Retire the Ten Commandments?

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Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Everyone is trapped in a cult if you consider 2Thessalonians 2:2 in that although some might not fully be aware of the certain times of eschatology they also might not be of full understanding of what it might pertain to of the commands we give to our hands in the faith of our loving Lord Jesus the Christ,the acts of our hands,the mind of our spirit when it flicks our arms and legs and they obey what we said go do.

But look at 2Tessalonians 2:2 and notice that it made no difference to Paul in that they did not understand what all of the Matthew 24,mark 13,,,Luke 21 stuff all meant other than that he knew that it made them afraid and he saw to give them comfort. The Apostle Paul did not cast them away in his letter as dead things because they thought they had missed the coming of the Lord but instead as brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ. There is no stipulation my love in that you are required to know everything at once....
True

Even the foolish virgins had enough foresight to watch and wait for the groom,but not enough to replenish their oil.
If the early church thought he had already come,it automatically would cancel the blessed hope in their walk.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I wonder how you can step away from your own righteousness and study Christianity instead?

"Christ is DEAD in vain",,,I think is what they miss, I did too for a long time. I thought I was saved when I was 14 then again in my 20's then when I was about 29-30 I realized that I was saved on the cross almost two thousand years before I was born...
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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"Christ is DEAD in vain",,,I think is what they miss, I did too for a long time. I thought I was saved when I was 14 then again in my 20's then when I was about 29-30 I realized that I was saved on the cross almost two thousand years before I was born...
Is this universalism?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Is this universalism?
No.

Its Revelation.

Ephesians 1:15-17
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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No.

Its Revelation.

Ephesians 1:15-17
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
He said he was saved 2000 yrs ago.
My question pointed to a need to get born again, hinging on a 2000 yr old provision.
Universalism says all are already saved.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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He said he was saved 2000 yrs ago.
My question pointed to a need to get born again, hinging on a 2000 yr old provision.
Universalism says all are already saved.
Ephesians 1:4-6
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

You don't like this?
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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WASHINGTON – A mega-pastor of one of the largest “evangelical” churches in the U.S. is attacking the Old Testament again, this time insisting Jesus rendered the Ten Commandments null and void, issuing one new law “as a replacement for everything.” Andy Stanley, pastor of the 34,000-member North Point Community Church in suburban Atlanta, who famously advised his flock to “unhitch” from the Old Testament in a sermon last spring, has now penned an article promoting his new book saying laws such as “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” and “Thou shalt not kill” are no longer relevant to Christians living in the New Covenant era……Read More


He must have been talking with the pope.

A new, new age religion concept........."great deceptions in the end times".

The Bible does not change. People try to change the Bible....by reinterpretation or a new bible edition.

This is not even believable. To the dung heap.
I agree with you. Here is Jesus on the subject of the law.

Matthew 5 NIV
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

This means we are all under the law. Breaking the law is condemnation for us. We thank God for Jesus who died on the cross for us. Thus we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. He removes the penalty of sin from us.
 

RDK

Member
Sep 29, 2018
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Love is meant to fill in the gaps that the old laws never explained. We are so worried that we miss something so we argue without ceasing. Love will always make more sense than the letter. Trying to paint a portrait with many words on distorts the simplicity of the picture. T he laws were training wheels which had to be removed from the bike. Jesus made all laws easy to understand. If you have not understood anything else, all laws are contained in the value of love. Love is what defines a law. And shows us what it means and how to interpret it. There never should have been any disagreement on this subject.
 

RDK

Member
Sep 29, 2018
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The great difficulty with interpreting scripture is that it is not all teaching the same lessons consistently. How are we to please our Father? The breaking of the OT laws meant a death sentence in most cases. Is that love? It is not the forgiveness that Jesus showed. You shalt not kill was not even honored in the old testament. Moses was told to kill men women and children constantly. Moses was effectively picking up the stone to cast it. Jesus told us not to cast stones since we are not sinless. These are opposite concepts friends. Love and death are certainly opposites. You can not discuss the validity of the law without realizing that someone back there is trying to kill us for not following it. Is our Father the murderer or is it the curse of Satan that allows such opposite ideas to exist within the cover of our Bibles. Love will certainly show us that forgiving our enemies is so much greater than killing them
I agree with you. Here is Jesus on the subject of the law.

Matthew 5 NIV
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

This means we are all under the law. Breaking the law is condemnation for us. We thank God for Jesus who died on the cross for us. Thus we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. He removes the penalty of sin from us.
. HOW DIFFICULT IS ALL OF THIS SUPPOSED TO BE. Is torment and death really a good teaching method. Love defines our responses to evil. Do not return it. Jesus has given us a simple method of living our lives, but we keep looking for some other answers. This site exists because people still can't figure out how to interpret their daddy. Jesus is non-retaliatory and that is the final word. If we find words to the contrary, they are flat out wrong. Take a side and stay with it. Forgiveness for sin is the answer, not dying because you could not follow it anyway. This is very simple stuff. Only the intellectuals are having problems with trying to make sense of it all. Jesus told us that love is the fulfilling of the law. Not following all of the rules with death sentences attached to them. Someone still believes that Jesus was trying to validate the old testament commands. How tangled our understanding becomes when we start trying to validate the old by vindicating the new. We have been set free from all of the confusion. No longer do we have to believe that He ever asked us to kill each other. He would never have done such a confusing thing. Some of you will continue to believe that it was god who asked us to kill for him, and you will seek to prove that he had some good reason for it. There was none. You don't teach children how to punish and later teach how to forgive. Is this getting clear to any of you. Gods concepts are easy but do require a stand. The lesser has been exposed and the simplicity of the truth remains. Love will please Daddy!
 

RDK

Member
Sep 29, 2018
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Please allow me to begin with these.

Jesus said:

Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth are still here. Not all has been "fulfilled", for there are many prophecies concerning the 2nd and 3rd Advents to take place yet.

This reponse will take a few posts to explain, as it is involved in many texts, all co-related. Therefore, please give me the time and space to present it, and then feel free to respond.

The mocking question arises from the many who have gone out from us, from those who resist the truth, and from the skeptics, doubters and the blasphemous, (in general) “Do you stone the Sabbath breaker? If not, then you do not keep all of the law, and pick and choose what you want, being hypocrites and judges of yourselves, for if you keep not one point, you are guilty of all. You turn away from God's written judgment and replace it with your own self-righteousness, even a law of your own making.”

God's people have usually answered this question with, “No, we no longer stone the Sabbath breaker, for we are under the New Covenant, and therefore, that law no longer applies to Israel today.”

Yet, this answer, though plausible at first consideration, according to the scripture, the King James Bible, is actually, incorrect.

The true answer to, “Do you stone the Sabbath breaker?”, according the the King James Bible, is “Yes, all being a matter of Who, What, Where, When, Why and How.”

See for yourself.

The Law of God explicitly says:

Sins of Ignorance, No Knowledge:

Numbers 15:22 KJB - And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses,​
Numbers 15:23 KJB - Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations;​
Numbers 15:24 KJB - Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering.​
Numbers 15:25 KJB - And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance:​
Numbers 15:26 KJB - And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.​
Numbers 15:27 KJB - And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.​
Numbers 15:28 KJB - And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.​
Numbers 15:29 KJB - Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.​

Sins of Presumption, Willful Ignorance, Stubborn Rebellion:

Numbers 15:30 KJB - But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.​
Numbers 15:31 KJB - Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.​

The Presumptuous Sin of a Sabbath Breaker who knew His Masters Will:

Numbers 15:32 KJB - And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.​
Numbers 15:33 KJB - And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.​
Numbers 15:34 KJB - And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.​
Numbers 15:35 KJB - And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.​
Numbers 15:36 KJB - And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.​

This statute and punishment for disobedience was given directly by God [even Jesus] Himself.

- It applies to “the children of Israel”, and all, native born or stranger, within their “camp” [Numbers 15:35,36 KJB], property, “borders”, and/or “gates”, see Exodus 20:10 KJB.
If Jesus had wanted stoning for breaking commands, He would not have enforced it. Look at the woman who was caught in adultery. Jesus basically told them that only the sinless could cast stones. Who are they? They don't exist on this planet and never have. Scriptures sure do have a way with blinding and confusing people. Jesus ideas are simple. Love your enemies, not kill them. This is what forgiveness is all about. Eliminate any other teaching and this simple idea will be gloriously expressed.
 
Oct 3, 2018
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www.jbs.org
Wouldn't it be amazing news were to happen after something this absurd to make news that the next service the pastor walks out to an empty church. Therein having been sent the message, apostates are not welcome to preach.
 
Oct 3, 2018
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www.jbs.org
ACTS 15
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood...
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
In contemporary terms strangled animals are not at issue in most of the western world. Nor is meats and idols. The rest reiterates the ten commands in small part save for the fornication part, unless the command concerning adultery is considered.
 

RDK

Member
Sep 29, 2018
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Wouldn't it be amazing news were to happen after something this absurd to make news that the next service the pastor walks out to an empty church. Therein having been sent the message, apostates are not welcome to preach.
Isn,t it amazing that Christians will not even touch subjects like this. We all want to know what is happening with the two standard system but refuse to acknowledge that it even exists. The atheists will confront these questions since they have no particular allegiance to the subject matter. Are there any others Christians here who will deal with the real meat of God. Jesus has saved me from stupidity.
Wouldn't it be amazing news were to happen after something this absurd to make news that the next service the pastor walks out to an empty church. Therein having been sent the message, apostates are not welcome to preach.
 
Oct 3, 2018
83
52
18
www.jbs.org
Isn,t it amazing that Christians will not even touch subjects like this. We all want to know what is happening with the two standard system but refuse to acknowledge that it even exists. The atheists will confront these questions since they have no particular allegiance to the subject matter. Are there any others Christians here who will deal with the real meat of God. Jesus has saved me from stupidity.
I think back to high school dances. Remember those? When dinosaurs roamed the earth and the tar pits was not a tourist attraction but a danger zone? :p:LOL:
All it took was one couple to get up and start to dance and then everyone else would start to dance. Till then the floor would stay empty.
Christians tend to be followers after all. I think all it would take is one person in a church as that one described. Stand up, walk toward the door. No scene, say nothing. Just stand and walk out.
Because if the congregation stays it tells that errant pastor they're right. It gives them a false sense of security that they can say that, anything can qualify as "that", and they'll suffer nothing. In this life.

Like TD Jakes church. Recently, his wife made news long after his fornicating daughter did when she made news pregnant out of wedlock.
His wife allowed Yoga practice into the women's gathering there. Rather than follow those who led these poses, what if women in each pew started to leave?


TD Jakes' wife shares photos of yoga session at The Potter's House

Think it would make a difference? Send a message?
But people are largely afraid of their pastor. Ever notice that? What a shame.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Ephesians 1:4-6
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

You don't like this?
I fully embrace the word.
Have no problem the predestined concept of God.
Have no problem with the choice of every believer and non believer.

Don't know why so many misplace the 2.
The bible is a good starting place.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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I fully embrace the word.
Have no problem the predestined concept of God.
Have no problem with the choice of every believer and non believer.

Don't know why so many misplace the 2.
The bible is a good starting place.
Just a thought for you...if you endorse predestination (not biblical) then you must explain why G-d gives us ...free will.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Just a thought for you...if you endorse predestination (not biblical) then you must explain why G-d gives us ...free will.
Both are biblical. God both predestined us and gave us free will.
But yes it,predestination,as is presented by that group is easily refuted. It's cousin,universalism, also depicts the believer as a passive puppet of heaven.
 

Locoponydirtman

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Oct 9, 2018
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Texas
The moral law becomes our new nature, written on our hearts rather than on stones. Because Jesus, I don't want to commit adultry, or even look on a woman in lust. In many ways the new law is more strengent now; not only do we not covet what belongs to others but are joyful with them that they have it, and are content with what the Lord has given us.
The 10 commandments are less commandments and more descriptions of our new nature if indeed we love God. The moral values are not gonna away, but are the desire of our heart.
 
U

UnderGrace

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The moral law becomes our new nature, written on our hearts rather than on stones. Because Jesus, I don't want to commit adultry, or even look on a woman in lust. In many ways the new law is more strengent now; not only do we not covet what belongs to others but are joyful with them that they have it, and are content with what the Lord has given us.
The 10 commandments are less commandments and more descriptions of our new nature if indeed we love God. The moral values are not gonna away, but are the desire of our heart.
Yes, we now have the law of liberty.

And we love only because He has shed his love in our hearts through His Spirit, which is indeed the new nature.:)
Romans 5:5


19 We love because he first loved us.
1 John 4:19
 

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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G-d has many other laws than just the Ten Commandments; divorce, abortion, homosexuality, liar, etc.,