Requirements of Salvation

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 3:21).
Context clearly shows that Peter is not discussing water baptism in this passage as anything more than "like figure" now if you look back at verse 18 you see "being made alive by the Spirit". Water does not and cannot save or wash away sin.

Noah and his family were not saved by water but by the ark. The water was the tool by which God judged the wicked men on the earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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I disagree and I explained why in post #161. You just don’t want to look at all the facts.
I noticed you didn't quote v. 24: "And Simon answered, 'Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.'" Are you claiming that Simon couldn't repent of his sin of thinking that the Gift of God could be obtained with money? Tell me, please, have you committed any sin since you believed and were baptized?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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It is sad that anyone would think that one's obedience to God's commands has anything to do with pride.
It’s sad that anyone would think that perverting the gospel by teaching salvation by works in opposition to God’s commands is obedience.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
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Context clearly shows that Peter is not discussing water baptism in this passage as anything more than "like figure" now if you look back at verse 18 you see "being made alive by the Spirit". Water does not and cannot save or wash away sin.

Noah and his family were not saved by water but by the ark. The water was the tool by which God judged the wicked men on the earth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
How do you read v. 20? "Eight souls were saved by water."
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I noticed you didn't quote v. 24: "And Simon answered, 'Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.'" Are you claiming that Simon couldn't repent of his sin of thinking that the Gift of God could be obtained with money? Tell me, please, have you committed any sin since you believed and were baptized?
This was not just some random sin. In verse 20, Peter made it clear to Simon, “your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.” Peter went on to tell Simon to repent of his wickedness and said he was poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. You call that saved? o_O

Verse 24 doesn’t change that and we see that Simon was fearful, but did it lead to repentance or was he only wanting to escape the consequences of his sin?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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But we still must obey Him, it is choice to do those works of obedience or not. Without them your faith is dead. Just as scripture tells us in James chapter 2. He will cast off unprofitable servants (Matthew 25:30). Thats why the lukewarm church in Revelation was warned they would be spewed out.
So if you think God’s sons can be cast into outer darkness, then you have another Gospel.

John 5:24 KJV
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


Romans 5:1-2 KJV
[1] Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: [2] By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


Galatians 1:8-9 KJV
[8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [9] As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

i won’t waste precious time debating with those gung ho eager to add their meager and tainted works to Christ Jesus perfect and acceptable work unto the Father.

Like I have explained Paul uses 4 chapter in Romans teaching how and why we are justified and then some internet theologians come along, take three or four verses out of James, and makes James contradict Paul. Disgusting
 
K

Kim82

Guest
I made this because there are people preaching in these final years of the world, teaching that
just by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ you can be saved. If it was that easy we wouldn't have scriptures
warning us that few will be saved and that the path to eternal life is narrow, of which few be there that find it.

A holy and sanctified life lived in strict obedience unto the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God,
the Holy Bible, is required of all those that seek the salvation of their souls. This is what the Bible is speaking
of when it says that we must be born again. Born again means to be transformed by God into a new moral life.

John 3:3 KJB
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except
a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

If all we had to do was simply believe, demons and the wicked heathen would be saved. For there are
innumerable people in this world that war against God and His saints and know the truth.

James 2:19
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

If all we had to do was believe then this verse below would have no meaning.

Matthew 7:14
"because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

We see from the verse below that they that do the will of God, that keep His commandments and precepts
taught in the word of God, the Holy Bible, will be saved. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ that He
is the true messiah, that He really is God in the flesh, is the absolute first step anyone must take on the
path of salvation. It is the first commandment of God we must obey, to simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
For why would anyone even begin to consider keeping His commandments and obey Him if you didn't believe He
was who He said He was.

Matthew 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the
will of my Father which is in heaven."

When it says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ it should always be accompanied with the explanation that
obedience, love and duty to and for Him is also required in this faith.

James 2:17
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

We see that faith (trust) in God is really false faith without doing the works of God. What works are these?
These works are the commandments and precepts taught in the word of God. For example, overcoming the world,
and the lusts there of, giving alms, preaching the truth of Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible, encouraging one another, loving one another,
honoring your parents, not hating anyone, not stealing, etc. These are just a few of the many holy commandments
given to us by God in the Holy Bible.

1 John 2:17
"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."

If the entire Bible could be summed up in one verse I would choose the following.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Understanding faith and grace.
Faith means to have trust and hope in God.
Grace means the favor of God.
To have faith (trust) in God you must have a good conscious toward Him.
To have a good conscious toward God you must obey Him.
Faith and obedience go hand in hand.
If you are obedient to God's commandments and precepts He will give you true faith, real trust in Him.
He will show you that you can trust in Him by the protection of His Spirit (the Holy Spirit).
Grace and obedience also go hand in hand.
If you are obedient, the grace (favor) of God will be upon you and all that you do.

1 Peter 3:21
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the
filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

The above verse is not saying that baptism literally saves us. It is saying that by being baptized
you are keeping God's commandment which will allow you to begin to have a good conscience towards
God because of your obedience. Just as believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is a commandment, so also is baptism.
Continue seeking God's will in all that you do to continue with a good conscience toward God.

If you want to be saved from the damnation of Hell, get in the word of God,
start in the New Testament at the gospel of
Matthew, in a King James Bible (PDF above) and
read every word and do exactly as God's word teaches you.
We are saved only by the grace of God. We do good works not to earn salvation, but because we are born again and we want to do whats right to please our Maker.

Not everyone is on the same page. Some bear more fruit than others at different times in their life. Its a process that will last while we are on earth, and in the end God will perfect all of us who have put our hope in Him.

None is perfect at obeying God's law. If that were possible, there would be no need for Jesus to die on the cross for our sins.

1John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Romans 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Galations 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh
 

BlessedCreator

Active member
Apr 22, 2020
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We are saved only by the grace of God. We do good works not to earn salvation, but because we are born again and we want to do whats right to please our Maker.

Not everyone is on the same page. Some bear more fruit than others at different times in their life. Its a process that will last while we are on earth, and in the end God will perfect all of us who have put our hope in Him.

None is perfect at obeying God's law. If that were possible, there would be no need for Jesus to die on the cross for our sins.

1John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Romans 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Galations 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh

The grace of God means the favor of God. We only have the favor of God because obey Him. Even the commandment to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" is a work of obedience that opens us to the beginning of our faith (trust) in God. That is why it is said in Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

Christians are not under the law or 10 commandments given to Moses.

I'm not saying I am without sin. But I do my best to obey God every second of every day so I can have a good conscience toward Him (1 Peter 3:21).
Without a good conscious toward God you can't trust Him, you can say you can but really you can't because we are told in James 2:26 that faith without works is dead. The works are simply obeying His commandments and precepts. Not any righteous acts or act of our own design, but His will, as taught in the Holy Bible. "He that doeth the will of God abideth forever" (1 John 2:17).

You quote Galatians 3:2-3 but that is speaking of the law of Moses, of which Christians are not under the law.

Romans 6:14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. "

We are under the grace (favor) of God. How can you expect to have his favor if you live contrary to Him.
The Holy One will not abide in the unholy.

Why do you think Jesus warns us that unprofitable servants, hypocrites and the lukewarm will perish?
And why do you think we are warned in Matthew 7:13-14
"13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Because so many people think they can live however they want, doing whatever they want, pleasing their carnal minds and the flesh.
They think that just believing will save them.

James 2:19 KJB "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. "

I suggest reading all of James chapter 2.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I know many people think differently. However, the word will always be the ultimate authority. The instructions given on the Day of Pentecost must not be discounted.

James 2:18-20
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Yep, you are one that focus more on James, as well as what Jesus said in the 4 gospels, in order to form a doctrine that salvation is faith and works.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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from Paul himself...
1 Corinthians 10:6 KJV
[6] Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

2 Timothy 3:16 KJV
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I agree with you, I have already stated that the OT is very useful for us in the Body of Christ, as long as you recognize it is not written to you.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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No, Jesus did not lie. He said all who believe on Him SHALL be saved. When those who believe Him do what He says they will be saved.

Did Jesus lie when He stated that those who believe and are baptized will be saved? No. There is no contradiction between Jesus' statements. True belief in the entire gospel message will prompt one to be buried with Jesus in baptism because He commanded it. (Matt 28:19, Mark 16:16, John 3:3-5)
Those who use John 3:16 as salvation doctrine usually ignore the point that Jesus was only sent to the house of Israel during that period.

When you are instructing the Jews on salvation then, it is taken for granted that the Law of Moses must be kept. It will be redundant for Jesus to keep reminding them "Oh, by the way, do remember to keep the Law of Moses".
 
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Kim82

Guest
I'm not saying I am without sin. But I do my best to obey God every second of every day
This is not good enough. You have failed.

If you break one, you break them all.

James 2:10 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You can't earn God's favour/Grace. If that were possible it would not be called grace/favour.

Romans 4: Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
 

BlessedCreator

Active member
Apr 22, 2020
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This is not good enough. You have failed.

If you break one, you break them all.

James 2:10 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

You can't earn God's favour/Grace. If that were possible it would not be called grace/favour.

Romans 4: Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered.
8 “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

No it is good enough if I continue in a good conscience toward God. If you sin, repent. We are to shine brighter and brighter till the last day.

If you don't have to obey God, Jesus wouldn't have warned us the hypocrites, lukewarm and unprofitable servants will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Corrupted Bibles and doctrines of salvation are two different subjects. You can have a KJB reader preaching doctrines of demons.

We are saved through faith. Faith means to have trust/confidence in God. To have trust in God you must have a good conscience toward God (1 Peter 3:21). To have a good conscience towards God you must obey Him (His commandments & precepts taught in the Holy Bible).

"he that doeth the will of God abideth forever" - 1 John 2:17
That takes you so many things to a simple trust as a child that you can do nothing but to accept God's provision though Christ. Actually, that good conscience toward God is by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. and that has nothing to do with obeying him...
 

BlessedCreator

Active member
Apr 22, 2020
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No it actually does have to do with obeying Him. Do you think I would have a good conscience toward God if I started fornicating, doing drugs and murdering people?

This is why God warns us that unprofitable servants, the lukewarm, hypocrites and all they that commit iniquity will be cast out.

2 Thessalonians 2:12 KJB
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

If you think you can live a life of sin (disobedience), doing whatever you want, and still be saved. You're going to end up in hell.

Matthew 7:13-14 KJB
"13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
 
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Kim82

Guest
If you don't have to obey God, Jesus wouldn't have warned us the hypocrites, lukewarm and unprofitable servants will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
Have you successfully obeyed all the commandments of God?
 

BlessedCreator

Active member
Apr 22, 2020
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Have you successfully obeyed all the commandments of God?
I do my best to obey God so that I have a good conscience toward God.

We're under the new covenant in Christ. We are not under the law. The commandments are those taught namely in the NT.
Do you know what those commandments are?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Have you successfully obeyed all the commandments of God?
I think his point is that, so long as you try your best, and use 1 John 1:9 whenever you fail, that is the way a Christian should live to ensure he "stays saved".
 
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Kim82

Guest
We are to obey God but not as if our salvation is dependent on it.

Because if our salvation were dependent on our works then we would need to be perfect.

"Doing your best" is only a valid argument for those who are under grace. Not for those who believe they are saved through works.