Revelation and Tribulations???

[FireOnTheAltar]

I'd like to give my 2 cents if I may on this subject.

Ephesians 6:12 clearly states who we wrestle against. Not flesh and blood, rather against the dark powers, the principalities of the air. Who hangs out there? in the air? Think about it. I'd like to link you to a video that you need to watch all the way to the end.
YouTube - ‪UFO mainstream media coverage MASS SIGHTINGS taking place‬‏

The book of Revelation is a book to prepare us for what is coming. (whether you're pre-trib, post-trib or whatever-trib) We need to start looking up and preparing to stand FIRM in our FAITH! I cannot stress that enough.

Who are we going to meet 'in the air'? The Rapture has NOT happened yet. When the dead in Christ rise, graves will open, and those believers that are 'alive and remain' will be caught up. I believe the Rapture will be a rescue from the powers of the air who are becoming more and more known to mankind. (call them UFO's if you want to)

Personally I believe Satan's ultimate plan is to deceive humans into thinking and accepting an 'alien invasion' which is being fabricated to save mankind from ultimate destruction. (a lie) I believe that what Satan wants people to think is that aliens are coming to "rescue" us. A new movie that is out now is called 'Mars needs Moms'.. it's all a way of preparing humans that aliens need us. There are many more movies (past and present) that are meant to prepare you and I for this alien LIE.

Two other interesting videos that refer to the sci-fi movies everyone loves so much are as follows.

YouTube - ‪PART 1 COMET ELENIN WILL IT STRIKE THE EARTH.ALERT PLEASE WATCH ALERT‬‏ (watch both parts)

Seal 6 is the beginning of the end. I think we are very close to that Seal becoming a reality soon.

(just my 2 cents)

Years ago, before I was saved, some friends and I were discussing "the rapture". At the time I was raised to believe in a pre-trib view. At some point the question was raised: "How will the governments of the earth attempt to explain away millions of open graves as well as possibly millions people vanishing into this air in the blink of an eye? How will the church be able to cope with and carry on knowing full well that the only biblical explaination of these events is the rapture? Seeing as I have a scientific mind and in the past have indulged in a bit of science fiction, the only feesable excuse that I personally could come up with was a mass alien abduction. Out of curiousity, I began to watch tv shows on the hysteria behind alien abduction as well as stuff about the rapture all the time trying to piece the two together as an occassional hobby.

After the Lord saw fit to save me, I began to rethink this endtime theory. Something deep in my heart told me that this idea was wrong yet no matter how I tried to put the pieces of the puzzle together, it just didn't make a sense from either a rational or scientific point of view. The physical limitation of deep space travel as well as the vastness of space itself seemed to be too big of an obsticale for any "physical race of beings" to overcome.

I then began to turn my attentions toward a pandemic (global viral outbreak) possibly being explained away as the culprit seeing as it was for more likely for something like this to occur. However, for this to be the explaination, the physical bodies of those having been raptured would have to fall to the ground dead and it would not explain million of open graves which coincides with popular pre-trib traditions.

Finally one day I caught a segment of a teaching on the endtimes from a guy who held to a post trib perspective. He then began to compare the events with the book of Revelation with the events of the Exodus. I found the parallels to be astounding. Afterwards I decided that I had to study this out for myself. I began to look at all the verses that people claim to prove the pre-trib view in context from an unbiased perspective and no matter how many times I read them or how I put them together, it simply did not make sense. The nail in the coffin for me was Matthew 24 which lead me to re-read the Exodus accounts in coordination with the Revelation account. I then persoonally drew the conclussion that the Rapture must occur at the 6th Seal & the 7th trump in the book of Revelation (chapter 6). Ironically, it is the same view that the guy holds to who had taught the teaching I had seen even though I didn't get see that part. I took it as verification that he and I both drew the same conclussion from seperate studies. However, more importantly, my spirit was now at ease.

I personally approach the pre-trib / post trib / whatever trib from this perspective: no matter which perspective that you hold to, the responsible thing to do is to make others aware of the other perspectives. Could you imagine being a believer who was taught nothing but a pre-trib perspective only to find yourself, your family and your entire church smack dab in the middle of the Great Tribulation? Thousands if not millions will abandon the faith because they had been taught that they have missed the rapture and now there is no hope for them. Many will take the Mark because they either were not prepared (financially, mentally or emotionally) or believing that God had now abandoned them. I don't even want to consider the number of potential scuicides like what happened in China when Chinese Christians who believed that the rapture much occur great tribulation when they found themselves heavily persecuted as the Communists were taking over their government.

On the flip side, if we prepare people for post trib and Jesuss does return pre-trib, then we will miss the Great Tribulation, the only repercussion is that we were wrong - no physical harm has occured to anyone and we can all rejoice even more that we don't have to go through it!

 

[zone]

I personally approach the pre-trib / post trib / whatever trib from this perspective: no matter which perspective that you hold to, the responsible thing to do is to make others aware of the other perspectives.

totally agree!
Fire when that started to unravel for you, didn't a lot of other things come into focus?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

totally agree!
Fire when that started to unravel for you, didn't a lot of other things come into focus?

Oh yes.

 

[silverwind]

Well, you didn't get my point, but that's ok. Many people are NOT aware of how well the elite are preparing the minds of the masses for a "rapture". Oh they know the bible probably better than you. It grieves me to see so many believers reject the Rapture that is promised us in the Word, when that very event will be YOUR rescue from what is being feverishly planned as the biggest deception. Why do you think it's called "great tribulation"? But nm, I bet you didn't even look at the videos I posted. You are all set in your ways because you don't want to sway from what YOU believe.
"If the days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved"...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, you didn't get my point, but that's ok. Many people are NOT aware of how well the elite are preparing the minds of the masses for a "rapture". Oh they know the bible probably better than you. It grieves me to see so many believers reject the Rapture that is promised us in the Word, when that very event will be YOUR rescue from what is being feverishly planned as the biggest deception. Why do you think it's called "great tribulation"? But nm, I bet you didn't even look at the videos I posted. You are all set in your ways because you don't want to sway from what YOU believe.
"If the days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved"...

Amen sis!! God does not have to test Christians. They are already saved. This time of tribulation is called the hour of testing, or hour of trial, where God tests those who are on the earth to see if they will trust or reject him.

 

[silverwind]

Amen sis!! God does not have to test Christians. They are already saved. This time of tribulation is called the hour of testing, or hour of trial, where God tests those who are on the earth to see if they will trust or reject him.

I agree completely, thanks for that! "those that dwell on the earth" .. we should do a study on that, lol.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree completely, thanks for that! "those that dwell on the earth" .. we should do a study on that, lol.

Yes, There is a difference between the trials and tribulations scripture says the church goes through to help "grow us" in him, and help us learn to trust him. And the "hour of trial or testing which will come upon the inhabitants of the earth, (tribulation)

I guess just one church gets out of this testing, the rest have to go through it??

 

[zone]

Amen sis!! God does not have to test Christians. They are already saved. This time of tribulation is called the hour of testing, or hour of trial, where God tests those who are on the earth to see if they will trust or reject him.

we are not appointed to wrath: where does it say we are not appointed to tribulation?

pretrib says: “The rapture must be before the tribulation because God has not appointed us to wrath (1 Thess 5:9).... God has always delivered his people before he poured out his judgment (e.g. Noah, Lot, etc.).​

God’s wrath will not be poured out until after the tribulation.​

Matt 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:​

the sun and moon will be darkened after the tribulation.​

Rev 6:12-17
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;” And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?​

God’s wrath does not come until after the tribulation.​

Matt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

Mark 13:27
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

we see Him gathering His elect AFTER the tribulation, at the Second Advent.​

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”​

Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. ​

Matthew 24:22
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.​

 

[silverwind]

No one said anything about 'not being appointed to tribulation'. We (I myself) have plenty of that in our journey called LIFE. Zone, I know you and I disagree on some things, but you can speak to me directly in your posts, you don't need to go "through" someone else's posts . I firmly believe in a Rapture, that we will come OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION (on God's timing) and that there WILL BE a millenium. You know that I believe this and that Scripture tells us these things. I don't know why people have to drag this subject out and make it into 15 different interpretations (or more). There is far too much division going on and that is satan's work, not God's.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we are not appointed to wrath: where does it say we are not appointed to tribulation?

pretrib says: “The rapture must be before the tribulation because God has not appointed us to wrath (1 Thess 5:9).... God has always delivered his people before he poured out his judgment (e.g. Noah, Lot, etc.).​

God’s wrath will not be poured out until after the tribulation.​

Matt 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:​

the sun and moon will be darkened after the tribulation.​

Rev 6:12-17
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;” And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?​

God’s wrath does not come until after the tribulation.​

Matt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

Mark 13:27
And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

we see Him gathering His elect AFTER the tribulation, at the Second Advent.​

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.’”​

Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. ​

Matthew 24:22
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.​

Gods wrath IS the tribulation. Not after. It is AFTER the tribulation in which he returns and actually comes to earth to defeat the armies aligned against jerusalem (armogeddon)

And of course jesus when he returns gathers those who died during this time of tribulation, who did not recieved the number of the beast. Why would he not?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one said anything about 'not being appointed to tribulation'. We (I myself) have plenty of that in our journey called LIFE. Zone, I know you and I disagree on some things, but you can speak to me directly in your posts, you don't need to go "through" someone else's posts . I firmly believe in a Rapture, that we will come OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION (on God's timing) and that there WILL BE a millenium. You know that I believe this and that Scripture tells us these things. I don't know why people have to drag this subject out and make it into 15 different interpretations (or more). There is far too much division going on and that is satan's work, not God's.

Agreed. It is not a salvic doctrine. Yet I also know some who believe it is (rolls eyes) it is a sad day huh??..

 

[zone]

No one said anything about 'not being appointed to tribulation'. We (I myself) have plenty of that in our journey called LIFE. Zone, I know you and I disagree on some things, but you can speak to me directly in your posts, you don't need to go "through" someone else's posts . I firmly believe in a Rapture, that we will come OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION (on God's timing) and that there WILL BE a millenium. You know that I believe this and that Scripture tells us these things. I don't know why people have to drag this subject out and make it into 15 different interpretations (or more). There is far too much division going on and that is satan's work, not God's.

hi sw:
i wasn't speaking to you through anyone else's posts.
i'm not sure who started the OP, i'm sure it won't be the last, it is an issue for folks.
zone
ps: how was oregon?

 

[peterT]

Ok so I caved and now reading Revelations, again. will someone post some articles and websites or videos that I can watch to help me understand and decide for myself what it all means.

Personally I think we are in the middle of tribulations and Jesus came already during the 1st century and that was rapture and now we are in the era of the third seal but most don't agree with that reading of it.

i'm going to read study and pray about it and see where the Holy Spirit leads me.

Pre-post Rapture????

what if it happened already? and you have already missed the first boat and now you have to live through the trials???

why is everyone asleep about it???

I will pray about it and see. If you have some links or recommendations it would be greatly appreciated thanks.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Love from peter

 

[timothy10]

Ok so I caved and now reading Revelations, again. will someone post some articles and websites or videos that I can watch to help me understand and decide for myself what it all means.

Personally I think we are in the middle of tribulations and Jesus came already during the 1st century and that was rapture and now we are in the era of the third seal but most don't agree with that reading of it.

i'm going to read study and pray about it and see where the Holy Spirit leads me.

Pre-post Rapture????

what if it happened already? and you have already missed the first boat and now you have to live through the trials???

why is everyone asleep about it???

I will pray about it and see. If you have some links or recommendations it would be greatly appreciated thanks.

the first six seals will be broken one at a time and each seal will produce a judgement.the seventh seal will not produce a seventh judgement.instead, it will produce the seven trumpets.the first six trumpets each produce a judgement .but the seventh trumpet will produce seven bowls.when the seventh bowl is poured out,the tribulation period will come to an end.
the seven trumpets do not begin until the seventh seal is opened,and the seven bowls do not begin until the seventh trumpet is blown.

antichrist will be restrained and will not be revealed until the proper time.when the true church is raptured it will be time to start watching for the antichrist.he will not stand out at first so the best thing to look for will be a popular and powerful person.when he signs a seven year treatyto protect israel his identity will be known. read Daniel 9:27

First seal - rider on white horse - result the release of antichrist (Revelation 6:1-2)
second seal - rider on red horse- result removes peace,causes war(Revelation 6:3-4)
third seal - rider on black horse - result economic collapse and famine (Revelation 6:5-6)
fourth seal - rider on pale horse - result death of unbelievers-1/4 of world (Revelation 6:7-8)
fifth seal - souls under the altar - result persecution and death of believers (Revelation 6:9-11)
sixth seal - great earthquake - result cosmic upheaval(sun,moon,etc) (Revelation 6:12-14)
seventh seal - the 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2)
- And when he had opened the seventh seal,there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour- (Rev 8:1)
- And i saw the seven angels which stood before God ; and to them were given seven trumpets-(Rev 8:2)

-i dont belive the seals are opened but soon they will be-
-the seals,trumpets and the bowls will be in the order of the Bible there is no other way God will fulfill them according to his word-
-and yes i believe the seals are shut until the antichrist is revealed-
-yes earthquakes are mentioned in the seals and bowls-
-things are visable in the current world events and no the seals,trumpets and bowls are in the order on how it will happen but there are signs in the world now that time is at hand -

read (Matthew chapter 24)(Mark chapter 13) and (Luke chapter 21)

-here are a few that are happening in the world today-
international wars,famines,an increase in earthquakes,epidemics,strange natural disasters,revolutions,worldwide dissemination of the message of Jesus,persecution of christians,rampant immorality,unpredictable oceanic events,territorial boundary disputes in the middle east,an increase in unpredictable weather patterns,wars and rumors of wars,the formation of the nation of israel,instant worldwide communication,cataclysmic events,the gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached around the world.

The Rapture,first half of the tribulation 3 1/2 years -the seven seals,the seven trumpets & the seven key figures- The second half of the tribulation 3 1/2 years the seven bowls ,seven dooms on babylon
and Return of Jesus Christ.

 

[timothy10]

the first six seals will be broken one at a time and each seal will produce a judgement.the seventh seal will not produce a seventh judgement.instead, it will produce the seven trumpets.the first six trumpets each produce a judgement .but the seventh trumpet will produce seven bowls.when the seventh bowl is poured out,the tribulation period will come to an end.
the seven trumpets do not begin until the seventh seal is opened,and the seven bowls do not begin until the seventh trumpet is blown.

antichrist will be restrained and will not be revealed until the proper time.when the true church is raptured it will be time to start watching for the antichrist.he will not stand out at first so the best thing to look for will be a popular and powerful person.when he signs a seven year treatyto protect israel his identity will be known. read Daniel 9:27

First seal - rider on white horse - result the release of antichrist (Revelation 6:1-2)
second seal - rider on red horse- result removes peace,causes war(Revelation 6:3-4)
third seal - rider on black horse - result economic collapse and famine (Revelation 6:5-6)
fourth seal - rider on pale horse - result death of unbelievers-1/4 of world (Revelation 6:7-8)
fifth seal - souls under the altar - result persecution and death of believers (Revelation 6:9-11)
sixth seal - great earthquake - result cosmic upheaval(sun,moon,etc) (Revelation 6:12-14)
seventh seal - the 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2)
- And when he had opened the seventh seal,there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour- (Rev 8:1)
- And i saw the seven angels which stood before God ; and to them were given seven trumpets-(Rev 8:2)

-i dont belive the seals are opened but soon they will be-
-the seals,trumpets and the bowls will be in the order of the Bible there is no other way God will fulfill them according to his word-
-and yes i believe the seals are shut until the antichrist is revealed-
-yes earthquakes are mentioned in the seals and bowls-
-things are visable in the current world events and no the seals,trumpets and bowls are in the order on how it will happen but there are signs in the world now that time is at hand -

read (Matthew chapter 24)(Mark chapter 13) and (Luke chapter 21)

-here are a few that are happening in the world today-
international wars,famines,an increase in earthquakes,epidemics,strange natural disasters,revolutions,worldwide dissemination of the message of Jesus,persecution of christians,rampant immorality,unpredictable oceanic events,territorial boundary disputes in the middle east,an increase in unpredictable weather patterns,wars and rumors of wars,the formation of the nation of israel,instant worldwide communication,cataclysmic events,the gospel of Jesus Christ will be preached around the world.

The Rapture,first half of the tribulation 3 1/2 years -the seven seals,the seven trumpets & the seven key figures- The second half of the tribulation 3 1/2 years the seven bowls ,seven dooms on babylon
and Return of Jesus Christ.

im sorry about this post it wasent supposed to be posted here someone was messing with my computer