Retire the Ten Commandments?

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Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
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Revelation 10:7 & Deut 29:29 have been IMPRESSED on me. There are things that are not yet known...Or leastways fully revealed to us.

It could very well be that it was "finished" when Yeshua uttered the words...but outside of time perhaps? Possibly in a non-linear fashion. We as humans are bound by time however and certain "mysteries" are beyond our grasp. Finite understanding infinite?

Anyway, I'll leave that for now because I keep wanting to work this out and it's like I can't, but I believe HE can "in his timing"..I'm a W.I.P how about you?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,269
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Revelation 10:7 & Deut 29:29 have been IMPRESSED on me. There are things that are not yet known...Or leastways fully revealed to us.

It could very well be that it was "finished" when Yeshua uttered the words...but outside of time perhaps? Possibly in a non-linear fashion. We as humans are bound by time however and certain "mysteries" are beyond our grasp. Finite understanding infinite?

Anyway, I'll leave that for now because I keep wanting to work this out and it's like I can't, but I believe HE can "in his timing"..I'm a W.I.P how about you?
Could very well be? I can assure you that the Lord fulfilled the Law to the uttermost.

What is lacking is peoples faith. What is lacking is people coming to the Lord.
Your point #2 "Till all be fulfilled" you are making out "Till some be fulfilled." Let me ask you: The feasts point to what God is doing with mankind. Has everything taken place already or are some yet future?

Legend: Fulfilled - Not Fulfilled
1. Passover - 7 days of unleavened bread (two high days).
2. Pentecost - The outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

3. Trumpets - The return of Christ.
4. Day of Atonement - The binding of Satan (scapegoat).
5. Feast of Tabernacles - The millennial reign.
6. The Last Great Day - The White Throne Judgment.


Looks like some are yet in the future. Or is it just me?
Its not just you. Its all who are still in unbelief.

Trumpets - The coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ. - already has come

Day of Atonement - The Lord Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of the world - already done

Tabernacles - The Lord Jesus Christ presently tabernacles with His People - already done and doing


All has been and is being fulfilled, at this present time. The only thing that is not fulfilled is who and how many will come to Christ and have faith that the Lord has accomplished what He has said He would accomplish.


Its absolutely incomprehensible that a Christian would teach other Christians that the Lord Jesus Christ has failed in what He set out to do. Which is what you, and the unbelieving jews do, when they teach that the Lord DID NOT fulfill all the law.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Could very well be? I can assure you that the Lord fulfilled the Law to the uttermost.

What is lacking is peoples faith. What is lacking is people coming to the Lord.


Its not just you. Its all who are still in unbelief.

Trumpets - The coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ. - already has come

Day of Atonement - The Lord Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of the world - already done

Tabernacles - The Lord Jesus Christ presently tabernacles with His People - already done and doing


All has been and is being fulfilled, at this present time. The only thing that is not fulfilled is who and how many will come to Christ and have faith that the Lord has accomplished what He has said He would accomplish.


Its absolutely incomprehensible that a Christian would teach other Christians that the Lord Jesus Christ has failed in what He set out to do. Which is what you, and the unbelieving jews do, when they teach that the Lord DID NOT fulfill all the law.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
And yet you think you have it down pat, all that God is doing with mankind. You are saved and serving God but what is God doing with those that know Him not? The message about the Kingdom of God is their hope. Your gospel is about the person of Jesus, not the real gospel. His atoning sacrifice is part of the gospel, but not all of it.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
16,538
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No..... it doesn't matter.
A pastor is not there to know each first name. He is there to present the word of G-d. It is not a social place. When social attributes enters....G-d becomes secondary. Not right.

Give me a traditional servant of G-d presenting the word of G-d and my time at the church is well spent.
Afterwards, have lunch, social coffee is fine.
Oh ok i thought a teacher did that not a pastor. A pastor is someone who looks after their sheep.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Oh ok i thought a teacher did that not a pastor. A pastor is someone who looks after their sheep.
You are playing the semantics game here.
A pastor does all the above.

What has that got to do with secular socializing?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
16,538
5,594
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You are playing the semantics game here.
A pastor does all the above.

What has that got to do with secular socializing?
No im not.
Really, how can anyone look after someone who they dont even know their name. Think about it.

Do they just call out 'hey you' and expect them to follow.

So, why did you post your OP about a pastor of this huge church, why is it any concern of yours, if you dont even go there?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,269
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And yet you think you have it down pat, all that God is doing with mankind. You are saved and serving God but what is God doing with those that know Him not? The message about the Kingdom of God is their hope. Your gospel is about the person of Jesus, not the real gospel. His atoning sacrifice is part of the gospel, but not all of it.
I never mentioned what God is doing with mankind. That's Gods Business.

All that I said is how disappointed I am with people who teach that the Lord Jesus Christ DID NOT accomplish what He said He came to accomplish.

They teach it as if it were fact and all it is is unbelief. Because they are still looking with their carnal eyes expecting a carnal end.

Not sure exactly why but it seems to be popular.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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I never mentioned what God is doing with mankind. That's Gods Business.

All that I said is how disappointed I am with people who teach that the Lord Jesus Christ DID NOT accomplish what He said He came to accomplish.

They teach it as if it were fact and all it is is unbelief. Because they are still looking with their carnal eyes expecting a carnal end.

Not sure exactly why but it seems to be popular.
I think Deade is probably referring to the Gospel of the Kingdom when he used the term "the real gospel". He does not accept that, since the Jews rejected it by the end of Acts. the GOK has been postponed until after the Rapture,

In short, he interprets what Paul said in Romans 9-11 differently.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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Interesting, so you disagree that Jesus has fulfilled All the law? Well if you don't believe that, then yes, I can understand your point.

By the way. I was amused that you also consider the millennial reign and the Great white throne judgement as part of the law. Yes, I agree that those events have yet to come to pass.

Christ was sent to provide us with a resource of recovery from our sin.
G-d's law will stand until the end.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
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Its not that difficult once you really read that passage
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (King James Version)
This passage is often used by Christians to insist that the "moral law" is still with us today. But if you read it carefully, Jesus was actually proposing 2 different ways in which the law can be "passed" away.
1)Till heaven and earth pass away
2)Till all be fulfilled
The first has obviously not happened. But Jesus on earth has fulfilled all the law on our behalf, so the second condition has taken place.
I know the above argument. There is a deeper principle at work here, and it is the Kingdom and
God's will. Jesus to be the sacrifice of atonement had to be the perfect lamb without defect.

Paul argued that through walking in the Spirit, we became slaves of righteousness, loving everyone,
and thereby fulfilling the law as Jesus fulfilled the law. And because we are no longer law breakers
the law has no power over us.

The principle that Jesus is using is simple, with a changed heart, cleansed and purified, in dwelling
Holy Spirit, Gods word working through us, we become Children of Heaven able to walk like Jesus.

This is the aspiration of the Holiness movement shown within the Nazarene church denomination.

Now if one says the moral law is defunct and irrelevant, done away with, the question is why?
Why would people of love and the Kingdom break moral law? How does loving everyone mean it
is alright to sin? How would people who know Gods will and His heart, want to sin or compromise
with it, knowing it destroys our spiritual life and our communion with God?

So as a natural outflow of our knowing Christ comes our walk in righteousness.
As the prophecy says, His law is written on their minds and hearts.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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.
Now if one says the moral law is defunct and irrelevant, done away with, the question is why?
Why would people of love and the Kingdom break moral law? How does loving everyone mean it
is alright to sin? How would people who know Gods will and His heart, want to sin or compromise
with it, knowing it destroys our spiritual life and our communion with God?
God never intended for Man to live under the Law. That was why he told Adam not to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.

Its a fallacy to believe that once we are not living under the Law, we will go ahead and sin like crazy. It is precisely knowing the Law that strengthens sin in our flesh. The Apostle Paul discussed all these in details in his letters to the Gentile Church.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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No. Sin is not the yoke of bondage.

Working at the law is the yoke of bondage.

Free from sin is the result of standing fast in the Liberty that is in Christ and NOT being entangled again in the yoke of bondage.

See Acts 15:5-11
????

What do you mean...working at the law?
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
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Since the Old Covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God has made the Old Covenant obsolete to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10). Out of this single command comes other commands (which are relevant for Christians living in the New Covenant era) including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

To say that these moral commands are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era is to the dung heap, yet at the same time, we have the other extreme of turning obeying the 10 commandments under the Old Covenant into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant era as a means to obtaining eternal life, which is also to the dung heap.
Wow, so there are no longer 10? so you have searched the new testament post cross to find the new testament commandments and came up with a measely 9 commandments? There are dozens and dozens and dozens and you found just 9?????? And why is it you felt it necessary to cherry pick 9 things that you can claim are = to the 9 from the old testament. Why do you make any reference at all to the old testament 10 commandments if they are abolished in the new testament???????
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
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Could very well be? I can assure you that the Lord fulfilled the Law to the uttermost.

What is lacking is peoples faith. What is lacking is people coming to the Lord.


Its not just you. Its all who are still in unbelief.

Trumpets - The coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ. - already has come

Day of Atonement - The Lord Jesus Christ atoned for the sins of the world - already done

Tabernacles - The Lord Jesus Christ presently tabernacles with His People - already done and doing


All has been and is being fulfilled, at this present time. The only thing that is not fulfilled is who and how many will come to Christ and have faith that the Lord has accomplished what He has said He would accomplish.


Its absolutely incomprehensible that a Christian would teach other Christians that the Lord Jesus Christ has failed in what He set out to do. Which is what you, and the unbelieving jews do, when they teach that the Lord DID NOT fulfill all the law.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not comcrificee to destroy, but to fulfil.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
The atonement is not complete. The sacrificial element of the atonement is complete. The intercessory high priestly ministry of Jesus in the Heavenly Sanctuary Most Holy Place is on going presently. And the judgement phase of the atonement also has yet to be completed.

I do understand that many think of Jesus sacrifice on the cross being the atonement , but it is actually not the atonement in whole, it is the sacrificial element or part of the atonement (at-one-ment).
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
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????

What do you mean...working at the law?
Jesus said come unto me ye that are heavy laden, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. So is it easier to be saved than lost?
Is the "heavy laden" the burden of sin? Jesus is infinitely more powerful than Satan, so in Christ shouldn't sin be gone?
 

BibletruthSOP

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Apr 2, 2019
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I really don't see how people get around Mt 5:17-18

Fulfill NOT abolish should certainly be a check to any and all to further study/living.
Jesus came to show how the law is filled Full of love...
 

BibletruthSOP

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Apr 2, 2019
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How do we get to heaven,remember there was two covenants.
Are we supposed to follow the new covenant,the old and the new covenant or follow only the new covenant?
You are to follow the everlasting gospel, the same one abel, noah, Abraham, moses, Daniel, paul, john, matthew, luke, etc. followed
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
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Are you mixed up in the Hebrew Roots movement? In contrast with the Old Testament Passover feast, which was celebrated annually, believers celebrate the feast of the new Passover, which is Jesus Christ. The Jews celebrated the Passover with unleavened bread, yet believers celebrate their continual Passover with unleavened lives (unleavened bread of sincerity and truth). Verses 6 and 7 are referring to the Passover Feast and during Passover, Jews would eat unleavened bread, as a symbol of moral purity. Here Paul is explaining this symbolism. In the analogy, leaven represents sin, and he says that just as even a little yeast is sufficient to leaven a large loaf of bread, just a little sin is enough to contaminate an entire body of believers. You missed the spiritual significance, just as you did in Hebrews 4:9. The keeping of Sabbath days (including the weekly Sabbath) are not binding on the Church in the New Testament (Colossians 2:16-17).

This is slanderous which stems from pride. :(

Oh sure, those terrible traditions. I've heard this same argument from Hebrew Roots gurus numerous times. :rolleyes:

Dangers of the Hebrew Roots Movement - https://answersingenesis.org/presuppositions/dangers-hebrew-roots-movement/

Just a little insight by way of questions re Col 2. Vs. 14...what is the handwriting of ordinances? Verse 17 refers to the things in vs. 16 as shadows of things to come, so it had to be referring to the ceremonial sabbaths (passover, etc.) which referenced/foreshadowed Christ (the lamb) to come. But the 7th day sabbath is part of the 10 commandments as given on Sinai and the 10 commandments were never considered a shadow of things to come. And specifically the 4th commandment or 7th day sabbath is a memorial (not a shadow which always represents a future event) of creation, a past event, given before sin entered, and so can never be thought of as a shadow. Much more, but these are interesting to consider.
 

BibletruthSOP

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Apr 2, 2019
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I disagree with the part I bolded and/underlined.

I still sin In the flesh from time to time but I’m not under law but under grace and won’t be judged by the law.

JESUS paid the penalty for the sins of the world and now by faith In the WORD of GOD I’m no longer under law but a member of the body of CHRIST.
;) as Paul said, we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
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G-d knows that....if we humans could do that He need not give us unlimited times of sin forgiveness.

He does expect us to improve our righteous lives...daily, I believe.
Keeping the commandments of God is the normative behavior (in heart and actually) of a Grace saved Christian, grace saved meaning Christ in you, the hope of glory.