(Refuting) The (Original Sin) Doctrine!!

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NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,466
1,142
113
#21
Excuse me, while I go back to "excuse city". :p
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,701
10,643
113
#22
The wages of sin is death. If not sinful, why do babies die?
indeed why does all flesh decay?

for what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
(Romans 8:3-4)
"in the likeness of sinful flesh"

are there two kinds of human flesh on earth, sinful and not? and was there any sin in Christ?
death entered the world through sin, yet His body saw no corruption. these things have an explanation ;)
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,868
650
113
#23
Many people in churches today especially the cultic denominations like the catholic church and the watch tower group think that people are born sinners and not only that but even think they have a sinful nature that they can nether eradicate and that all the can do is just (strive) along and hope for the best and if they sin weather wilfully or unwilfully they can just ask God for forgiveness each time and it will be ok. This is wats been taught in most churches 2day people.

Catholics think that babies are born sinners!! Its why they sprinkle babies with water, if that’s the case den why does jesus say in matt 18:3 you must become like a little child to enter into heaven, in other words babies are innocent.

How can a baby be a sinner? They barely have the capacity to even think let alone even move and yet their supposed have the understanding of wat sin is. Sin is not innate, its not done on impulse, sin is a choice acted out upon our free will.

Sin is a premeditated thing which also has to be thought out, its deciding to or not 2 do something iver way the person doing it has an understanding of wat their doing. Yes we have inherited the carnal nature and incorruptible flesh from our ancestors but that’s not a licence. Sin is a choice, we can always choose to or not to regardless of our canal nature!!

Jesus said to the adulterer (Go and sin no more) john 8:5-11 was he commanding the impossible? Not according 2 deu 30:11 my commandments are not far from you. Not according 2 1 corith 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability.

Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Our obligations nether exceed our abilities if so then It would be unfair for God to command something that we couldn’t achieve.


Couple of verses from excuses city that people like to use substantiate why they cant stop sinning. Pslam 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. and Psalm 58:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

First off dis is poetic literature. The word psalm means hymn or song and in many of the chapters ull see the word (salah) which means next verse of a hymn or next paragraph. Many of the poetic books like psalms, proverbs, ecclesiastes and sos!! Are full of pithy’s and imaginative text. meaning their not to be taken literally but as a general truth, or piece of wisdom.

Also jewish poems are different then say English poems. English poems are mainly about rhythm and rhyming. But jewish poems use wats called synthetic parallels which I can get into later.

Book of pslams was written by david at the most part at terrible times of his life. Like for instances this is the same person who got his best friend killed and then slept with
his wife, was punished by God and had his child die. And his best friend and even his own son wanted to kill him. Pslam 51:5 was written at a time where david had done a lot of backsliding, this was a time of sorrows and he was crying out 2 God for forgiveness.

So I don’t think this is a book that you wanna use for moral instruction and to formulate a doctrine from as opposed to a lot of the books in the NT they are more literal based.
Adam and Eve were created knowing God and having a relationship with Him.

It would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil unless an outside source tempted them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said they cannot eat of the tree for that is all she could know and think.

Then Satan tempted her saying they will be greater than their current position if they ate of the tree and she ate of the tree and sinned.

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam that she did not die and no harm came to her and he sinned.

Then they had a choice between good and evil and would have to make a choice to do right instead of only knowing to do right.

So all their offspring have a choice when they are born which Eve is the mother of all living.

We are not blamed for Adam and Eve's sin for that is their sin and everybody will be responsible for their own sin, so their sin does not come upon people that come after them.

So we are born innocent with no attached to ourselves which is why the Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones for they are protected spiritually when they are young and innocent, and not at the age of accountability yet.

We are born innocent with no sin on our record but we are born not knowing God, and with a choice, so we will do wrong before we do right and follow God in the truth.

So all have sinned, done the act, not born with it, and come short of the glory of God.

Original sin does not come upon babies for they are innocent and that is Adam and Eve's sin not their sin, but we are born with a choice, and do not know God, so everybody will do wrong before they do right and follow God in the truth.

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Babies are innocent with no sin on their record, and the Bible says their angels, and angels are only sent to those who are saved and forgiven of their sins, have no sin on their record.
 
Feb 20, 2019
121
35
28
#24
Other fake profile? Doesn’t it get old?[/Q
Adam and Eve were created knowing God and having a relationship with Him.

It would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil unless an outside source tempted them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said they cannot eat of the tree for that is all she could know and think.

Then Satan tempted her saying they will be greater than their current position if they ate of the tree and she ate of the tree and sinned.

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam that she did not die and no harm came to her and he sinned.

Then they had a choice between good and evil and would have to make a choice to do right instead of only knowing to do right.

So all their offspring have a choice when they are born which Eve is the mother of all living.

We are not blamed for Adam and Eve's sin for that is their sin and everybody will be responsible for their own sin, so their sin does not come upon people that come after them.

So we are born innocent with no attached to ourselves which is why the Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones for they are protected spiritually when they are young and innocent, and not at the age of accountability yet.

We are born innocent with no sin on our record but we are born not knowing God, and with a choice, so we will do wrong before we do right and follow God in the truth.

So all have sinned, done the act, not born with it, and come short of the glory of God.

Original sin does not come upon babies for they are innocent and that is Adam and Eve's sin not their sin, but we are born with a choice, and do not know God, so everybody will do wrong before they do right and follow God in the truth.

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Babies are innocent with no sin on their record, and the Bible says their angels, and angels are only sent to those who are saved and forgiven of their sins, have no sin on their record.
that's the whole point im trying 2 make bro! that's why im refuting the OS!! doctrine,
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,670
3,054
113
#26
Many people in churches today especially the cultic denominations like the catholic church and the watch tower group think that people are born sinners and not only that but even think they have a sinful nature that they can nether eradicate and that all the can do is just (strive) along and hope for the best and if they sin weather wilfully or unwilfully they can just ask God for forgiveness each time and it will be ok. This is wats been taught in most churches 2day people.

Catholics think that babies are born sinners!! Its why they sprinkle babies with water, if that’s the case den why does jesus say in matt 18:3 you must become like a little child to enter into heaven, in other words babies are innocent.

How can a baby be a sinner? They barely have the capacity to even think let alone even move and yet their supposed have the understanding of wat sin is. Sin is not innate, its not done on impulse, sin is a choice acted out upon our free will.

Sin is a premeditated thing which also has to be thought out, its deciding to or not 2 do something iver way the person doing it has an understanding of wat their doing. Yes we have inherited the carnal nature and incorruptible flesh from our ancestors but that’s not a licence. Sin is a choice, we can always choose to or not to regardless of our canal nature!!

Jesus said to the adulterer (Go and sin no more) john 8:5-11 was he commanding the impossible? Not according 2 deu 30:11 my commandments are not far from you. Not according 2 1 corith 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability.

Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Our obligations nether exceed our abilities if so then It would be unfair for God to command something that we couldn’t achieve.


Couple of verses from excuses city that people like to use substantiate why they cant stop sinning. Pslam 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. and Psalm 58:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

First off dis is poetic literature. The word psalm means hymn or song and in many of the chapters ull see the word (salah) which means next verse of a hymn or next paragraph. Many of the poetic books like psalms, proverbs, ecclesiastes and sos!! Are full of pithy’s and imaginative text. meaning their not to be taken literally but as a general truth, or piece of wisdom.

Also jewish poems are different then say English poems. English poems are mainly about rhythm and rhyming. But jewish poems use wats called synthetic parallels which I can get into later.

Book of pslams was written by david at the most part at terrible times of his life. Like for instances this is the same person who got his best friend killed and then slept with
his wife, was punished by God and had his child die. And his best friend and even his own son wanted to kill him. Pslam 51:5 was written at a time where david had done a lot of backsliding, this was a time of sorrows and he was crying out 2 God for forgiveness.

So I don’t think this is a book that you wanna use for moral instruction and to formulate a doctrine from as opposed to a lot of the books in the NT they are more literal based.
So Do you claim to be living a sinless life now SpiritDove05 ???
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,670
3,054
113
#28
yes!! its what the bible says to do, john 8:5-11 matt 5:48
The Bible declares that anyone who says they have no sin does not have the truth..

1 John 1: KJV
8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

You have been decieved or have decieved yourself..

Either way you do not have the truth..
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
113
#29
How can a baby be a sinner? They barely have the capacity to even think let alone even move and yet their supposed have the understanding of wat sin is. Sin is not innate, its not done on impulse, sin is a choice acted out upon our free will.
When a person is born into a body of death made up from the corrupted rudiments of this world . Aging, dying leading towards separation from the lifeless, spiritless flesh and blood, and the temporal spirits retuning to the Father of spirits.

Adam and Eve acted on their own will under the influence of a creature seen .Walking by sight they walked away from God not seen.

Free will to a Christian is to do the will of the father. Not to be in bondage to the things seen the temporal .That's the other avenue. The anti.. . . avenue . the father of the antichists (many)

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,526
113
#30
yes!! its what the bible says to do, john 8:5-11 matt 5:48
Yes, it is the goal of us defending that (God's word) that works in us to defend us.

But no man can keep them or guard them without error . That would make God the liar . And the conscience as a god. God is greater than our hearts or conscience. He knows all things before we ask. That is. If we ask?

If we say we are in need of none we will be released from the words of His mouth they will have no effect.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1 John 1:8-10

Not only have all sinned but all continue to fall short of the glory of the one God while leaving in these bodies of death . we have the treasure that he has revealed to us as the light within but its is not of us .

Like when the apostles were present and the father in heaven healed a man by hearing the gospel . Those who saw it not having the faith to believe the unseen understanding made the apostles into gods in the likeness of men . Blasphemy .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

In that way. If a person living in flesh and blood is breathing. He is reckoned as a sinner.

Its why the Son of man body must of been corruptible perishable. .This was in order to do what the letter of the law "death" could not do as a law of faith, law of creating anew .The father not seen and the Son seen working tother to estblish the goverment of peace. A loving authority, the father and and a submisiveed body the Son.

Flesh signified as sinful was needed to do what the letter could not.

The Son of man came to fulfill the theophany of a vision using Melchezedek . A vision could not perform the works of the flesh .Jesus was used to introduce the new kingdom of priest men and women from all the nations with their new tongues sending them out two by two preaching the gospel .

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

A body of sin was need to put away the wage of sin following the requirement of the letter of the law death, as to the end of the matter.

It does not mean Jesus sinned by doing his own will separate from the father..Just every other person that lived.

Sometimes the little words like and can slip on by.

Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and "come short" of the glory of God;
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#31
Many people in churches today especially the cultic denominations like the catholic church and the watch tower group think that people are born sinners and not only that but even think they have a sinful nature that they can nether eradicate and that all the can do is just (strive) along and hope for the best and if they sin weather wilfully or unwilfully they can just ask God for forgiveness each time and it will be ok. This is wats been taught in most churches 2day people.

Catholics think that babies are born sinners!! Its why they sprinkle babies with water, if that’s the case den why does jesus say in matt 18:3 you must become like a little child to enter into heaven, in other words babies are innocent.

How can a baby be a sinner? They barely have the capacity to even think let alone even move and yet their supposed have the understanding of wat sin is. Sin is not innate, its not done on impulse, sin is a choice acted out upon our free will.

Sin is a premeditated thing which also has to be thought out, its deciding to or not 2 do something iver way the person doing it has an understanding of wat their doing. Yes we have inherited the carnal nature and incorruptible flesh from our ancestors but that’s not a licence. Sin is a choice, we can always choose to or not to regardless of our canal nature!!

Jesus said to the adulterer (Go and sin no more) john 8:5-11 was he commanding the impossible? Not according 2 deu 30:11 my commandments are not far from you. Not according 2 1 corith 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability.

Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Our obligations nether exceed our abilities if so then It would be unfair for God to command something that we couldn’t achieve.


Couple of verses from excuses city that people like to use substantiate why they cant stop sinning. Pslam 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. and Psalm 58:3 Even from birth the wicked go astray;
from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.

First off dis is poetic literature. The word psalm means hymn or song and in many of the chapters ull see the word (salah) which means next verse of a hymn or next paragraph. Many of the poetic books like psalms, proverbs, ecclesiastes and sos!! Are full of pithy’s and imaginative text. meaning their not to be taken literally but as a general truth, or piece of wisdom.

Also jewish poems are different then say English poems. English poems are mainly about rhythm and rhyming. But jewish poems use wats called synthetic parallels which I can get into later.

Book of pslams was written by david at the most part at terrible times of his life. Like for instances this is the same person who got his best friend killed and then slept with
his wife, was punished by God and had his child die. And his best friend and even his own son wanted to kill him. Pslam 51:5 was written at a time where david had done a lot of backsliding, this was a time of sorrows and he was crying out 2 God for forgiveness.

So I don’t think this is a book that you wanna use for moral instruction and to formulate a doctrine from as opposed to a lot of the books in the NT they are more literal based.
Do you no longer sin?
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#32
actually, I have the impression you want us to listen to YOUR version of what you think is in scripture

you would truly have to ignore the scriptures already posted to believe we are born innocent

you would also have be more than a little ignorant of the Bible and the entire reason Jesus died on our behalf
This person starts these threads and then does not follow up in conversation with anyone.
They are a troll I think.
If you notice their second Post in this thread and their second Post in the last thread that they started is the same.
 
Feb 20, 2019
121
35
28
#34
Yes, it is the goal of us defending that (God's word) that works in us to defend us.

But no man can keep them or guard them without error . That would make God the liar . And the conscience as a god. God is greater than our hearts or conscience. He knows all things before we ask. That is. If we ask?

If we say we are in need of none we will be released from the words of His mouth they will have no effect.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.1 John 1:8-10

Not only have all sinned but all continue to fall short of the glory of the one God while leaving in these bodies of death . we have the treasure that he has revealed to us as the light within but its is not of us .

Like when the apostles were present and the father in heaven healed a man by hearing the gospel . Those who saw it not having the faith to believe the unseen understanding made the apostles into gods in the likeness of men . Blasphemy .

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

In that way. If a person living in flesh and blood is breathing. He is reckoned as a sinner.

Its why the Son of man body must of been corruptible perishable. .This was in order to do what the letter of the law "death" could not do as a law of faith, law of creating anew .The father not seen and the Son seen working tother to estblish the goverment of peace. A loving authority, the father and and a submisiveed body the Son.

Flesh signified as sinful was needed to do what the letter could not.

The Son of man came to fulfill the theophany of a vision using Melchezedek . A vision could not perform the works of the flesh .Jesus was used to introduce the new kingdom of priest men and women from all the nations with their new tongues sending them out two by two preaching the gospel .

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

A body of sin was need to put away the wage of sin following the requirement of the letter of the law death, as to the end of the matter.

It does not mean Jesus sinned by doing his own will separate from the father..Just every other person that lived.

Sometimes the little words like and can slip on by.

Romans 3:23For all have sinned, and "come short" of the glory of God;
the famous John 1:8-10 straw man!! how bout this "Go and sin no more"
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#36
that's right!! coz I value wat Christ did on the cross but i still hav 2 watch my step lest I fall 1 corith 10:12 heb 3:12
So you are telling me that you never commit any sin what so ever.
You never are angry at someone, and express it wrongly.
You never want anything that is not yours or that you don't have.
You never lie by commission or omission.
You never drive over the speed limit, because breaking the laws of man is also sin per the scriptures, obey every ordinance of man.
You use all your time perfectly wisely.
You never have fear, or act impatiently.
you never speak harshly. I have seen you use all caps in this forum which is the text equivalent of yelling.
you never have a little too much wine.
you never eat too much.
or look to long at a pretty woman.

i think you are a liar, and this is my scripture evidence.
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8‭-‬10 NASB

Here the writer is speaking to Christians saying, if "we" (we being Christians) say we have no sin, "we" ( said same Christians) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The truth is only in the Christian. And if you deny your sins as a professing Christian your not even a Christian, per the writer.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,385
4,814
113
#37
same to you!!

its not me they'd be ignoring??............. if that was 2 be true!! anyway how u know dat are u all knowing?

So why are we all of a sudden actin' like we frum the hood?! Do you think it's phunny to mock others?! I don'ts.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,385
4,814
113
#38
So you are telling me that you never commit any sin what so ever.
You never are angry at someone, and express it wrongly.
You never want anything that is not yours or that you don't have.
You never lie by commission or omission.
You never drive over the speed limit, because breaking the laws of man is also sin per the scriptures, obey every ordinance of man.
You use all your time perfectly wisely.
You never have fear, or act impatiently.
you never speak harshly. I have seen you use all caps in this forum which is the text equivalent of yelling.
you never have a little too much wine.
you never eat too much.
or look to long at a pretty woman.

i think you are a liar, and this is my scripture evidence.
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8‭-‬10 NASB

Here the writer is speaking to Christians saying, if "we" (we being Christians) say we have no sin, "we" ( said same Christians) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The truth is only in the Christian. And if you deny your sins as a professing Christian your not even a Christian, per the writer.

I think someone be trollin' ;)
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,466
1,142
113
#39
Grace doesn't give us a license to sin; rather it makes us keenly aware of how wretched sin is, and why Christ chose to humble Himself to the extend that He did.

(y)
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#40
I think someone be trollin' ;)
Yes, and like usual they are not good at it, and only show how lost they are. How little they know about scripture, and as mockers of Christians they are also mockers of God. They think they are funny while satan laughs at them for doing his bidding.