Requirements of Salvation

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,816
3,012
113
#41
I already explained to you that it’s a work of righteousness. Now why don’t you answer my questions instead of playing bad lawyer.
Hello mailmandan, :love:

I'd probably refer to "water baptism" as a "work of faith" instead of a "work of righteousness" - although it can be called either......I just personally prefer "work of faith."

Water baptism as a "work of righteousness" has already been done and recorded in the body of Yeshua/Jesus Christ for us when John the Baptist water baptized Yeshua/Jesus in the Jordan River. When we receive Christ as Savior, we receive His Water Baptism in the Jordan River as our "work of righteousness."

When we get Water Baptized, it is a "work of faith" - evidence that we have repented from all our sins, believe and have received Jesus Christ as our Lord, Savior and King because Faith without Works is dead.

Works of Faith are works that prove our faith in Christ, and are NOT to be confused with "works required for salvation or to maintain salvation". - Yeshua/Jesus Christ did ALL "works of righteousness" required for us for salvation - there are NO MORE "works of righteousness" for us to do for salvation.

The works we do now as believers are "works of faith" that promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth.

So again, I personally think water baptism is a "work of faith," but we could disagree - and it really wouldn't matter......God still loves us and we're still and forever saved, loved and accepted in the Beloved.

Your posts are always a joy to read - they inspire me and cause me to go deeper and higher in the scriptures! Thank you! :love:(y)
 
Apr 22, 2020
105
48
28
#42
Works of faith or works of righteousness, whatever you want to call them or what you think about them, they are required to enter the kingdom of God. For Jesus Himself tells us the unprofitable servants, the lukewarm and the hypocrites will be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"He that doeth the will of God abideth forever"
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,834
626
113
#43
2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

A big problem, especially in today's world, is that a lot of people do not repent correctly when they first accept Christ.

There is a difference between being sorry, and repenting of sins.

Repenting of sins means to turn away from sin.

A person that truly repents of their sins will have a change in their life to where they want to act Christlike.

Which many do not turn away from sin, and they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, and are ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Which they hold unto sin and believe they still have salvation.

Which many Churches do not address this issue, and have a relaxed attitude concerning the importance of being led of the Spirit, and being like Christ as essential.

Which some say they cannot abstain from sins, and they sin daily, but the Bible says if a person hates sin, and does not want sin, by the Spirit they can abstain from sin, and God will not allow the to be temped above what they can handle, and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.

Which God said turn away from these type of people for they cause the ministry to be blamed as the world says hypocrites because they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, and enjoy things of the world when the world knows that they should act like Christ if they claim Him.

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Saying you are sorry is not the same as repenting.

Saying you are sorry for your sins, but not repenting, turning away sins, does not wash away your sins.

The world can be sorry for their sins but it works death, for they do not repent of their sins, but keep on sinning.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

But godly sorrow repents of sins, and turns from sins, and has a change in their life by the Spirit.

But if a person did not repent correctly, and hold unto sins they can correct it.

The Spirit will not lead anybody that does not hate sin, and does not want sin.

And when a person is saved, and received the Spirit, they might sin, but they will have the right attitude and get rid of it, and keep moving forward in the Spirit.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Those that did not repent correctly will hold unto sin and believe they have salvation, but then the blood of Christ cannot wash away the sin.

If you are going to sin, which you should not, have the right attitude that you must get rid of it, and not hold unto it.

But you will not receive the Spirit until you truly have the attitude that you do not want sin and mean it.

And with all the hypocrites that are enjoying the world, which the Bible tells us there would be a lot of hypocrites at this time, then many Churches are not preaching what God requires of them, so it is an important issue because many people are not getting off on the right foot when claiming Christ.

But even in Churches that preach the truth there still might be hypocrites, but in a Church that preaches holiness, and the truth, the hypocrites would be reduced, and if they do sin it will be less frequent, and toned down overall, and they would have the right attitude to get rid of the sin, and move forward.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

But some that have received the Spirit endured for a while, and then went back to enjoying sins, and was not right with God.

But this can be corrected if they repent, and get rid of their sins, not wanting sins, then the Spirit will lead them again.

Many people do not go on to receive the Spirit for they did not repent of their sins, but was only sorry for their sins like the world, but did not have godly sorrow.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,523
113
#44
Because His blood, too, is required for salvation.
He shed His blood because only blood can atone for sin. Water provides no atonement. The blood of Christ is wholly sufficient to atone for sin and give us the promise of eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,965
10,757
113
55
#45
Hello mailmandan, :love:

I'd probably refer to "water baptism" as a "work of faith" instead of a "work of righteousness" - although it can be called either......I just personally prefer "work of faith."

Water baptism as a "work of righteousness" has already been done and recorded in the body of Yeshua/Jesus Christ for us when John the Baptist water baptized Yeshua/Jesus in the Jordan River. When we receive Christ as Savior, we receive His Water Baptism in the Jordan River as our "work of righteousness."

When we get Water Baptized, it is a "work of faith" - evidence that we have repented from all our sins, believe and have received Jesus Christ as our Lord, Savior and King because Faith without Works is dead.

Works of Faith are works that prove our faith in Christ, and are NOT to be confused with "works required for salvation or to maintain salvation". - Yeshua/Jesus Christ did ALL "works of righteousness" required for us for salvation - there are NO MORE "works of righteousness" for us to do for salvation.

The works we do now as believers are "works of faith" that promote the Kingdom of God in the Earth.

So again, I personally think water baptism is a "work of faith," but we could disagree - and it really wouldn't matter......God still loves us and we're still and forever saved, loved and accepted in the Beloved.

Your posts are always a joy to read - they inspire me and cause me to go deeper and higher in the scriptures! Thank you! :love:(y)
Thank you for your encouraging words. :) I have no problem calling baptism a "work of faith" or work done "out of" faith, as all good works would be. I also don't have a problem calling baptism a work of righteousness, in which Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. So getting water baptized would be a "work of righteousness" (work done in righteousness) and in Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. These works don't make us righteous, but are done from a righteous standing with God by faith. (Romans 4:5-6)
 
Mar 14, 2011
75,546
17,255
113
#46
Thank you for your encouraging words. :) I have no problem calling baptism a "work of faith" or work done "out of" faith, as all good works would be. I also don't have a problem calling baptism a work of righteousness, in which Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. So getting water baptized would be a "work of righteousness" (work done in righteousness) and in Titus 3:5, we read that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. These works don't make us righteous, but are done from a righteous standing with God by faith. (Romans 4:5-6)
Water baptism is a work of righteousness amen

sadly it can be an act done in sin also
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,011
340
83
#48
Were their sins washed away before being baptized in water?

Then a certain Ananias—a devout man according to the Torah, well spoken of by all the Jewish people living there—came to me. Standing before me, he said to me, ‘Brother Saul, look up!’ In that very moment, I looked and saw him! “And he said, ‘The God of our fathers handpicked you to know His will—to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. For you will be a witness for Him to all people of what you have seen and heard. Now why are you waiting? Get up and be immersed, and wash away your sins, calling on His Name.’ (Acts 22:12-16 TLV)

Hi,
1st thought, parsing the last vs you provided: Quote"Get up and be immersed, and wash away your sins, calling on His Name".
(NOTE: Clean yourself up in preparation to meet the Lord. Call on His name to have you sins washed away.)

Ceremonial water purification rituals/ablutions/full mikveh = baptism. Examples:

Priestly duties required many purifying mikveh/baptism types to perform various ablutions in their services; see Ex 39:4; Ex 30:19-21; Ex 40:12; Lev 6:27; Lev 13:54, Lev 13:58; Lev 14:8-9; Levs 15:16; Lev 16:4, Lev 16:24; Lev 22:6.

ABLUTION - JewishEncyclopedia.com jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/338-ablution
There are three kinds of Ablution recognized in biblical and rabbinical law: (1) Washing of the hands, (2) washing of the hands and feet, and (3) immersion of the whole body in water.

Tvilah/Mikveh: Forerunner of baptism today
Jewish water purification rituals/ablutions. Ceremonial acts of washing parts of the body or sacred containers. Mosaic law mandated many ceremonial water purification rituals/ablutions

Jacob receives Purifying/preparation instructions before meeting the Lord at the alter.(Gen 35:1-2
(NOTE: Jacob was to PREPARE/PURIFY/wash-up & change his cloths before meeting the Lord at the alter)

The Lord gives Moses Purifying/preparation instructions before meeting the Lord (Ex 19:10).
(NOTE: In preparation of meeting me, have the people clean & ready to meet me)

Ex 19:14 (NOTE: Moses carries out the Lords Purifying/preparation instructions)

John was sent baptise = PREPARE the people to meet the Lord

John's repeated stated purpose: PREPARE the way for the people to meet Lord: Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:2, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4.

Acts 19:4 Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to Jews only, to preach the BAPTISM of REPENTANCE. That they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.)

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the Baptism of Repentance to All the People of ISRAEL. To Prepare the way for the coming LORD. Isa 40:3, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4. Through whom remission/pardon/forgiveness of sin would be realized)

KJV Dictionary Definition - REMISSION: Forgiveness; Pardon; that is, the giving up of the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
(NOTE: Without Christ's shed blood there is NO Remission/Pardon for sins.)

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: It's faith placed in Christ's sinless shed blood that provides the Pardon/Remission for sins. NOT the act of water baptism)

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(NOTE: Forgiveness of sins are realized thru Christ's sin atoning sacrifice)

Baptized twice! Once by John/in preparation to meet the Lord

And a 2nd time: In Jesus Name for the remission/forgiveness/pardon from sin.

Acts 19:
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John is sent to preach the baptism of repentance. To PREPARE the people to believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Through whom the remission/pardon of sin would be realized)

5 On hearing this they were baptized [again, this time] in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(NOTE: Baptized 1st by John pre-sin payment in preparation to meet Jesus & Baptized again post-sin payment in Jesus name for the remission/pardon of sin)

Amplified Bible
Acts 19:
4 Paul said, “John performed a baptism of repentance, continually telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, [to confidently accept and joyfully believe] in Jesus [the Messiah and Savior].
(NOTE: The parenthetical emphasis in vrs 4 & 5 are placed by the Amplified Bible & not my own)

5 After hearing this, they were baptized [again, this time] in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(NOTE: Baptized 1st by John pre-sin payment in preparation to meet Jesus & Baptized again post-sin payment in Jesus name for the remission/pardon of sin)

Youngs Literal
Acts 19:
4 And Paul said, `John, indeed, did baptize with a baptism of reformation, saying to the people that in him who is coming after him they should believe -- that is, in the Christ -- Jesus;'

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus
(NOTE: They had been Baptized 1st by John, pre-sin payment in preparation to meet Jesus & Baptized again post-sin payment in Jesus name for the remission/pardon of sin)

Water baptism doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, repentance doesn't remiss/pardon sin, obedience doesn't remiss/pardon sin, sabbath observance doesn't remiss/pardon sin, tithing doesn't remiss/pardon sin etc.

1 Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(NOTE: It's the blood of Jesus Christ his Son washes us from all sin)

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(NOTE: It's Christ who loved us that washes us from our sins in his own blood)

NOTE: There's only ONE thing that can wash sin's stain off a soul. The sinless shed blood of Christ!

Faith & Faith alone, placed in Christ's finished sin redemptive work found in Jesus death (sins required wage PAID) burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (the Father's receipt, payment received & accepted). Is the only way anyone's sins are remissed/pardoned/forgiven! All the credit, glory, praise & honor belong, to our great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ!
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
468
262
63
#50
I already explained to you that it’s a work of righteousness. Now why don’t you answer my questions instead of playing bad lawyer.
Titus 3 may help:

Remind the people to be submitted to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to slander no one, without fighting, gentle, showing every courtesy to all people. For we also once were foolish, disobedient, deluded, enslaved to various desires and pleasures, spending our lives in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared—not by deeds of righteousness which we had done ourselves, but because of His mercy—He saved us through the mikveh of rebirth and renewing of the Ruach ha-Kodesh, whom He abundantly poured out on us through Messiah Yeshua our Savior, so that being set right by His grace, we might become heirs with the confident hope of eternal life! Trustworthy is the saying, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have put their trust in God may be careful to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are good and beneficial for people. But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about Torah, for they are unprofitable and useless. Dismiss a quarrelsome person after a first and second warning, knowing that such a person is twisted and is sinning—he is self-condemned.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
468
262
63
#51
1. Firstly Paul stated the conditions for salvation very clearly (Acts 20:20,21):
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

2. Secondly, Jesus, Peter, and all the apostles commanded Christian baptism for those who had already repented and been converted, not for salvation but for sanctification. The proper order is shown in Acts 8 and 10.

ACTS 8:36,37 (NOTE: VERSE 37 HAS BEEN EXPUNGED FROM MODERN BIBLES)
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

ACTS 10:46-48
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Yeshua answered, "Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5 TLV).
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
468
262
63
#52
He shed His blood because only blood can atone for sin. Water provides no atonement. The blood of Christ is wholly sufficient to atone for sin and give us the promise of eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yeshua answered, "Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5 TLV).
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
468
262
63
#53
Hi,
1st thought, parsing the last vs you provided: Quote"Get up and be immersed, and wash away your sins, calling on His Name".
(NOTE: Clean yourself up in preparation to meet the Lord. Call on His name to have you sins washed away.)

Ceremonial water purification rituals/ablutions/full mikveh = baptism. Examples:

Priestly duties required many purifying mikveh/baptism types to perform various ablutions in their services; see Ex 39:4; Ex 30:19-21; Ex 40:12; Lev 6:27; Lev 13:54, Lev 13:58; Lev 14:8-9; Levs 15:16; Lev 16:4, Lev 16:24; Lev 22:6.

ABLUTION - JewishEncyclopedia.com jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/338-ablution
There are three kinds of Ablution recognized in biblical and rabbinical law: (1) Washing of the hands, (2) washing of the hands and feet, and (3) immersion of the whole body in water.

Tvilah/Mikveh: Forerunner of baptism today
Jewish water purification rituals/ablutions. Ceremonial acts of washing parts of the body or sacred containers. Mosaic law mandated many ceremonial water purification rituals/ablutions

Jacob receives Purifying/preparation instructions before meeting the Lord at the alter.(Gen 35:1-2
(NOTE: Jacob was to PREPARE/PURIFY/wash-up & change his cloths before meeting the Lord at the alter)

The Lord gives Moses Purifying/preparation instructions before meeting the Lord (Ex 19:10).
(NOTE: In preparation of meeting me, have the people clean & ready to meet me)

Ex 19:14 (NOTE: Moses carries out the Lords Purifying/preparation instructions)

John was sent baptise = PREPARE the people to meet the Lord

John's repeated stated purpose: PREPARE the way for the people to meet Lord: Mal 3:1, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:2, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4.

Acts 19:4 Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to Jews only, to preach the BAPTISM of REPENTANCE. That they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.)

Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
(NOTE: John the Baptist is sent to preach, the Baptism of Repentance to All the People of ISRAEL. To Prepare the way for the coming LORD. Isa 40:3, Matt 3:3, Mk 1:3, Lk 3:4. Through whom remission/pardon/forgiveness of sin would be realized)

KJV Dictionary Definition - REMISSION: Forgiveness; Pardon; that is, the giving up of the punishment due to a crime; as the remission of sins. Matt. 26. Heb. 9.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
(NOTE: Without Christ's shed blood there is NO Remission/Pardon for sins.)

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(NOTE: It's faith placed in Christ's sinless shed blood that provides the Pardon/Remission for sins. NOT the act of water baptism)

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
(NOTE: Forgiveness of sins are realized thru Christ's sin atoning sacrifice)

Baptized twice! Once by John/in preparation to meet the Lord

And a 2nd time: In Jesus Name for the remission/forgiveness/pardon from sin.

Acts 19:
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
(NOTE: John is sent to preach the baptism of repentance. To PREPARE the people to believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Through whom the remission/pardon of sin would be realized)

5 On hearing this they were baptized [again, this time] in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(NOTE: Baptized 1st by John pre-sin payment in preparation to meet Jesus & Baptized again post-sin payment in Jesus name for the remission/pardon of sin)

Amplified Bible
Acts 19:
4 Paul said, “John performed a baptism of repentance, continually telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, [to confidently accept and joyfully believe] in Jesus [the Messiah and Savior].
(NOTE: The parenthetical emphasis in vrs 4 & 5 are placed by the Amplified Bible & not my own)

5 After hearing this, they were baptized [again, this time] in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(NOTE: Baptized 1st by John pre-sin payment in preparation to meet Jesus & Baptized again post-sin payment in Jesus name for the remission/pardon of sin)

Youngs Literal
Acts 19:
4 And Paul said, `John, indeed, did baptize with a baptism of reformation, saying to the people that in him who is coming after him they should believe -- that is, in the Christ -- Jesus;'

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus
(NOTE: They had been Baptized 1st by John, pre-sin payment in preparation to meet Jesus & Baptized again post-sin payment in Jesus name for the remission/pardon of sin)


Water baptism doesn't remiss/pardon/forgive sin, repentance doesn't remiss/pardon sin, obedience doesn't remiss/pardon sin, sabbath observance doesn't remiss/pardon sin, tithing doesn't remiss/pardon sin etc.

1 Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(NOTE: It's the blood of Jesus Christ his Son washes us from all sin)


Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(NOTE: It's Christ who loved us that washes us from our sins in his own blood)


NOTE: There's only ONE thing that can wash sin's stain off a soul. The sinless shed blood of Christ!

Faith & Faith alone, placed in Christ's finished sin redemptive work found in Jesus death (sins required wage PAID) burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (the Father's receipt, payment received & accepted). Is the only way anyone's sins are remissed/pardoned/forgiven! All the credit, glory, praise & honor belong, to our great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ!
Yeshua answered, "Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5 TLV).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,352
7,541
113
#54
Yeshua answered, "Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5 TLV).
What does *water* mean in this spiritual context? Nothing less than the Word of God, which is the Gospel. Now kindly pay close attention to the words of Peter which confirm what I just said:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (1 Peter 1:23-25)

"Water" is a metaphor for (1) the Word of God and (2) the Holy Spirit. "OIl" is a metaphor for only the Holy Spirit.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,965
10,757
113
55
#55
John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,561
10,308
113
#57
Works of faith or works of righteousness, whatever you want to call them or what you think about them, they are required to enter the kingdom of God. For Jesus Himself tells us the unprofitable servants, the lukewarm and the hypocrites will be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Non sequitur much?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,011
340
83
#58
Yeshua answered, "Amen, amen I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5 TLV).
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: Born again context here is speaking to a spiritual birth, No reference to water here)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb & be born?
(NOTE: This man is a "Doctor of Jewish Law". And is clueless as to what Born again/spiritual birth is)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water & of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(NOTE: First no mention of baptism here. And KEY context comes in the next verse = FLESH)

6 """That which is born of the flesh is flesh"""; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(NOTE: FLESH is FLESH Natural/fleshly birth begins in a AMNIOTIC SAC with WATER bursting. Spiritual birth comes via the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This verse eliminate salvation for fallen angels (spirit beings). One must be born in the flesh 1st to be born again/spiritually)

Throughout scripture its flesh/physical 1st then comes spiritual
Cain physical, Abel spiritual
Ishmael physical, Isaac spiritual (See Gal 4:22-31)
Esau physical, Jacob spiritual
Israel physical, the Body of Christ spiritual
Adam physical, Christ Spiritual

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit
(NOTE: The 1st man Adam/physical & the last Adam/Christ was post death made spiritually alive forevermore.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
21,965
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#59
Titus 3 may help:

Remind the people to be submitted to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, to slander no one, without fighting, gentle, showing every courtesy to all people. For we also once were foolish, disobedient, deluded, enslaved to various desires and pleasures, spending our lives in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared—not by deeds of righteousness which we had done ourselves, but because of His mercy—He saved us through the mikveh of rebirth and renewing of the Ruach ha-Kodesh, whom He abundantly poured out on us through Messiah Yeshua our Savior, so that being set right by His grace, we might become heirs with the confident hope of eternal life! Trustworthy is the saying, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have put their trust in God may be careful to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are good and beneficial for people. But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about Torah, for they are unprofitable and useless. Dismiss a quarrelsome person after a first and second warning, knowing that such a person is twisted and is sinning—he is self-condemned.
I’m already familiar with Titus 3, yet it doesn’t help me with answers to my questions that you continue to dodge.
 

EternalFire

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
468
262
63
#60
What does *water* mean in this spiritual context? Nothing less than the Word of God, which is the Gospel. Now kindly pay close attention to the words of Peter which confirm what I just said:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you. (1 Peter 1:23-25)

"Water" is a metaphor for (1) the Word of God and (2) the Holy Spirit. "OIl" is a metaphor for only the Holy Spirit.
Peter knew the importance of water baptism quite well:

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 3:21).