Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,767
1,362
113
Obviously Bible verses do not lie. But the one you keep reading doesn't mean what you
I wish it mean like what you think, easier for me keep singing no fruit still not being cut an thrown into fire unfortunately Bible say. No fruit thrown into fire
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,767
1,362
113
If it did, then God is a liar or is confused and therefore we should find another God besides the God of the Bible.
Yep, salvation by faith, but real faith bear the fruit, no fruit thrown into fire
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,767
1,362
113
He is in us and we are in Him. That is true abiding.
Yep, than bear fruit

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Good work is not from us, we only bear not produce, Jesus in us produce through us and Christian think we have love because they don't see Jesus in us
We not boasting of good work because we know we not producer
 

Goliath

Active member
Oct 6, 2021
335
53
28
1 Thessalonians 5:16-22




To be focused on Jesus, twenty four seven, is what Paul was preaching.
I was devastated when I first understood that statement.
Anything that is not of faith is sin.
Sin is everything else you may do, that is not the living, active, spirit filled life in Christ.
Thank you for your explanation.
But, How do you reconcile your definition of faith, with Works?
We are saved by Grace, through faith, and your faith requires a commitment of 24/7 works.
Do you now believe works plays a role in our salvation?
 

Goliath

Active member
Oct 6, 2021
335
53
28
The use of "fulfilling" and "fulfillment" doesn't change the sentiment - there is a law to be fulfilled by Christians and that is the Ten Commandments, which first four we will fulfill if we love God, and the last six we will fulfill if we love our neighbor. If we love God, we'll keep the first four, and if we love our neighbor, the last six.

Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law, but fulfill, or "to keep" it, not do away with it. Otherwise, we distort Jesus' words into perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements there could ever by: "Think not I am come to destroy the law and the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to do away with". Makes Jesus as confused as the most confused individual on the planet: a white Rastafarian. ;)
Brother....Just adding to what you have written. Trying to make it as clear as we can make it.

The changing of the heart, is, the fulfillment of the Law.
Through the Law, Jesus created a way to change our hearts, for those who obey his commands. This is why he said, He did not come to abolish the Law.
Now, if were were not under the Law.. Jesus would have said...I come to abolish the Law. But, did Jesus say that? No!

The Law of Christ is a New Covenant, not to be confused with the Law of Moses. But I can understand why it's confusing for many. Allow me to explain:
There were two parts of the Law God gave to Moses. Ten Laws of Omission written on stone...AKA the Ten Commandments, and over 600 laws of Commission....Laws which required WORKS.
Under the New Covenant, the 600 Laws of the Old Covenant were done away with, the Law of Moses.

But the Ten Commandments were not, they were carried over as a part of the New Covenant.
When Paul said "We are not under Law"......he was teaching against the Laws of Commission...AKA..Works, the Law of Moses. He was not teaching against keeping the Ten Commandments. To prove this to yourselves, try and find a passage, where Paul teaches against the Keeping of the Ten Commandments. This teaching does not exist.

Now.....try and find where he teaches against the 600 Laws of commission, and you will find him teaching against these Laws. Just read the book of Acts. This is what caused the dispute between Peter and Paul.
Many people, understandably, mistakenly call the Ten Commandments the Law of Moses. The Ten Commandments were in place, long before God ever wrote them in stone and gave them to Moses.

So this notion that we can Kill, lie, steal, commit adultery...etc, is just foolishness. Now I don't expect you to believe me, but think on this for a moment, THINK.....as to why most of us will be condemned.
In Revelation, you will see the condemned, are people who broke the Ten Commandments. Now honestly, if Jesus did away with the Ten Commandments, Why would God condemn the people who break them?
 

Goliath

Active member
Oct 6, 2021
335
53
28
You do realize the Catholics CHANGED the Ten Commandments, right? That upon which they place emphasis are "the doctrines of men", the teaching of which which Jesus called "vain worship".

Are you aware they make it their boast that it is THEY who changed Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day, and mock "Protestants" who claim to go by the Bible only, yet can't find a shred of evidence that God changed the day?

www.romeschallenge.com

All honest scholars admit Sunday keeping is TRADITION, not Scripture, as can be seen in all the writings of the founders of the major Christian denominations. Jesus said we "make the law of God of none effect by YOUR tradition". That's why I PLACE MY EMPHASIS on Sabbath, because it's under attack either deliberately or ignorantly by those who claim to go by the Bible but are following tradition - and when any Biblical truth is under attack, Jesus is under attack because He is the "Word of God".
Ahh...the Catholic Church...great discussion. They took the reins of the Church...right from the get go.
The Spirit taught me about it some years ago...and the Bible backs what I learned.
Those Pharisees converts we read about in Acts...they created what we call the Catholic Church.
Wannabe priests, and with the New Covenant they saw their chance. That's why they still dress today, as the Levites did back then. Again, don't expect anyone to believe me...just throwing it out there for those who have wondered why they dress so..
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
8,053
974
113
Plainly stated, since Matthew 24:12-13 KJV destroys OSAS
No, Jesus destroyed the OSNAS heresy with John 5:24 and 10:28.

5:24 teaches that eternal life is POSSESSED WHEN a person believes in Christ.
10:28 teaches that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.

So OSNAS is simply a failed attempt to contradict Jesus.

what we have Biblically is salvation that is dependent on our choice to either surrender and remained surrendered or not. Works have nothing to do with anything except to show as outward evidence the inward choice we have made, plain and simple.
Your 2 sentences here are in CONFLICT. The first sentence expresses a lifestyle. To "surrender" MEANS a different lifestyle.

The second sentence is simply what the first sentence is about. A changed lifestyle.

Those who think they are saved by a change in lifestyle, the Bible says they are NOT saved.

The OSAS crowd cannot accept this
Because it is heresy and is in direct conflict with Jesus' own words in John 5:24 and 10:28.

because of their belief that no one can produce the outward evidence of a truly surrendered heart: obedience.
This is nonsense. What we know to be true is that NO ONE can fulfill the law perfectly. iow, there is NO perfect obedience.

Why not? Because all believers still have their human sinful natures and will sin. Which is why John wrote 1 John 1:8-10.

Further, the Bible is full of commands FOR obedience. Your view seems to be obedience is automatic for a believer. If that were true, there would be no need for any such commands. Bet you didn't think that one through, didja?

Hence, the OSAS License to Sin.
Tired old saw. Nonsense again. The "license" to sin comes from our human nature.

Even Paul struggled with his own sin nature and he described his struggles in Romans 7 and Gal 5:17.

Your views are beyond naive and reveals a serious lack of understanding the Bible.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,767
1,362
113
abide in Jesus than you bear fruit without Jesus you can't do nothing

What is mean

Salvation not by your work, by faith or abide in Jesus than the fruit ps or good work appear from you not by you but by Jesus the more you give Jesus room in your heart the mother you become like Zhou, loving work out from you by Jesus in youu

The more you give room to the devil the more you become like, killing robbing etc out from you by the devil in you

You not give room to Jesus, will like branch without fruit and will be cut thrown into fire
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
8,053
974
113
If I am not at liberty to do anything, then I am not at liberty to break the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath.
This is a very naive statement. Every person is "at liberty" to choose whatever is possible to do. Just read Romans 6, and especially v.16.

If salvation in fact grants me liberty ("license") to break the Ten Commandments, it's exactly what I've been saying it is: a OSAS License to Sin.
This clearly demonstrates the extreme confusion of the OSNAS-ers. Salvation grants deliverance from the lake of fire.

It sure doesn't grant freedom to "break the 10 commandments". The freedom to choose whether to do that or not is explained in Romans 6:16. It's a choice that everyone has.

Again, this so-called "license to sin" comes from your own soul. James 1:12-15.

And finally, it is quite apparent that you are totally unfamiliar with what Paul wrote:

Rom 3-
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. iow, no one can fulfill the Law. Only Christ did that.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Those who claim sinlessness are woefully ignorant of these verses and Rom 6 and 7.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
8,053
974
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Obviously Bible verses do not lie. But the one you keep reading doesn't mean what you
I wish it mean like what you think, easier for me keep singing
I'm sure you really meant "keep sinning". What a reckless comment!! Shame.

Do you think eternal security means there will be no consequences for sin??? Then you are simply very ignorant of Scripture.

God's divine discipline is PAINFUL according to Heb 12:11. And David wrote about his own painful discipline in Psa 38. Please read it and understand what the disobedient child of God will face.

no fruit still not being cut an thrown into fire unfortunately Bible say. No fruit thrown into fire
The words "thrown into the fire" is an idiom which means discarded and unusable. For a 1st Century Jew, that was a horrible thought.

They were very proud that they were God's CHOSEN people. The idea that God would set aside or discard His people was shocking.

No offense, but your posts suggest that English isn't your native language. If not, what is your native language?

I suspect you have having difficulty understanding idioms, figures of speech and metaphors.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
8,053
974
113
FreeGrace2 said:
I don't believe any verse contradicts any other verse. I've shown you verses that PLAINLY say the opposite of what you claim.
Than john 15 is not contradict any verse in the bible
Sorry, but this sentence doesn't make sense. Could you please re-phrase or check spelling or whatever?
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
8,053
974
113
Thank you for your explanation.
But, How do you reconcile your definition of faith, with Works?
We are saved by Grace, through faith, and your faith requires a commitment of 24/7 works.
Could you explain what you mean by our "faith requires a commitment of 24/7 works"? To gain or maintain salvation, or what?

Do you now believe works plays a role in our salvation?
Eph 2:8,9 answers that question with clear words. NO.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,767
1,362
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Obviously Bible verses do not lie. But the one you keep reading doesn't mean what you

I'm sure you really meant "keep sinning". What a reckless comment!! Shame.

Do you think eternal security means there will be no consequences for sin??? Then you are simply very ignorant of Scripture.

God's divine discipline is PAINFUL according to Heb 12:11. And David wrote about his own painful discipline in Psa 38. Please read it and understand what the disobedient child of God will face.


The words "thrown into the fire" is an idiom which means discarded and unusable. For a 1st Century Jew, that was a horrible thought.

They were very proud that they were God's CHOSEN people. The idea that God would set aside or discard His people was shocking.

No offense, but your posts suggest that English isn't your native language. If not, what is your native language?

I suspect you have having difficulty understanding idioms, figures of speech and metaphors.
English is not my first language but I know john 15:6 mean no fruit thrown into fire mean.
Fire idiom word it mean hell
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,767
1,362
113
They were very proud that they were God's CHOSEN people. The idea that God would set aside or discard His people was shocki
Do you mean God will discard His peple?
Yes I agree if His people not bear fruit.

Discard, mean trowned into fire or hell
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,767
1,362
113
Sorry, but this sentence doesn't make sense. Could you please re-phrase or check spelling or whateve
Read the context
Why you ask me to also address Ephesians along with john 15?
You expect john 15 contradict Ephesians?
Not going to happen

Salvation by grace doesn't mean salvation not produce fruits
Yes the fruit not by you, it is by Jesus in you
No fruit mean no Jesus mean no faith mean not save