Revelation 3:5

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LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
232
63
#1
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. " (Revelation 3:5)

So we can lose our salvation, can't we? Well, first off in this verse Jesus makes a promise. He says "will not blot out", not "might not blot out". It is a PROMISE to EVERYBODY that overcomes. Of course, those who do not overcome will be blot out. But who are the overcomers?

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. " (1 John 5:4)

If you are born again, you are an overcomer!

And who is in the Book of Life? When do you get included in there? When you get saved, correct? Well, let's see...

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. " (Psalm 139:16)

So we all were written there before the foundation of the world. God bless
 

Wevcles

Junior Member
May 27, 2011
28
12
3
#2
I have a Question to you. Save ever save? I want write, we shall every day our Life give Jesus.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
19,383
7,568
113
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#3
Certain people read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is poised and ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not overcome every possible struggle in life that there is to overcome. They read into it like this: "If you don't overcome every struggle in life and win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!" But that is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning. Salvation is by grace through faith and is not based on the merits of our performance. Only genuine believers are victorious and will receive eternal life and all the glory goes to Jesus Christ.

The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
685
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#4
That verse says that the conquest of the world is our faith. If faith goes bye-bye then so does victory. Simple.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
#5
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. " (Revelation 3:5)

So we can lose our salvation, can't we? Well, first off in this verse Jesus makes a promise. He says "will not blot out", not "might not blot out". It is a PROMISE to EVERYBODY that overcomes. Of course, those who do not overcome will be blot out. But who are the overcomers?

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. " (1 John 5:4)

If you are born again, you are an overcomer!

And who is in the Book of Life? When do you get included in there? When you get saved, correct? Well, let's see...

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. " (Psalm 139:16)

So we all were written there before the foundation of the world. God bless
ABSOLUTELY and those blotted out are the ones who will not receive Christ by faith......<---The simplicity found in Christ......
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
#6
That verse says that the conquest of the world is our faith. If faith goes bye-bye then so does victory. Simple.
So...by this view JESUS is a failure........why do you believe Jesus is a failure, weak or inept?

MY BIBLE states

HE begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith he began in us and we are saved to the uttermost

YOUR view states that JESUS does not finish or complete the work of faith he began in us.....so which is it....HE finishes and completes it because he is God, all powerful and fulfills his word or he is weak, inept, a liar and cannot complete that which he started?
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
685
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#7
So...by this view JESUS is a failure........why do you believe Jesus is a failure, weak or inept?

MY BIBLE states

HE begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith he began in us and we are saved to the uttermost

YOUR view states that JESUS does not finish or complete the work of faith he began in us.....so which is it....HE finishes and completes it because he is God, all powerful and fulfills his word or he is weak, inept, a liar and cannot complete that which he started?
He will most definitely finish what he starts - if we let him. IMO monergism, which is what you are espousing, is an untenable biblical concept.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#8
The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.
That's why we should remain born again. Only born again people are able to endure to the end and be saved. Don't stop believing. If you have a good heart you won't.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#9
So...by this view JESUS is a failure........why do you believe Jesus is a failure, weak or inept?

MY BIBLE states

HE begins, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith he began in us and we are saved to the uttermost

YOUR view states that JESUS does not finish or complete the work of faith he began in us.....so which is it....HE finishes and completes it because he is God, all powerful and fulfills his word or he is weak, inept, a liar and cannot complete that which he started?
Jesus doesn't fail anybody. If our heart is not good we can potentially fail him through unbelief by not continuing to avail ourselves of his perfectly effectual and never ending ministry.

"35Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised."-Hebrews 10:35-36


.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,100
17,427
113
#10
HAHAHAHAHH I love all the worldly coined phrases designed by men to oppose simple truth....no matter how any slice, dice, twist and or reject the truth it will not change the fact that JESUS is the source of faith, he starts it, he finishes it and he completes it...

ALL who deny this....peddle a weak inept liar that cannot keep his word....plain as day.

P.S. yanking Hebrews out of context to peddle a loseable salvation will never fly....no matter how many times it gets peddled like a street organ player in Bombay with a dancing monkey......
 
Jun 9, 2018
6
2
3
#11
When I had my Epiphany ,I was concerned about a lifetime of past sins.But I felt those leave me when the Holy Spirit coming upon me.
so what of the future?
I right away saw that my Spirit was healed of sin,but my flesh still had that temptation to sin.
that's the battle that never ends.Sadly sometimes no matter how hard you try,the flesh wins.So do you give up?No,you fight on and try to do better! I found what works best is trust in Jesus,get up each morning,do the very best you can each day,and see what happens.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,917
1,220
113
#12
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. " (Revelation 3:5)

So we can lose our salvation, can't we? Well, first off in this verse Jesus makes a promise. He says "will not blot out", not "might not blot out". It is a PROMISE to EVERYBODY that overcomes. Of course, those who do not overcome will be blot out. But who are the overcomers?

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. " (1 John 5:4)

If you are born again, you are an overcomer!

And who is in the Book of Life? When do you get included in there? When you get saved, correct? Well, let's see...

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. " (Psalm 139:16)

So we all were written there before the foundation of the world. God bless
Hello LW97,

This is a good point that you have brought up and unfortunately one that is misunderstood, since we have so many OSAS people. My stand has always been that, eternal security is dependent upon continuing in faith from first to last. There are just too many warnings in the word of God to think that one is saved no matter what he does. And then they always use the claim of "well, he was never really a Christian then."

"But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence— if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. - Colossians 1:22-23

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins." James 5:19-20

"If we say we have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."

Eternal security is secure for those who remain faithful, not practicing the sinful nature, but practicing righteousness.


But getting back to what you posted, in each of the letters to the churches a promise is made to "he who overcomes," with consequences for those who don't. Therefore, for those who do not overcome i.e. go back into living according to the sinful nature and remain and die in that state, the promises should be reversed and the consequences applied. The very fact that Jesus says "I will not blot out that persons name who overcomes, would infer that is able and to and will. And regarding names that were written in the book of life, you are correct in that the book of Revelation also tells us that the names of the saved were written in the book of life before the world began:

"And those who dwell on the earth whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet will be." - Rev.17:8

"And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. - Rev.13:8
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,169
3,728
113
#13
That verse says that the conquest of the world is our faith. If faith goes bye-bye then so does victory. Simple.
The child of God will not be subject to such a failure. There is more to salvation than you seem to believe.
 

SaintMichaels

Active member
Jun 6, 2018
156
107
28
#15
Certain people read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is poised and ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not overcome every possible struggle in life that there is to overcome. They read into it like this: "If you don't overcome every struggle in life and win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!" But that is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning. Salvation is by grace through faith and is not based on the merits of our performance. Only genuine believers are victorious and will receive eternal life and all the glory goes to Jesus Christ.

The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.
John 5:1 says, “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.”

Very true. We have overcome the world because worldly people are fallen in their sins and shall die as such without Christ.
Though we shall witness those worldly people heading churches and teaching Humanist doctrine to masses of people gathered. Hungry to hear that they can be of the world and in the world and God is a reciprocal magic genie that gives riches in exchange for faith.

Too late shall such persons discover they followed a wolf that lived in a mansion and fed them to Hell.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
1,638
327
83
#16
Revelation 3:1-6

3 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#17
I'd like to know how it's possible for a person to get unborn...
Take the Holy Spirit out of a person.

It's not the rock that God can't lift that people make it out to be.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#18
....no matter how any slice, dice, twist and or reject the truth it will not change the fact that JESUS is the source of faith, he starts it, he finishes it and he completes it...
Nobody argues with this. We all know it is his power through which salvation happens start to finish. What we are saying is you have his power to do that as long as you have faith. Stop having faith in Christ and his work of salvation ends.

Now you can argue that the person who stops believing never 'really' believed to begin with and so was never saved to begin with. I can respect that argument, though I do not agree with it in all cases. Or you can insist that the former believer is going to be saved when Jesus comes back and will enter into the kingdom with us who believe. But that's such a ridiculous claim that it's hardly worth discussing. But I know this is where the church has come to in these last days--unbelievers inhabiting the kingdom of God. We have fallen a long way down. A loooooong way. The end is near.



P.S. yanking Hebrews out of context to peddle a loseable salvation will never fly....no matter how many times it gets peddled like a street organ player in Bombay with a dancing monkey......
But remember, you are among those who ignore the context of Hebrews 10 to make the passage so it's not talking about saved people. Did you forget?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,169
3,728
113
#19
Take the Holy Spirit out of a person.
As I said, there is a lot more involved with salvation than some of you even understand. In fact, people who talk about loss of salvation don't really know what the Bible teaches about God's salvation.

Since God gives sinners the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, and His gifts are irreversible, the Holy Spirit cannot -- and will not -- depart out of any genuine child of God. The child of God is SEALED with the Holy Spirit, which means that that person is Christ's purchased possession.

If there is any sin which needs to be addressed, it will be addressed by God (if not addressed by the believer). But the relationship of a child of God to his Father cannot be changed.

You may estrange yourself from your earthly father for whatever reason, but that will never change the fact the you are your father's son and that your father is your father. The same thing applies in the spiritual realm. BELIEVE IT.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
685
113
#20
As I said, there is a lot more involved with salvation than some of you even understand. In fact, people who talk about loss of salvation don't really know what the Bible teaches about God's salvation.

Since God gives sinners the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, and His gifts are irreversible, the Holy Spirit cannot -- and will not -- depart out of any genuine child of God. The child of God is SEALED with the Holy Spirit, which means that that person is Christ's purchased possession.

If there is any sin which needs to be addressed, it will be addressed by God (if not addressed by the believer). But the relationship of a child of God to his Father cannot be changed.

You may estrange yourself from your earthly father for whatever reason, but that will never change the fact the you are your father's son and that your father is your father. The same thing applies in the spiritual realm. BELIEVE IT.
A son may remain a son, but a disobedient son can be disinherited. And that is what salvation is - an inheritance.