has no say in the matter, His belief is entirely dependant on the Christ. Like Paul says; that it is not even he, Paul that speaks and does anything good but it is Christ that does it. I just don't think that Ray and John have it right, I think they have it wrong. We can agree to disagree though.
 
J

Jezreel

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#24
#24
The word says, "where your treasure is, there is where your heart is". Jesus just knew that young man's heart and knew that he idolized his riches and Jesus knew what answer to give him that would humble the rich ruler's attitude. He went away sad because Christ knew his heart. The young ruler thought that Jesus was going to maybe pat him on the back.
 
loveschild

loveschild

Banned
#25
May 21, 2009
3,955
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#25
To be saved is a free gift from God by his blood. It goes on to say turn from your sins. If you don't go on and turn from your sins you are not a child of Gods. There are many right here who have hate for others. Unforgiveness to others. On and on. Have no love in their hearts and they never were Gods children. Turn from your sins if you want to go to heaven. If you don't you are throwing the free gift from God away. Repent!
 
DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#26
Jul 28, 2009
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#26
Cup-of-Ruin said:
It would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man (the rich young ruler who asked 'what do I need to do') to enter the realm of God.

Jesus simply pointed out to the Apostles that the rich young ruler had no possibility of entering the Kingdom.

It's not that it is neccessary to sell all you have, that is not the point, the point is that it was the very thing that was impossible for the rich young ruler to do, the rich young man made decision and was rejected.
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Cup, I'm surprised with your study of scripture that the word camel literally means a camel and isn't a term or mistranslation which means rough thread. Have you looked into that? Please look into it and get back to me.

Jesus did point out that for men it was impossible but that with God all things are possible. Pointing out that it is God, not man's choice from a hard heart that saves.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

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#27
#27
DinoDillinger said:
Cup, I'm surprised with your study of scripture that the word camel literally means a camel and isn't a term or mistranslation which means rough thread. Have you looked into that? Please look into it and get back to me.
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"Camel" literally means Camel, as in a a four legged hump on the back camel, now can that camel pass throught 'the eye of a needle'? obviously not, this rich young ruler was not going to be in the kingdom of God unless a camel can fit through the eye of a needle, which it cannot.

Jesus did point out that for men it was impossible but that with God all things are possible. Pointing out that it is God, not man's choice from a hard heart that saves.
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He also pointed out that some are not His sheep, He says there will be those on the left side outside the gates of the kingdom, and there is no choice on our part it is all His, that's the free gift, that's election, it's His choice and His decision, this is opposed to the gospel of Ray and John who preach that the individual sinner makes a personal decision for Christ and sticks to it by displaying certain approved displays and habits.
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L

Leilaii425

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#28
#28
Cup-of-Ruin said:
"Camel" literally means Camel, as in a a four legged hump on the back camel, now can that camel pass throught 'the eye of a needle'? obviously not, this rich young ruler was not going to be in the kingdom of God unless a camel can fit through the eye of a needle, which it cannot.



He also pointed out that some are not His sheep, He says there will be those on the left side outside the gates of the kingdom, and there is no choice on our part it is all His, that's the free gift, that's election, it's His choice and His decision, this is opposed to the gospel of Ray and John who preach that the individual sinner makes a personal decision for Christ and sticks to it by displaying certain approved displays and habits.
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as i told dillinger... Maybe the needle was really big, and the camel was really small..... ever think of that!
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DinoDillinger

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
#29
Jul 28, 2009
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#29
Did you research the old texts and find that out or just take it at its facial meaning?
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#33
Jan 8, 2009
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#33
I do believe the word camel may have been mistranslated from the word caramel.. it's an easy mistake to make.
 
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1joh39

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#34
#34
You all know... I have never seen so many teachers in one room! And the love shared here is just so heart-warming! I wonder what Jesus has to say on the matter! I will compare every person that writes here to Paul! Paul I believe knew what he was teaching, and i believe all here believe the same, now I am an outsider, and I look at all yea folk here! Paul had some gifts! Like a snake bit him and nothing happened! Also Paul raised a young man from his death. An many other things he did! Paul also wrote how when we recieve the Spirit, a certain gift comes with it! Yes this gift is free, and we are to serve (work with this gift) our fellow believers with this gift, please next time any of you write something, mention your gift... Here they are!
1 Cor 12....
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
See these gifts are WORKING! And it is a free labour as well! NOw the next time you post something give us some witness with you Spiritual gift you WORKED! And seved each other with. Because i see a lot of blind being led by other blind eyes! Will the real Jesus please Teach!

I am a sinner God does not hear me because He says he hears no sinner. But the ones that does His will, them He hears! John 9:31...
31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
And the next verse is His will.... His Son uttered these words, and He does know what He talks about, I believe Him!!!
Matthew 5:48...
48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
God's will not mine! Now go ask God why He is so unfair to ask this of us if He knows we will allways be sinners! Then come teach me in His Word how He is going to change a sinner like me to be a perfect man after He made me a saint.
Eph 4...
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Look the Apostles and Pastors teach saints to be perfected to perfect men, to the stature and fullness of His Son. HERE!!!! ON EARTH!!! That work is done here!! God made Paul and apostles to do the ministery HERE!!!!! not in afterlife! So we will be made to His Stature and fulness HERE!!! Praise this mighty God that can take a filthy sinner like me and regenerate me to the likeness of His Son! What a Powerful God we serve!!! Or do we???

 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

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#35
#35
1joh39 said:
I am a sinner God does not hear me because He says he hears no sinner. But the ones that does His will, them He hears! John 9:31...
31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
And the next verse is His will.... His Son uttered these words, and He does know what He talks about, I believe Him!!!
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Actually it was the blind man whom just recieved his sight who spoke this to the Jews, now just before

John 9:24 "Then again they (Jews) called the man that was blind and said unto him; 'Give God the praise: we know that this man (Jesus) is a sinner."

The Jews were calling Jesus Christ a sinner and a Sabbath breaker and were throwing any believers of Jesus out of the synagogues, the blind man states "Lord I believe", he was a believer and he defended Christ against the Jews who were charging the Lord with Sabbath breaking and calling Him a sinner.
 
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1joh39

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#36
#36
Morning Cup! I guess I want to just say why I believe God does not hear me, and if He does, He is not doing as I ask! One of two things is happening. God does not hear me at all, or He is playing hard to give! He does not play games, so the latter n=must be true! Not hearing and not giving can easely be explained in the Word. Paul had one prayer not given , but he still had it answered! God spoke verbally to him telling him why He is not going to give it to Paul! I do not get what is ask, not even answers to why I do not get it! And the answers I do get is in the Word, and here are all of them. I am a sinner and WE know God does not hear sinners. Then another one... James 4:3 3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Now this one I suspect is not so relevant to me as I have very little if none at all lusts left, only after His will I lust!
If it is a lust to be physically well, and rid of all sickness, then I guess I still lust! I have tongselities for twelve days now, the longest by nine days in my life! And I thought I am the better "Christian" now than I ever was before! Am I not as good as I can be? Did i not follow His leads out of many sin in my life if not all! You see i was far from his righteousness, a man with multiple sin. So i have to repent from let us say 400 sins, but did you know that the man with a single sin is just as far away from the saintship as me? He might get there before me, but untill he gets there we are equally.... un-saint!
So now I am far less sinner, but i am still ...un-saint... sinner! If i started with 400 and there is one left, i am still sinner! I will be saint if I laid down my last one, and He gives me forgiveness, and with the forgiveness, comes an extra bonus....Victory! The authority over that particular sin. And if He gives me authority over ALL sin in my life, He gave me authority over sin to the measure of His Son! Then i can say to a sick man...Stand up your sin is forgiven! and the people will also think Jesus is once again a blasphemer in my body, because the Victory I get is Jesus! And whatever this mouth i touch now, will ask it will recieve, because it is not me asking But He Himself in me!
Before that, this mouth will ask only one thing...."Lord, Jesus Christ, forgive me, I am sinner, please save me! Please! Let thou will be done in my body and life! Amen!" This is my prayer for four years now, and still, no answer! No giving, and no verbal answer! Except!!
Every night the visits from the Holy Spirit in my dreams, and visions... and the Good news...."SOON SON YOU GET TO KEEP IT!" Have i got it yet, who knows, maybe by the time you read this He might eventually give me what He has in store for me.... Everlasting Life! "May the Lord Christ Jesus, be in me, and I in Him! Amen!" Same prayer than the one above, to all who Know!
Or should i say to hell with all and God and just return to the evil adulterer, thief, liar, drinker, foul mouth, swindler, false witnesser and hater of all people that i was before?
 
S

Slepsog4

Guest
#37
#37
1joh39

You need to go read the Book of Job. Once a person has obeyed the gospel and is a child of God living a disciple's life, the Bible no longer calls him a sinner. He has died to sin and must no longer live in it.

That does not mean that we will not stumble on occasion. It means that that is no longer our direction or intent in this life.
 
C

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest
#38
#38
1joh39 said:
Morning Cup! I guess I want to just say why I believe God does not hear me, and if He does, He is not doing as I ask! One of two things is happening. God does not hear me at all, or He is playing hard to give! He does not play games, so the latter n=must be true! Not hearing and not giving can easely be explained in the Word. Paul had one prayer not given , but he still had it answered! God spoke verbally to him telling him why He is not going to give it to Paul! I do not get what is ask, not even answers to why I do not get it! And the answers I do get is in the Word, and here are all of them. I am a sinner and WE know God does not hear sinners. Then another one... James 4:3 3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Now this one I suspect is not so relevant to me as I have very little if none at all lusts left, only after His will I lust!
If it is a lust to be physically well, and rid of all sickness, then I guess I still lust! I have tongselities for twelve days now, the longest by nine days in my life! And I thought I am the better "Christian" now than I ever was before! Am I not as good as I can be? Did i not follow His leads out of many sin in my life if not all! You see i was far from his righteousness, a man with multiple sin. So i have to repent from let us say 400 sins, but did you know that the man with a single sin is just as far away from the saintship as me? He might get there before me, but untill he gets there we are equally.... un-saint!
So now I am far less sinner, but i am still ...un-saint... sinner! If i started with 400 and there is one left, i am still sinner! I will be saint if I laid down my last one, and He gives me forgiveness, and with the forgiveness, comes an extra bonus....Victory! The authority over that particular sin. And if He gives me authority over ALL sin in my life, He gave me authority over sin to the measure of His Son! Then i can say to a sick man...Stand up your sin is forgiven! and the people will also think Jesus is once again a blasphemer in my body, because the Victory I get is Jesus! And whatever this mouth i touch now, will ask it will recieve, because it is not me asking But He Himself in me!
Before that, this mouth will ask only one thing...."Lord, Jesus Christ, forgive me, I am sinner, please save me! Please! Let thou will be done in my body and life! Amen!" This is my prayer for four years now, and still, no answer! No giving, and no verbal answer! Except!!
Every night the visits from the Holy Spirit in my dreams, and visions... and the Good news...."SOON SON YOU GET TO KEEP IT!" Have i got it yet, who knows, maybe by the time you read this He might eventually give me what He has in store for me.... Everlasting Life! "May the Lord Christ Jesus, be in me, and I in Him! Amen!" Same prayer than the one above, to all who Know!
Or should i say to hell with all and God and just return to the evil adulterer, thief, liar, drinker, foul mouth, swindler, false witnesser and hater of all people that i was before?
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Greetings,

Has He not already changed you? I mean you are a believer, what else is necessary? "Lord, I believe" is sufficient and you don't even get to say that, the holy Spirit speaks it for you. Also God is not a personal rehab centre, what I mean is that you may be suprised as to what He thinks are the sins in your life, it's not always what we think, look at what He has changed and you will see that He is right, what is He trying to tell you? Are you presenting a list of personal problems and would like them solved so you can feel better about yourself and you will have the proof you need that God exists and your saved, because God has changed all you bad habits into good deeds to your satisfaction, you see you say Jesus hasn't answered, but it's not a magic wand that we wave over problem areas in our life, God deals out in truth, the way of truth, is a long and narrow path and there are few that find it, if God want's you to come into a certain truth it could be a long time before you even get what He is saying, you know its kind of difficult to understand when a holy divine God is trying to get a message to a fallen creature. But salvation is a different issue, you don't get your crown of life now, your like putting out your hands and saying 'can have my crown now, or at least a good look at it' and the Lord is saying "No your not getting anything now, in fact your going to get nothing, your going to lose your life"...

You know from what you said before, it sounds to me like you met the true God, He gave you less, but He gave you the truth!
 
W

watchmen

Banned
#39
Apr 23, 2009
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#39
Slepsog4 said:
1joh39

You need to go read the Book of Job. Once a person has obeyed the gospel and is a child of God living a disciple's life, the Bible no longer calls him a sinner. He has died to sin and must no longer live in it.

That does not mean that we will not stumble on occasion. It means that that is no longer our direction or intent in this life.
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This would be a good O.P. for another thread. Do you know how many ''christians'' still see themselves as sinners? It is truly disturbing, ''as a man thinks in his heart so is he''.
 
1

1joh39

Guest
#40
#40
Ok, let us do Job and sinners and Christians!Watchman, Cup and Slepslog, let us talk about Job, sinners and Christians. Let us use the Word to see the difference. Sometimes I think I am the only one that did read the book of Job! So I am going to start a new Thread named Job the Perfect! And we will see if Job was so perfect! I will show you what i discovered and how I felt as i read the Book of Job and you can ask and say what you will, as i have no doubt you would!
Under the Bible discussion forum i will Post Job the perfect!
 
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