Repentance?

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Mar 23, 2016
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#21
All I ask was why is one sin ok and not the other? Is that simple enuff
Maybe I should have said some Christians that way it didn t include all.
Who says any sin is "ok"???

If someone is married and his or her spouse commits adultery, it is the adulterer who is in sin.

If the non-adulterer decides not to divorce his or her spouse, and the marriage remains intact, why would you describe that marriage as "wrong"? As long as there is no adultery going on and there has been repentance before God, why shouldn't the marriage remain intact?

And your question about why gay marriage is wrong is better answered through study of Scripture. Find out what God says about the matter, ask Him for guidance as to His whys and wherefores.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#22
Christians say they are saved and have Christ in there life until hard times come or decisions they make are what they want not what God wants.

Ask a Christian how do you repent of a sin? Stop sinning, turn to Gods way, they will say. Well I think that is an easy answer and the correct one.
This is what I don't understand!! Christians that get divorced for unbiblical reasons and marry some one else.
There are things in the bible that you can divorce for but I'm talking unbiblical reasons.
You ask that Christian how do you repent of an adulterous marriage? Well just ask God for forgiveness and repent and your ok. and stay married.

Know ask that same Christian the same question about gay marriage? The answer u get is they have to stop being married and not be married to another man. Why because the bible says its wrong and its sin so they have to seperate, repent and ask forgiveness and live a straight life.
Why does repentance and forgiveness in one case let you still live in sin? (Adulterous marriage)
They other says you have to stop and separate.
Divorce is wrong, adulterous marriage is wrong, gay marriage is wrong.
Why do christians have different standards for this?
It's a little more complicated regarding marital infidelity. A spouse who commits adultery can't just simply say their sorry and the marriage goes on. A man that loves his spouse would not even think about cheating on his wife let alone actually do it. Adultery destroys marriages. The marriage may indeed go on but it will never be intact. Once the marital trust is broken it is almost impossible to trust that person who committed adultery. If I were a wife and my husband cheated on me I would never trust him again. I may forgive him but it will be impossible to forget. Why would I want to stay married to someone who doesn't love me and treats me like trash. Makes absolutely no sense at all to me.
 

14RR

Junior Member
Mar 6, 2018
13
0
0
#23
Who says any sin is "ok"???

If someone is married and his or her spouse commits adultery, it is the adulterer who is in sin.

If the non-adulterer decides not to divorce his or her spouse, and the marriage remains intact, why would you describe that marriage as "wrong"? As long as there is no adultery going on and there has been repentance before God, why shouldn't the marriage remain intact?

And your question about why gay marriage is wrong is better answered through study of Scripture. Find out what God says about the matter, ask Him for guidance as to His whys and wherefores.
I agree with u on both and. I know why gay marriage is wrong. I read the bible all the time.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,827
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#24
All I ask was why is one sin ok and not the other? Is that simple enuff
Maybe I should have said some Christians that way it didn t include all.
Possibly no fault divorce has made it easier for everyone? And Hollywood has pushed romance on all of society in a way that's fairy tale, not real life. Marriage takes both to work at it. And maturity.

Homosexuals are not the norm. Against nature.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,125
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#25
14RR,

I think the reason you are getting the responses that you are getting is because you have exposed some hypocrisy. It has been my experience that when you pull a mask off that is hiding an ugly truth, you either get one of two responses: Remorseful confession or vicious attack. The latter is much easier to do when we have been caught covering up something.

Just my two cents. :)
As if it's just that black and white mate.

Perhaps a reader (like myself) felt as if the OP was lumping everyone together and thus challenged their perspective?
Like I did when I asked if they were speaking for all of us now.

You see many Christians coming on here ready to bag out the church, and I like to challenge them on their claims, make sense?
 

14RR

Junior Member
Mar 6, 2018
13
0
0
#26
As if it's just that black and white mate.

Perhaps a reader (like myself) felt as if the OP was lumping everyone together and thus challenged their perspective?
Like I did when I asked if they were speaking for all of us now.

You see many Christians coming on here ready to bag out the church, and I like to challenge them on their claims, make sense?
Let me black and white it.

You divorce for any reason other than what the bible says you can. You go out and get remarried and then justify your marriage as ok. You can't justify that kinda marriage in the bible. Seperate or reconcile is the only choice you have. But then you say repentance and forgiveness is all you have to do and you can live in that 2nd marriage. So repentance lets you live in a sinful marriage or it makes the marriage not sinful anymore.That is not what the bible says. To say it does is saying God's teaching on marriage is just a suggestion. The 2nd marriage is not even seen as a marriage in Gods eye. But the world says this kinda of marriage is ok. So you can't have one foot in the world one the other in Christ.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
83
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#27
Let me black and white it.

You divorce for any reason other than what the bible says you can. You go out and get remarried and then justify your marriage as ok. You can't justify that kinda marriage in the bible. Seperate or reconcile is the only choice you have. But then you say repentance and forgiveness is all you have to do and you can live in that 2nd marriage. So repentance lets you live in a sinful marriage or it makes the marriage not sinful anymore.That is not what the bible says. To say it does is saying God's teaching on marriage is just a suggestion. The 2nd marriage is not even seen as a marriage in Gods eye. But the world says this kinda of marriage is ok. So you can't have one foot in the world one the other in Christ.
Actually all you are doing is varnishing on another coat of grey...
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
1,266
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#28
This is a great question. See I got divorced because my husband, while married to me, moved in with a woman. I told him to come home, stop having an affair, and lets get counseling or I'm getting a divorce. He said get a divorce. So the next day I went down and failed, in one month we were divorced. "Christian" while I am in the clear, but I have always felt sorry for him, he has to admit he is the adulateur. He is the guilty; I do not know how he works it out with G-d or woman, for that matter but if he is of G-d now he works it out. But this I KNOW a homesexual couple are NEVER married in the EYES OF G-D. CHRISTIANS DON'T HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS G-D DOES!!!!!!
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#29
All I ask was why is one sin ok and not the other? Is that simple enuff
Maybe I should have said some Christians that way it didn t include all.
Works for me.

Marriage is sanctified by the Lord, right? So, the assumption walking into it is that it is something the Lord has given the couple.

Heterosexual couple, so even if someone commits adultery, they are not set free of the marriage. The act of adultery does not demand end-of-marriage. Even Jesus said that divorce was acceptable in that situation because of the hardness of man's heart. Not because that's what the Lord demands.

So what happens after adultery? Does the adulterer repent? (Note title of thread, and this was always about repentance. And, just so you know, that is why I kept not getting what you wanted to know.) If she/he does, then the Lord will forgive. If the spouse is born-again too, (which should be a given for a sanctified marriage, but isn't always), then there should be, ultimately, forgiveness too. And that ain't easy and doesn't happen over night, unless the Lord does a miracle.

But then something big was broken in that marriage. Trust. Trust has to be earned back. And, if it is over in the spouse's mind, there is no way of staying married. Both have to agree to stay together and no one can force anyone into staying together. So, with a heterosexual marriage, even adultery isn't just one issue. It's two issues -- the adultery itself and the trust. But, again, ultimately God sanctifies the marriage.

What is different between a heterosexual marriage and a homosexual marriage? God said clearly homosexuality is sin. He's never ever going to sanctify a homosexual marriage. It's not a real marriage, even if the government considers it one. It's not a real marriage, because God says it isn't.

And, you eluded to, in your OP, that all homosexuals have to do is abstain from sex. I disagree. Jesus said that even lusting is sin, so sin isn't merely action, but thought. Romans 1 says God gives sinners over to homosexuality because of the hardness of their hearts. God actually hardens their hearts more. So, what I would counsel a homosexual, once the person is born again would be to pray for the Lords help in softening their heart again, and good Christian counseling to learn how to live as a heterosexual. It is doable. I know of a ministry that helps people with all kinds of sexual sins, including homosexuality. (And including pornography and adultery, because, at least they get sexual sin is just that -- sin. It doesn't matter exactly which sexual sin is happening, it matters on how to stop it from happening for our sake and our love of the Lord.)

Sin is never okay.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#30
It's a little more complicated regarding marital infidelity. A spouse who commits adultery can't just simply say their sorry and the marriage goes on. A man that loves his spouse would not even think about cheating on his wife let alone actually do it. Adultery destroys marriages. The marriage may indeed go on but it will never be intact. Once the marital trust is broken it is almost impossible to trust that person who committed adultery. If I were a wife and my husband cheated on me I would never trust him again. I may forgive him but it will be impossible to forget. Why would I want to stay married to someone who doesn't love me and treats me like trash. Makes absolutely no sense at all to me.
Ah, but there's the rub. You keep paring this down to certain people and how they would react. You even managed to imagine being the wife.

Try this on for size. What if she cheated on you? (Okay, laughing a little, because even I can't imagine that knowing who your wife is.) OR, what if you had a momentary lapse in judgement and cheated on her? (Nuts. Laughing again. Except, the woman who sent me my teddy bear when I needed a good hug, was also madly in love with her husband of 33 years. A Young Turk flattered her enough to turn her head, and she did cheat on him, and the marriage was over. So, this is not completely beyond possibilities.) As much as the two of you love each other, would the marriage instantly be over?

And should it be?

Yes! Jesus told us it was okay to leave in the case of adultery. Did he command to?

Yes! It would be impossible for any one of us to trust again. It is also impossible for any one of us to raise ourselves from the dead too. Does that mean neither one can happen? Or does that mean the Lord would have to intervene to change that about us and our spouse?

You keep seeing adultery is an exit sign. I keep seeing it as in "What does God want me to do, and how will he strengthen me to do that?" And, it is not outside the realm of possibilities that he does want us to stay and he will soften our hearts enough to forgive. And he will soften the spouse's heart enough to remain trustworthy. And it is not outside the realm of possibilities that he can turn both spouses' hearts to trust again. It would take years, maybe decades. It might even be we never fully trust again. BUT that does NOT mean the marriage is over. The marriage is only over when the Lord says it is over!

How did Christian legalism come to trump God's will?

Think how hard this site is on that spouse who did have his/her spouse cheat years ago, but the Lord told them to stay married. All we ever see is Adultery = exit sign. It's bad. Very bad, but the Lord uses trials to shape his people. Sometimes I think the advice given on this site is the trial itself.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#31
Let me black and white it.

You divorce for any reason other than what the bible says you can. You go out and get remarried and then justify your marriage as ok. You can't justify that kinda marriage in the bible. Seperate or reconcile is the only choice you have. But then you say repentance and forgiveness is all you have to do and you can live in that 2nd marriage. So repentance lets you live in a sinful marriage or it makes the marriage not sinful anymore.That is not what the bible says. To say it does is saying God's teaching on marriage is just a suggestion. The 2nd marriage is not even seen as a marriage in Gods eye. But the world says this kinda of marriage is ok. So you can't have one foot in the world one the other in Christ.
Were you a virgin when you got married? Because the only people who are supposed to marry in the first place are virgins. Does that mean everyone else should stay single? Or, perhaps, repent and be forgiven changes that.

Were you born-again when you were married? Was she? Because we're also supposed to be equally yoked, and given that was said to people who already were born-again, then obviously that's the only way to be married too. Or, perhaps, after the ceremony, someone repented and was forgiven.

What have you repented of and were forgiven for? Are you expecting that to come back and slap you in the face because God didn't really mean repent and be forgiven?

No? Then why are you trying to slap everyone else in the face for our past sins?
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#33
This is a great question. See I got divorced because my husband, while married to me, moved in with a woman. I told him to come home, stop having an affair, and lets get counseling or I'm getting a divorce. He said get a divorce. So the next day I went down and failed, in one month we were divorced. "Christian" while I am in the clear, but I have always felt sorry for him, he has to admit he is the adulateur. He is the guilty; I do not know how he works it out with G-d or woman, for that matter but if he is of G-d now he works it out. But this I KNOW a homesexual couple are NEVER married in the EYES OF G-D. CHRISTIANS DON'T HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS G-D DOES!!!!!!
I'm not so sure I'd be proud of this story. Divorced in one month tells me that I never prayed or asked the Lord what he wanted me to do. I acted on emotions alone.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
171
0
#34
Christians say they are saved and have Christ in there life until hard times come or decisions they make are what they want not what God wants.

Ask a Christian how do you repent of a sin? Stop sinning, turn to Gods way, they will say. Well I think that is an easy answer and the correct one.
This is what I don't understand!! Christians that get divorced for unbiblical reasons and marry some one else.
There are things in the bible that you can divorce for but I'm talking unbiblical reasons.
You ask that Christian how do you repent of an adulterous marriage? Well just ask God for forgiveness and repent and your ok. and stay married.

Know ask that same Christian the same question about gay marriage? The answer u get is they have to stop being married and not be married to another man. Why because the bible says its wrong and its sin so they have to seperate, repent and ask forgiveness and live a straight life.
Why does repentance and forgiveness in one case let you still live in sin? (Adulterous marriage)
They other says you have to stop and separate.
Divorce is wrong, adulterous marriage is wrong, gay marriage is wrong.
Why do christians have different standards for this?
Several factors come into play in your question:

1) While we are definitely NOT in the role of deciding who this applies to, we know that not everyone who calls himself/herself Christian is in fact Christian.

2) Even true Christians make decisions that are outside of God's will.

3) Christians often understand the intent of any given scripture differently often based on the doctrinal teaching of their church on any given issue
 
Mar 23, 2016
1,815
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#35
And, you eluded to, in your OP, that all homosexuals have to do is abstain from sex. I disagree. Jesus said that even lusting is sin, so sin isn't merely action, but thought. Romans 1 says God gives sinners over to homosexuality because of the hardness of their hearts. God actually hardens their hearts more. So, what I would counsel a homosexual, once the person is born again would be to pray for the Lords help in softening their heart again, and good Christian counseling to learn how to live as a heterosexual. It is doable. I know of a ministry that helps people with all kinds of sexual sins, including homosexuality. (And including pornography and adultery, because, at least they get sexual sin is just that -- sin. It doesn't matter exactly which sexual sin is happening, it matters on how to stop it from happening for our sake and our love of the Lord.)

Sin is never okay.
I believe that we harden our hearts and God allows us to do that and walk further and further from Him.

Romans 1:26 says that God gave them up unto vile affections (vs 26).

One version (the NLT) renders this as God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Another (Contemporary English Version) says God let them follow their own evil desires.

To me, this whole section in Rom 1 (from vs 21 to the end of the chapter) describes those who fight against God's restraining Hand. God holds us to Him as long as He possibly can. But at some point, He loosens His hold on those who struggle against Him. Some continue in their path of destruction and end up further and further away from God.

We see God loosening His hold in Rom 1:

24 – God gives them up to uncleanness. They then dishonour their own bodies between themselves and change the truth of God into a lie, and worship and serve the creation more than the Creator.

26 – God gives them up to vile affections. Then the women and men change the natural use into that which is against nature, they burn in their lust toward one another.

28 – God gives them over to a reprobate mind because they think it is foolish to acknowledge God. At this point they are filled with all unrighteousness and engage in every act that results from their unrighteousness.

Interestingly, Rom 1:32 tells us that they know the judgment of God and they know those who do the things described in the verses deserve to die. Vs 32 further tells us that they continue to do these things anyway, and encourage others to do the same things.


For those of us who do not turn from God or fight / struggle against Him, He holds us close and brings us closer and closer to Him. Our relationship with Him becomes deeper and more constant as we learn to cling to Him.


As you point out, some homosexuals turn back to God. God then starts working in their lives to bring them close to Him. God wants us to turn to Him. He wants to wash us clean and have all spiritual blessings in heavenly places evidenced in our lives. So, so sad that some remain in bondage to sin.
 

14RR

Junior Member
Mar 6, 2018
13
0
0
#36
Were you a virgin when you got married? Because the only people who are supposed to marry in the first place are virgins. Does that mean everyone else should stay single? Or, perhaps, repent and be forgiven changes that.

Were you born-again when you were married? Was she? Because we're also supposed to be equally yoked, and given that was said to people who already were born-again, then obviously that's the only way to be married too. Or, perhaps, after the ceremony, someone repented and was forgiven.

What have you repented of and were forgiven for? Are you expecting that to come back and slap you in the face because God didn't really mean repent and be forgiven?

No? Then why are you trying to slap everyone else in the face for our past sins?
I don't know your past sins and never brought them up you did.
What is the deffination of repent?
How do you repent form drinking to much?stop drinking.
How do you repent from being gay? Stop being gay.
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#37
I believe that we harden our hearts and God allows us to do that and walk further and further from Him.

Romans 1:26 says that God gave them up unto vile affections (vs 26).

One version (the NLT) renders this as God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Another (Contemporary English Version) says God let them follow their own evil desires.

To me, this whole section in Rom 1 (from vs 21 to the end of the chapter) describes those who fight against God's restraining Hand. God holds us to Him as long as He possibly can. But at some point, He loosens His hold on those who struggle against Him. Some continue in their path of destruction and end up further and further away from God.

We see God loosening His hold in Rom 1:

24 – God gives them up to uncleanness. They then dishonour their own bodies between themselves and change the truth of God into a lie, and worship and serve the creation more than the Creator.

26 – God gives them up to vile affections. Then the women and men change the natural use into that which is against nature, they burn in their lust toward one another.

28 – God gives them over to a reprobate mind because they think it is foolish to acknowledge God. At this point they are filled with all unrighteousness and engage in every act that results from their unrighteousness.

Interestingly, Rom 1:32 tells us that they know the judgment of God and they know those who do the things described in the verses deserve to die. Vs 32 further tells us that they continue to do these things anyway, and encourage others to do the same things.


For those of us who do not turn from God or fight / struggle against Him, He holds us close and brings us closer and closer to Him. Our relationship with Him becomes deeper and more constant as we learn to cling to Him.


As you point out, some homosexuals turn back to God. God then starts working in their lives to bring them close to Him. God wants us to turn to Him. He wants to wash us clean and have all spiritual blessings in heavenly places evidenced in our lives. So, so sad that some remain in bondage to sin.
Ha! Gonna fake you out here. This is one of those areas where Reformed V. Not-Reformed gets tangled. aka the Who-Chose-Whom debate. So, this is one of those spots where I really can argue against what you believe, but I'm fine with we believe differently.

And you know me. I'm definitely not against arguing/debating, so if you want to get into this, how about a new post, so we don't derail 14's? And, if you're up for it, (and I really am game too -- loved to, actually, in a friendly kind of way), just know I'm usually not on this site at night, so you might want to give me a heads up if you do start a new post, and it disappears off the first page by tomorrow.

Can we agree that much, without having to agree on anything else about Romans 1 first?
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
5,077
559
113
#38
I don't know your past sins and never brought them up you did.
What is the deffination of repent?
How do you repent form drinking to much?stop drinking.
How do you repent from being gay? Stop being gay.
Yeh its they easy isn't it?
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#39
I don't know your past sins and never brought them up you did.
What is the deffination of repent?
How do you repent form drinking to much?stop drinking.
How do you repent from being gay? Stop being gay.
Repent = turn from. As in turn from pursuing that sin to turn to the Lord.

Which is also the how. Most of us really can't quit being an alcoholic, or a smoker, or homosexual. (Granted, there are those few annoying people that can, but I'm not one of them. lol) So in turning to the Lord, it's his strength that makes us become ex-alcoholics, ex-smokers, or ex-homosexuals. So the repent thing is definitely related to focusing on the Lord. He's our strength. Not our strength is our strength.

After all, if it was a simple as "just quit," then why don't we "just quit" being haughty, or gossipy, or checking out the opposite sex, or getting angry at the driver next to us, or the 1001 other kinds of sins we do that aren't lifestyle changes our addictions?

(Did that make sense?)
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
480
83
Philly, PA, USA
#40
Yeh its they easy isn't it?
Actually it was really easy for me to give up alcohol. The stuff tastes nasty, so decided early on that if I have to develop a taste for it, I just won't develop a taste for it. (Alas, had I just been smart enough to decide that two addictions before that decision. :rolleyes:)