Revelation and Tribulations???

zone · May 14, 2011

jer25:32. Thus said the lord of host,behold evil shall go forth from nation to nation,and a great wirlwind shall be raised up from the coast of the earth.

V33. AND THE SLAIN OF THE LORD SHALL BE AT THAT DAY FROM ONE END OF THE EARTH EVEN UNTO THE OTHER END OF THE EARTH: tHEY SHALL NOT BE LAMENTED, NEITHER GATHERED, NOR BURRIED; THEY SHALL BE DUNG UPON THE GROUND.

V34. HOWL YE SHEPPERDS, AND CRY: AND WALLOW YOURSELVES IN THE ASHES,YE PRINCIPAL OF THE FLOCK: FOR THE DAYS OF YOUR SLAUGHTER AND YOUR DESPERSION ARE ACCOMPLISHED; AND YE SHALL FALL LIKE A PLEASANT VESSEL.

V35. AND THE SHEPHERDS SHALL HAVE NO WAY TO FLEE, NOR THE PRINCIPAL OF THE FLOCK TO ESCAPE.

V36. A voice of the cry of the shepherds,and an howling of the principal of the flock, shall be heard: FOR THE LORD HAS SPOILED THEIR PASTURE.

V37. And the peaceable habitation are cut down BECAUSE OF THE FIERCE ANGER OF THE LORD.

V38.He hath forsaken his covert as the lion: THEIR LAND IS DESOLATE, because of the fierceness of the OPPRESSOR and because of his fierce anger.

If it is doom, than it is to those that are not in the truth.But to the ones in christ it is of great joy, the Lord is coming soon.There will be mourning as if the mourning of a first born son.
Keep on refusing to see, deny, deny. dont look, turn your head around; no one will see.
It will be fine, God loves us, he wont harm us,lets praise him,we will soften his heart, no harm can come to us. This is the attitude, how foolish.

''wakeup''.

WHY ARE YOU WAVING JEREMIAH AT US?????

AnandaHya · May 14, 2011

1Covenant said:

Admittedly the book of Revelations is a difficult book and I am not entirely sure that anyone has got it all right, including me, and because of that I will also avoid an in-depth argument in chat rooms. I respect that others opinions differ and that they are or have struggled to arrive at where they are in the matter. I also accept that some may feel the need to thwart this post but I present this only as a view that was not known to me until about 10 years ago. Prior to that I was a dispensationalist in my view, believeing in the multiple comings of Christ (or the secret rapture) as one who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture.

I wish only to set it out there for those still struggling through Revelation and you may use this to bolster your own view or just be educated in other people's opinion. However, I will state again, that do to the expansive nature of the arguments I will not enter into any long debate in a chat room. Though I may entertain phone call conversations or if one is close by a face to face.

That being said, I myself have found the most comfort and consistency with the recapitulation view of the book also known by other names such as parallelism, etc. I find this view consistent with the introductory of the book that the book is written for me and the strengthening of my faith as opposed to being relegated to a simple curiosity for me and of extreme help to some future group.

I have included a website that does a sufficient job outlining the thought they it is not at all exhaustive in nature. Please keep that in mind - it is a simple overview and not in-depth. Click the link Below...

Enjoying God Ministries

The point of particular interest is how the book is divided in cyclical sections, each ending in some manner. A side note is that some folks divide it into 8 cycles rather than seven but again this site is a simple overview of the main idea.

To me one of the strongest evidences of this view is Revelation 12 which seems to stop the modern progressive view of Revelation and back track at the beginning of it. Rev 12 also corresponds very nicely to the words of Christ in John 12.
In both passages we have the foretelling of Christ's victory:

John - Christ being lifted up (his death and resurrection)
Rev - The baby's (Christ's) ascension

John - He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life
Rev - And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

John - The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified...Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself
Rev - Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

Other Parallels
The nations flow into the kingdom as Christ promises in John 12 and evidenced by what is recorded in Rev 12 Christ has been lifted up who rules the nations.
Later Rev. repeats this that Satan has been cast him into the bottomless pit...so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Satan is bound from accusing the brethren in Heaven as he did of Old in recorded scripture and so he is bound on earth not to deceive the nations.
Herein are the rulers we wrestle against are bound up where it says that Christ has made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. This is the great story and the one that all men (Jew and Gentile) are invited into.

There are also two women in view in Revelation. The woman of faith and the harlot. These are no different that the women of OT history of the righteous woman and the harlot.
The OT describes Jezebel, delilah, etc in opposition to Ruth, Ester, etc.
Proverbs also recalls the harlot and the faithful woman. These are the faithful in contrast to the wicked who have serve other gods.

If these are pictures of the faithful bride of Christ and the wicked then likewise we should see it in the NT and indeed the church is called to be faithful to our husband as it said "For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Herein I have made the point that the 144,000 of Rev. 7 is made up of the Church universal represented in the passage as both the tribes of Israel and uncountable number of the nations (12 tribes x 12 apostles x multitude = 144000). Then it should be no surprise that in the context of the imagery of Revelation that these are virgins following their husband (the lamb) in Revelation 14.

The list goes on but I will stop with this one last picture which are a series of variations on the theme of being prepared for and united in Christ.

The scripture says that we are the body of Christ and at the same time elsewhere the analogy is used that we are spiritual stones being made into a spiritual house. This too is in Revelations. For it says we are pillars in the Temple of God in Heaven, yet it says later that in heaven there is no Temple in Heaven for Christ is there and he is the Temple.

This blessed picture of consummation and unity is also in the OT when Solomon builds the temple. The stones are quarried and shaped outside the city. The anguish the stones undergo to be shaped and built into a spiritual house does not occur on the glorious site. But is the point of God mentioning this just so that engineers marvel at the precision that must have occurred to make this possible. No, for the spiritual house that we are being prepared for will be glorious and our shaping will be complete when we arrive in the glorious City of God to the Temple of God - Christ in heaven. We (the redeemed of Jew and Gentile) are the bride that once longed for the great day in absence from her betrothed, as in the parable of the ten virgins, now being united with the groom as one flesh for which time we have remained as chaste virgins.

You see Revelation holds great faith-building messages for us today beyond this simple continuity of the whole Counsel of God that I am presenting but one must first accept the continuity of the whole counsel in order to accept the message even as the Jews must still accept the continuity of Christ.

Respectfully Submitted

thank you the parallels do help with the understanding.

i will study and pray upon it some more.

wakeup · May 14, 2011

zone said:

Are you feeling insecure zone?
Your doctrine is all mingled up, it can not stand against the truth.
It will collaps,for it is too porous there is no substance to it.

wakeup · May 14, 2011

zone said:

Did you not ask me for scripture evidence? accusing me of preaching doom?

wakeup · May 14, 2011

AnandaHya said:

If some things seem confusing to you i can understand,just ask.
This is how you learn more knowledge.

AnandaHya · May 14, 2011

more personal attacks. interesting...

1 Peter 2:1-5 (New King James Version)

1 Peter 2

1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,[a] 3 if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

The Chosen Stone and His Chosen People

4 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

AnandaHya · May 14, 2011

wakeup said:

i have asked but I find that your answers do not follow scripture.

I do not know if this is intentional or not.

zone · May 14, 2011

wakeup said:

yawn......

turn off the televangelists and get real wakeup.
jeremiah's job was filled long ago, mission accomplished for those prophecies. you're a couple thousand years too late.

try living on this side of Calvary for a change....you might find THE REAL JESUS.

AnandaHya · May 15, 2011

zone said:

zone I think you misread Wakeup. His sources are not televangelist. that would concern me less.

try these Bible verses:

Revelation 16:13-14 (New King James Version)
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and[a] of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

I pray that I'm wrong but sometimes I have meet spirits and I test them and one test is I ask them as I asked Wakeup who has yet to answer.

"Who is Jesus to you?"

The answer is very telling. Do you know what the demons say? they sidestep and change the topic.
When people use tactics of demons to debate scripture it makes me question motive. call it my supicious nature. Any angel from God can past the tests, any child of God will also know the answers to the questions.

So wakeup what is your answer?

Here's a clue of the kind of answers demons have given me.

Luke 4:41
And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!” And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ.

yeah yeah yeah I don't talk to demons they talk to me and I quote them scripture and pray that God makes them leave me alone.

approaching_armageddon · May 15, 2011

I highly recommend that you read my book on Revelation: Approaching Armageddon: Disaster, War and Persecution. You can "look inside" at Amazon and get a feel for some of the main claims I make.

It is my firm conviction that the teaching of the book of Revelation should comfort and confirm God's people. Iw as written for our encouragement. The only bad news it contains is bad news for the wicked.

Kind Regards,
Dan

55scuba · May 15, 2011

The Bible says that all who read this book Rev 1:3
Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

wakeup · May 16, 2011

AnandaHya said:

I am giving you knowledge you can reject if you choose so,God knows,i have done my part.

wakeup · May 16, 2011

zone said:

Youare refusing to see what the scriptures say.
God mentions the whole earth, not just israel.
You are rejecting Gods word because to you its old,its dead forget about those prophesies.
They have gone stale,what you are doing is rejecting knowledge,you have been sitting on your lees for too long.
we have two witnesses,the old testament and the new tasrament,working hand in hand.
One can not do without the other.

wakeup · May 16, 2011

AnandaHya said:

zone I think you misread Wakeup. His sources are not televangelist. that would concern me less.

try these Bible verses:

Revelation 16:13-14 (New King James Version)
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and[a] of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

I pray that I'm wrong but sometimes I have meet spirits and I test them and one test is I ask them as I asked Wakeup who has yet to answer.

"Who is Jesus to you?"

The answer is very telling. Do you know what the demons say? they sidestep and change the topic.
When people use tactics of demons to debate scripture it makes me question motive. call it my supicious nature. Any angel from God can past the tests, any child of God will also know the answers to the questions.

So wakeup what is your answer?

Here's a clue of the kind of answers demons have given me.

Luke 4:41
And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!” And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ.

yeah yeah yeah I don't talk to demons they talk to me and I quote them scripture and pray that God makes them leave me alone.

May i ask you a question? Why are these demons hanging around you? why dont you cast them out in the name of Jesus? Tell them to go away; I have nothing to do with you.

wakeup · May 16, 2011

AnandaHya said:

zone I think you misread Wakeup. His sources are not televangelist. that would concern me less.

try these Bible verses:

Revelation 16:13-14 (New King James Version)
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and[a] of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
The gragon? satan ? how come. According to zone SATAN is in prison.
satan is the prince of this world? How come, according to zone SATAN is in prison?

I pray that I'm wrong but sometimes I have meet spirits and I test them and one test is I ask them as I asked Wakeup who has yet to answer.

"Who is Jesus to you?"I have answered you; I believe what Peter believe; THOU ART THE SON OF GOD THE MESIAH.

The answer is very telling. Do you know what the demons say? they sidestep and change the topic.
When people use tactics of demons to debate scripture it makes me question motive. call it my supicious nature. Any angel from God can past the tests, any child of God will also know the answers to the questions.

So wakeup what is your answer? SEE ABOVE AND ALSO MY QUOTES TO YOU.

Here's a clue of the kind of answers demons have given me.

Luke 4:41
And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!” And He, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that He was the Christ.
Why are you still communicating with DEMONS? You worry me.
yeah yeah yeah I don't talk to demons they talk to me and I quote them scripture and pray that God makes them leave me alone.

Cast them out or do you want me to do it for you?

wakeup · May 16, 2011

55scuba said:

You know what they say; you dont need to reed the book of revelation, its a mystery
we dont have to worry,cause we will be taken up before it all happen.

zone · May 16, 2011

wakeup said:

so we can just pull verses out of a hat and randomly apply them?
if you offered some context and background to the OT prophet's words, and why you personally think they apply today, that would be one thing: but i see them used as if God were speaking those very words to christians in 2011 - again, are you certain you want to do that?

AnandaHya · May 16, 2011

wakeup said:

I have prayed and told them "the Lord Rebuke you" They disappear. However then I meet people who come and try and plant what they say into my head. PEOPLE not spirits who speak the same lies and deceptions they were sprouting earlier. I know they are lies because demons were trying to convince me of them.

Plus most of the time they only show up in my dreams and at night when I'm sleeping. which is why I tend to be on this site on nights a lot. studying scripture and talking to people about God tend to make them go away.

I very rarely have any waking visions of demons and I do pray and ask God for guidance and protection before going to talk to the person being tormented by the demon. Its not an every day or even month thing.

but anyway wakeup, i tend to test anyone's words against what the BIBLE tells us is Truth. I hope you don't get offended but if your words don't line up with scripture, I will have to question and ask you to clarify. If you don't know then I would appreciate an honest answer not a sidestepping one where you say "that's what scripture says" because the point is I DON"T agree with you. I DON"T think THAT is WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS and would appreciate if you would explain WHY you do.

peterT · May 23, 2011

trust_in_the_name said:

This will give you a reference to some of the related scriptures which are found outside Revelation.

There is yet to occur on this earth a certain seven year period known as the last week of the seventy weeks in the prophecy of the book of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27). The latter half of this seven years is a time of wrath and judgment from God, described in detail in Revelation chapters 6-19.

The Scriptures indicate that the Lord will return and remove those who are faithful to Him at the beginning of the time of wrath and judgment (1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:3; Luke 21:34-36; Revelation 3:10), which occurs immediately after the man of sin is revealed (Daniel 9:27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4; Matthew 24:15-44). During this time (Matthew 24:15-21), that is, the great tribulation, God will send upon the unbelieving world a great deception unlike anything this world has ever known (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) through the means of the Devil himself (Revelation 13). Many will turn to Christ at this time (Revelation 7:9-17), but the rest will be deceived and follow after the lie.

At the end of this period, the Lord Jesus Christ will come down from heaven and take complete control and rule over the entire world (Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 19:11-20:6). He will set up His kingdom and reward those who were faithful to Him, and judge those who were not (Matthew 25:31-46).
After a thousand year reign on the earth, a rebellion will break out against Christ, the then ruling King, but the rebels will not prevail (Revelation 20:7-10). After this, the Lord will burn up the entire universe (2 Peter 3:7,10) and execute a final judgment on mankind (Revelation 20:11-15; 21:1).

He will then make a new universe and a new earth (in perfection) where righteousness and holiness reigns, and all those of all the ages who walked with God will forever enjoy His presence and blessing (Psalm 16:11; 2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21, 22).

that’s are future
Nowhere in the Bible does a resurrection, or rapture take place before the great tribulation.
It is a delusion, it’s just smoke and mirrors, designed by the devil and his FALSE PROPHETS to keep God’s children in the dark and unprepared.

silverwind · May 26, 2011

AnandaHya said:

I'd like to give my 2 cents if I may on this subject.

Ephesians 6:12 clearly states who we wrestle against. Not flesh and blood, rather against the dark powers, the principalities of the air. Who hangs out there? in the air? Think about it. I'd like to link you to a video that you need to watch all the way to the end.
YouTube - ‪UFO mainstream media coverage MASS SIGHTINGS taking place‬&rlm;

The book of Revelation is a book to prepare us for what is coming. (whether you're pre-trib, post-trib or whatever-trib) We need to start looking up and preparing to stand FIRM in our FAITH! I cannot stress that enough.

Who are we going to meet 'in the air'? The Rapture has NOT happened yet. When the dead in Christ rise, graves will open, and those believers that are 'alive and remain' will be caught up. I believe the Rapture will be a rescue from the powers of the air who are becoming more and more known to mankind. (call them UFO's if you want to)

Personally I believe Satan's ultimate plan is to deceive humans into thinking and accepting an 'alien invasion' which is being fabricated to save mankind from ultimate destruction. (a lie) I believe that what Satan wants people to think is that aliens are coming to "rescue" us. A new movie that is out now is called 'Mars needs Moms'.. it's all a way of preparing humans that aliens need us. There are many more movies (past and present) that are meant to prepare you and I for this alien LIE.

Two other interesting videos that refer to the sci-fi movies everyone loves so much are as follows.

YouTube - ‪PART 1 COMET ELENIN WILL IT STRIKE THE EARTH.ALERT PLEASE WATCH ALERT‬&rlm; (watch both parts)

Seal 6 is the beginning of the end. I think we are very close to that Seal becoming a reality soon.

(just my 2 cents)

Revelation and Tribulations???

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