REVELATION STUDY

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,209
604
113
Moses and Elijah have both stepped out of time into eternity upon their deaths.
Elijah didn't die.

Since they have gone on to an eternal existence they would have to have glorified bodies in order to enter Heaven.
A glorified body is not needed to enter heaven.


As such, they would have appeared on the mount in their glorified forms.
So you think the OT saints have already been resurrected? Ahead of the NT dead in Christ? Why would they be resurrected before the NT dead? Does any scripture support two resurrections, one being before the cross and one at the second coming?
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
829
239
43
66
Malachi 4:5-6 tells us SPECIFICALLY that Elijah is sent to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord. Elijah was the Spiritual Prophet, Moses was the Law Prophet. Thus we get the Spirit and the Law Prophets, the Old Testament likeness, and the new testament likeness. We know one is Elijah, and Moses showed up at the transfiguration with Elijah. Them "DYING" in Rev. 11 makes my point, God allowed them to be killed like he did Jesus, but Raised them back up, Jesus took his sane body to Heaven. The only reason they are allowed to die is so we can see EXACTLY when their 1260 days end vs the Beast's 1260 days. There s no other reason, God could have just taken them straight to Heaven, but he allowed their deaths, and thus this world will know that their TIMELINES and the east 1260 day TIMELINES do not parallel exactly, thus they are the 1335 BLESSING. This also shows that the 7th Trump blows with 75 days left in the 1260 day rule of the Beast.



Elijah and whoever the there Witness is (I see it as Moses) will have Glorious bodies.


Elijah is sent back, I see the other Witnesses as Moses. I am speaking of the Two-witnesses.
That is udder nonsense. Your conclusions are not proof. Proof would be Scripture saying that the two witnesses were these two men. It does not.

I take no particular argument with some of your other conclusions but trying to make the two witnesses something they are not, neither helps your case or hurts it. There are two witnesses, eventually they are put to death, their bodies lay in public view, God resurrects them, (Which is going to shock a lot of people in the tribulation), and they are taken up. It matters not who they are.
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
829
239
43
66
Jesus is God, thus his body was ALWAYS Glorified.
Again you deny Scripture with your unsupported follishness. Scripture clearly says:

1 ) As the second person of the God-Head, the Eternal Son, He always had glory which He shared with His Father.
2 ) That Jesus Christ was that "holy thing" when he took on flesh and became the God-man.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.

3 ) The man Jesus, who is fully God and fully man, was not walking around on this earth in a glorified/ transfigured body. For Scripture says:

Luke 1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
Mat_21:18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
John 4:6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
John 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said unto her, Give me to drink.


These four verses, prove that Jesus GREW just like ordinary men. He went from a babe to a young boy and then a man. That he became hungry, like every other man. He could become weary and tired. He also thirsted and needed water to drink. These are all normal functions of the human body. BUT they are NOT the normal way of the glorified body that is not made by the hands of man.

Are should I say these things are not the way of the transfigured body. I notice you do like to play word games, even though you know what the writer is talking about.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
759
78
28
That is udder nonsense. Your conclusions are not proof. Proof would be Scripture saying that the two witnesses were these two men. It does not.

I take no particular argument with some of your other conclusions but trying to make the two witnesses something they are not, neither helps your case or hurts it. There are two witnesses, eventually they are put to death, their bodies lay in public view, God resurrects them, (Which is going to shock a lot of people in the tribulation), and they are taken up. It matters not who they are.
Can you not read brother? I stated that one of the Witnesses is FOR SURE Elijah and the other is, "IMHO" Moses because like Elijah he was at the Transfiguration with Jesus, and he was a PLAGUE BRINGER to Egypt !! It does matter who they are because God says ONE IS Elijah and God can't lie. When a man comes to the Jews and says REpent, and one says I am Elijah and the other says I am Moses, this will BOOST the Jews Faith in Jesus somewhat, it has to, 1/3 of the Jews ACCEPT Jesus. Of course, the Rapture happens before this and they will see like one(1) Billion Christians all die at the same time (which is what happens at the Rapture, our CORRUPT BODIES must be CHANGED in a moments notice unto INCORRUPT Spirits, just like those who are dead in Christ are raised without CORRUPTION (Flesh Bodies) as Spirit men.

Again you deny Scripture with your unsupported follishness. Scripture clearly says:
You seem to like calling people fools and nonsensical people, well I understand the end times better than anyone you ever met, that is for sure. I am way advanced on these things, so much so I see it happening in real-time, it's not guesswork for me.

His BODY was ALWAYS Glorified means from the time he was BORN. In Heaven, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal beings. We all know that, it's OBVIOUS.

1 ) As the second person of the God-Head, the Eternal Son, He always had glory which He shared with His Father.
2 ) That Jesus Christ was that "holy thing" when he took on flesh and became the God-man.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also the holy thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.

3 ) The man Jesus, who is fully God and fully man, was not walking around on this earth in a glorified/ transfigured body. For Scripture says:

Luke 1:80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
Mat_21:18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
John 4:6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
John 4:7 There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus said unto her, Give me to drink.


These four verses, prove that Jesus GREW just like ordinary men. He went from a babe to a young boy and then a man. That he became hungry, like every other man. He could become weary and tired. He also thirsted and needed water to drink. These are all normal functions of the human body. BUT they are NOT the normal way of the glorified body that is not made by the hands of man.

Are should I say these things are not the way of the transfigured body. I notice you do like to play word games, even though you know what the writer is talking about.
This is getting WEIRD, Jesus knew no sin thus he always lived in a sin-free body, his he always ad a Glorious (Sin-Free) body. You saying the son of God has not always been Glorious? Get out.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
759
78
28
Agreed. Many false teachings!
That would be you, sir, a person jumping on a guy's BANDWAGON who says Jesus was not always Glorious because I called you out as not understanding Eschatology which you don't. So, this guy who says Jesus was not always Glorious is all of the sudden telling it like it is? LOL. Now that's funny. Two peas in a pod. You still do not understand Eschatology sir, that's not knocking you, that is just me telling you that is not your calling, a foot should not try to be a hand. It is what it is.

God Bless. You reckon the te Galatians got Angry when Paul called them out? I doubt it. You are trying to teach that which you do not understand, yet I, as a preacher and teacher of Eschatology for 35 years, can't say that to you without you getting offended it seems. I don't understand tbh. When you get to heaven and find out I was telling you the truth, maybe you will understand at that time.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
759
78
28
Yes, I have been a Preacher of End Time Eschatology for 35 years. I have an Exegesis on Daniel 11 that names every king, how they came to power, all the payers, and all the palace intrigue. I spent months on this like I said it's my calling, it's what I do daily.

Bold statement. Do you have proof of this?
If you don't know this something is off-kilter. I don't play semantic games.

You're adding to the text. Jews are only from Judah. There are 11 more tribes mentioned. There are two mentions of "144000" in Revelation, which adds to 288k. This references King David's personal army of 288k men - divided into 12 divisions - who guarded the nation and temple (1 Chronicle 27). When going to war in the OT the men were required to abstain from women so as to not become corrupted. There are 12 gates on New Jerusalem, one for each tribe so it's not symbolic. It's the personal army of the Messiah, redeemed from men and the personal possession of the Almighty (just like the Levites were His personal possession in the OT).
Wow, so you don't understand that there were never any LOST TRIBES? This is what I was speaking of earlier, men listening to men and not thinking logically, and listening to God via His word and is the Spirit. So, when the Northern Kingdoms were toted off, you do understand that EVERY TRIBE had SEED (People) living in Jerusalem right? Or have you never thought that through and just listened to the Armstrong false prophesies all your life and repeated their line without thinking? The Northern Kingdom was EVIL, so some evil men from Judah loved living there, no doubt they were toted off also, and likewise, many people who despised the evil Northern Kingdoms wicked ways lived in Jerusalem. Psstt, there were never any lost tribes just because all the Northern Lingdms were toted off, they just became ONE NATION as the Two Sticks Prophesy tells us would happen at the end of Ezekiel 37 if one reads it. Thus, they all had to live in Judah and over the years, after they got carried off to Babylon and back, eventually they became a part of the DOMINANT Judean culture where they lived at. After Jerusalem got sacked and they were carried off unto the ends of the world via the Diaspora, they ALL became known as Jews, but they were every tribe, they were just known as Jews. Thus when they returned, they returned as Jews but they are ALL 12 Tribes !! How you guys do not understand this is beyond me. Abraham started as ONE MAN, Why would you not understand if only 2 Men from every tribe remained in Jerusalem (there were many more than that of course) then the SEED would still be there from every tribe.

The 144,000 - ALL Israel, just like Paul said would be saved, ALL Israel. And Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 of the Jews will REPENT. Must I post that scripture to get you to ACKNOWLEDGE that 1/3 of the Jews REPENT, which is not 144,000.

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Would you say a 1/3 of the Jews are 3-5 million Jews? I would.

Occam's Razor: The simplest explanation with the least assumptions added. You're adding the idea of a 70th week to the text given when it simply says His servants were killed for their testimony. Who are/were His servants that gave His testimony? His disciples. Where they killed for that testimony? Yes. Did He tell them they would be? Yes. When did it happen? 1st century before the destruction of the temple.
I wrote a blog about how the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, how the earth is 4.5 billion years old, about how the First Day lasts 9.2 billion years, and how the Sun and Moon crashing into each other SET THE SEASONS for the fourth day, thus God set the Season, He didn't create the Sun on the fourth day. I don't mind complicated as long as it is truth. You clearly do not understand the 70th week if you are saying the Seals are opened BEFORE the 70th week. And, as I knew you would do, you DODGED my illustration which shows the 7 Seals are not what yiu say, but are like unto 7 Locks on a door because it shows you guys are in obvious error on that issue. I always answer all points, because I have all the answers I need because I rely on the Holy Spirit, I don't have to doge points.

The Man in linen (who I agree was the pre-incarnate Messiah, since linen garments are High Priest garments), told Daniel that from the time the daily (sacrifice) is taken away until the abomination of desolation is set up shall be 1290 days (Daniel 12:11). This sets the start of the countdown until the Abomination of Desolation would stand, leading to the 1260 days.

Daniel knew what the daily was since he was a servant in the temple. The daily is the morning & evening sacrifice and the holy fire that was meant to burn continually (i.e. never let die). Daniel witnessed the daily taken away when Solomon's temple was desecrated in 606 BCE. 1290 days from 606 BCE brings us to approx. 603 BCE, which isn't a significant date at all. No abomination was built.

But when we read 1290 days as literal years, then 606 BCE + 1290 years = 685 CE which just so happens to be the date the Dome of the Rock was built in Jerusalem. So the timing of the tribulation to scatter the power of the holy people (after the abomination of desolation is set up) is also more plausibly interpreted as 1260 years, not days.

685 CE + 1260 years = 1945 CE (significant date)
685 CE + 1335 years = 2020 CE
None f this is years, you are in a ditch brother. It's 1335 days at the END TIMES during the 70th week.

The 1290 is the False Prophet taking away Jesus Worship from the Jews who REPENT when the Two-witnesses come forth at te 1335. The 1260 is the Anti-Christ. The 1335 comes first, the 1290 next, then the 1260. To be honest, I don't think you will ever get it because you are off on so many different things.

God Bless
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
829
239
43
66
Elijah didn't die.



A glorified body is not needed to enter heaven.




So you think the OT saints have already been resurrected? Ahead of the NT dead in Christ? Why would they be resurrected before the NT dead? Does any scripture support two resurrections, one being before the cross and one at the second coming?
Yes I did misspeak, when I threw Elijah under the heading of death. He was certainly taken out of time and translated into eternity but he did not die, just like Enoch.

Yes a glorified body or some might prefer a translated body, is needed to enter Heaven which is in eternity with God. Fore we know that flesh and blood, a body made by man, cannot enter because of the sin nature which is present in it. It is also a perishable body that is decaying at this present time. Paul told us we must first put off that which is corruptible and put on that which is incorruptible. A body prepared by God. (1 Cor. 15:51-54).

The three questions you asked about multiple resurrections and the OT Saints proceeding the NT saints are very good questions. Sadly however, to answer them would take hours and hours of study and reading. Additionally, posts on this site are limited as to size and this discussion, to do justice to it, would take up an entire book.

I am going to give some quick answers to them.

1 ) So you think the OT saints have already been resurrected? ANSWER:

Not exactly. One would not call it a resurrection. This question and the others goes to the proper understanding of ETERNITY and TIME. A most difficult subject to wrap ones mind around for sure. We as human beings, live a temporal existence. Everything to us, is about time, days, months and years. The past, the present and the future. These are all temporal concepts. None of these things apply to ETERNITY. Many have tried to define eternity. Some say it is a steady state of being. Others, time that never ends. All of these miss the boat.

Eternity, should be expressed as "The ever present NOW". There is no past or future. There is order in eternity but no time. Peter, under divine inspiration, expressed it like this:

2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

In other words, time means nothing to the Lord in eternity. However, His eternal plan is being, in part, executed in our temporal lives. So there are times and dates established by God's plans. A time to be born and a time to die. A time for Christ to come and a time for Him to die. A time for Him to come again. A time to establish the Kingdom and a time for the first resurrection and still another time for the second resurrection. Still with me?

However, in eternity, all of these things have already taken place. Indeed there was never a time when they had not taken place. Again, there is no time in eternity, only the ever present NOW. God from eternity, knows everything at once and everything is with Him in the now. Yeah, I know, mind blowing isn't it? That's because we are temporally bound in our thinking. To put ones mind in eternal gear is very difficult. Took me over twenty years to come to terms with eternity.

I said all that, so I could try to answer the question about the OT Saints and a resurrection.

First, the OT testament Saints are just as much in Christ as we are today as believers. Secondly, all of Christ's work on the cross, could be applied to every person that is being saved because His death, burial and resurrection were a sure and unstoppable thing. 1 ) Because it was already settled in eternity, 2) Because nothing can thwart God's plan. Knowing this, we know that God could apply the saving work of Jesus Christ to the OT Saints as if Jesus had died already. This is Positional Justification. All of the types and shadows of the Old Testament moved forward, in time, the sins of God's people (Conditional Sanctification) until the actual work of Christ was completed, on their behalf, in time. However, as viewed from eternity, these things had already taken place. Remember - there was never a time when they had not taken place because there is no past or future in eternity.

Therefore, while the resurrection of the dead is future to us who are trapped in a temporal existence, those who have stepped out of time into eternity have already been resurrected from their perspective. They are waiting on nothing. They are with the Lord in His Kingdom and all of the Saints are there too. It is the proper understanding of Eternity, that led Paul to say:

Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Php 1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.


Paul knew better than any man alive, that to die was gain and to be with the Lord was far better. The teaching of a purgatory by the Catholics or the teaching of soul sleep waiting on the resurrection is nothing short of heresy. Paul was expecting to be with the Lord the moment he died. If there was soul sleep, then he certainly would not have said that dying "is far better". The teaching of Purgatory and soul sleep, proves that the ones teaching such error understand nothing about Eternity and Time.

For a good read on this subject, I would suggest Eternity and Time by W. E. Best. You can find it online at WEBBMT.ORG. Where you can read it online and/or download it as a PDF. It is free.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions on the subject, I will try to answer them.

 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,209
604
113
That would be you, sir, a person jumping on a guy's BANDWAGON who says Jesus was not always Glorious because I called you out as not understanding Eschatology which you don't.
Ah, strong words but they lack any strength. Go ahead and think you are a 35 year long preacher who knows the truth. I don't even care :)

So, this guy who says Jesus was not always Glorious is all of the sudden telling it like it is?
He is obvious correct. Your position isn't even good enough to classify as a joke. Weak isn't a good enough word.


LOL. Now that's funny. Two peas in a pod. You still do not understand Eschatology sir, that's not knocking you, that is just me telling you that is not your calling, a foot should not try to be a hand. It is what it is.
Yawn.



God Bless. You reckon the te Galatians got Angry when Paul called them out? I doubt it. You are trying to teach that which you do not understand, yet I, as a preacher and teacher of Eschatology for 35 years, can't say that to you without you getting offended it seems. I don't understand tbh. When you get to heaven and find out I was telling you the truth, maybe you will understand at that time.
More pointless text. If I get to heaven, what you said whether true or false won't matter. A smaller yawn. This is what you have after 35 years? I suggest not mentioning that...
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
829
239
43
66
Can you not read brother? I stated that one of the Witnesses is FOR SURE Elijah and the other is, "IMHO" Moses because like Elijah he was at the Transfiguration with Jesus, and he was a PLAGUE BRINGER to Egypt !! It does matter who they are because God says ONE IS Elijah and God can't lie. When a man comes to the Jews and says REpent, and one says I am Elijah and the other says I am Moses, this will BOOST the Jews Faith in Jesus somewhat, it has to, 1/3 of the Jews ACCEPT Jesus. Of course, the Rapture happens before this and they will see like one(1) Billion Christians all die at the same time (which is what happens at the Rapture, our CORRUPT BODIES must be CHANGED in a moments notice unto INCORRUPT Spirits, just like those who are dead in Christ are raised without CORRUPTION (Flesh Bodies) as Spirit men.


You seem to like calling people fools and nonsensical people, well I understand the end times better than anyone you ever met, that is for sure. I am way advanced on these things, so much so I see it happening in real-time, it's not guesswork for me.

His BODY was ALWAYS Glorified means from the time he was BORN. In Heaven, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all eternal beings. We all know that, it's OBVIOUS.



This is getting WEIRD, Jesus knew no sin thus he always lived in a sin-free body, his he always ad a Glorious (Sin-Free) body. You saying the son of God has not always been Glorious? Get out.
A little proud and boastful are we?

I would never make such claims as "well I understand the end times better than anyone you ever met..." and "I am way advanced on these things". Well I am afraid that I am just a poor wretch, saved by God's grace, thirty-two years ago and led by the Holy Spirit ever sense. My motto is simple-- Let God be True and every man a liar.

Oh, by the way, the Scriptures teach nowhere that there are going to be "spirit" men. I would love to see those proof texts.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,209
604
113
A little proud and boastful are we?

I would never make such claims as "well I understand the end times better than anyone you ever met..." and "I am way advanced on these things". Well I am afraid that I am just a poor wretch, saved by God's grace, thirty-two years ago and led by the Holy Spirit ever sense. My motto is simple-- Let God be True and every man a liar.

Oh, by the way, the Scriptures teach nowhere that there are going to be "spirit" men. I would love to see those proof texts.

I see wisdom and humility in you posts. I haven't read much of your posts yet but I look forward to. I will reply to your post to me tmr.
 

lamad

Active member
Apr 14, 2021
789
49
28
You still have not demonstrated how or where scripture calls any of these the antichrist. You are calling them that, but scripture is not.
You missed one verse:

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

John is telling us that someone titled "antichrist" shall come." Although Paul or John did not title him as such in the epistles or in Revelation makes no difference. John has given him this title here.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
759
78
28
Ah, strong words but they lack any strength. Go ahead and think you are a 35 year long preacher who knows the truth. I don't even care :)
I am about to treat you like I did on two other boars, totally ignore you.

More pointless text. If I get to heaven, what you said whether true or false won't matter. A smaller yawn. This is what you have after 35 years? I suggest not mentioning that...
No, I will henceforth ignore you from now on, you bring nothing to the conversation, and pretty much everything you espouse is wrong and always has been. I don't know why I gave you another chance, I knew how this would wind up.

I guess when you get to Heaven you will then understand, but I doubt you ever get End Time Eschatology while on earth.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
759
78
28
A little proud and boastful are we?

I would never make such claims as "well I understand the end times better than anyone you ever met..." and "I am way advanced on these things". Well I am afraid that I am just a poor wretch, saved by God's grace, thirty-two years ago and led by the Holy Spirit ever sense. My motto is simple-- Let God be True and every man a liar.

Oh, by the way, the Scriptures teach nowhere that there are going to be "spirit" men. I would love to see those proof texts.
You are confused about the scriptures, I am not confused. I am not, that's a big difference, anyone who thinks the Seals have been opened I won't usually even converse with on Eschatology because it's a waste of time. If you can't get the simple things like that right you are lost on a bowl letters brother. Another hand trying to be a foot.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
759
78
28
Chapters Eight
The Seventh Seal and The Seven Trumpets

I. The Background of the Seven Trumpets, 1-6
It is important to remember that what is revealed in chapters seven, eight, and nine are all part of the same scene of chapter 6 in the opening of the seals. The opening of the seals in chapter six is a pronouncement of judgment. The object of that judgment is Jerusalem and the Jewish state. They are the persecuting powers at that time, and the sounding of the seven trumpets signaled the end of Jerusalem, the temple, and the Jewish state. God is about to destroy their world.

The scene of the seven trumpets would have great significance to the Jewish Christians because they knew the story of Joshua and the destruction of Jericho in Joshua 6. As Israel prepared to march on Jericho, Joshua instructed them to, “Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests carry seven trumpets of rams’ horns before the ark of the Lord,” Joshua 6:6.
The Chapter 8 Trumps

The First Trump is Fire that comes in from the asteroid ahead of the Impact. The 2nd Trump is the Impact. The 3rd Trump is the Nuclear Fallout from the impact. The Fourth Trump is the sun and moon going dark (Seal 6 Prophecy/Joel 2:31 prophecy). All four are the beginning of the Day of the Lord (1260 event).

This is when the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering, WHY NOW? Why does one not get strategy? It's easier to conquer a wounded world when you know via Satan that an Asteroid is on a collision course with earth, the best way to take over control of said world is to wait for the chaos. The impact will distract many nations and cripple many nations. Thus he pounces at the exact moment Satan the whisperer tells him to because he understands DARK SENTENCES as Dan. 8 tells us.

This is when ALL POINTS Book of Revelation converges.

1.) This is when Satan via the Anti-Christ chases the Woman(Israel) into the Wilderness in Rev. 12 (thus we saw her Fleeing Judea in Rev. 7, ahead of the DOTL event, the Woman is also the 144,000 or all Israel who repent, not every Jew.)

2.) This is when the Anti-Christ arises out of the Sea in Rev. 13 also, of course, and thus when he starts ruling for 42-months.

3.) This is when the Harlot gets "KILLED OFF" because the first thing the Anti-Christ will do is institute Beast Worship, there will be no allowance made for any other religion, including Islam. Thus he kills the Harlot off or Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. all at this time.

4.) Rev. 18 is of course the Judgment of the Whole World, and thus Satan gets CAST DOWN in verse 2, Israel is called to flee Judea in verse 4, and we see prose that forbears the "Worldy Man's Plight" on earth at this time via the 42 months of Judgment.

5.) Rev. 11 is slightly different thus it comes later on in my report. It actually starts BEFORE the Rev. 8 asteroid strike, by 75 days, and it ends 75 days before Jesus' Second Coming. Its about the 1260 day Ministry of the Two-witnesses.

6.) Rev. 14 and 19 are different also in that both chapters cover the Full 7 years of the 70th week. Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter and thus we see the Wheat (Israel) in verse 1 and the Tares in verses 17-20. But we also see a Flashback to the Pre Trib Rapture in verse 14 likewise, in Rev. 19 we see the Newly Raptured Bride early on in Rev. 19 BEFORE she (WE) Marry the Lamb Jesus, then we see her returning to earth with Jesus on White Horses as Conquerors while the Beast is still on this earth. So, both cover the full 7 years.

The Coming Three Woes are DEFINED in Rev. 8:13, they will be the Last Three Trumpet Judgments, thus Trump #7 is the 7 Vials and it is also the 3rd Woe. Thus when the 7th Trump is blown IT WIL........EVENTUALLY, END IT ALL........But that happens in Rev. 16. Thus Rev. 11 can proclaim victory via the 7th Trump WITHOUT going into the details, just like the 2nd Woe was described in Rev. 11, WITHOUT going into the details that we saw in Rev. 9. The details of the 7th Trump/3rd Woe/7 Vials are seen in Rev. 16.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
759
78
28
Revelation chapter 9, the Two Woes.

The First Woe is Demons being released from the pit (Rev. 18:2) and thus they come to Babylon (This World). They ravage earthlings for 5 months but do not kill them. Apollyon is their King, thus he is the 8th King of Rev. 17, but he is not a King on this earth, but he is a king, thus an 8th King.

The 2nd Woe is a 200 million Angelic Army slaying 1/3 of all mankind who have taken the Mark of the Beast, or probably about 1.5 billion people. These are PLAGUES from God, not men on ert killing other nen, it has ZERO to do with 200 million men on horses.

Revelation 10

This is merely a FLASH FORWARD unto the very end of the 70th-week events after the 7-Thunders have (Trumps) sounded, thus after these 7 Judgments, time as we know it is NO MORE.

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses ministry on this earth, nothing more, nothing less. In the first few verses, we see their parameters, it is to call the Jews to repentance. We see they live through the 2nd Woe and then die, but only so we can understand the TIMING of all these End Time Events (which most still can't comprehend, sadly) They show up 1335 days BEFORE the Second Coming and die 75 days before the 2nd Coming. They call Israel to repent, and 1/3 do repent.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,400
562
113
Yes, I have been a Preacher of End Time Eschatology for 35 years. I have an Exegesis on Daniel 11 that names every king, how they came to power, all the payers, and all the palace intrigue. I spent months on this like I said it's my calling, it's what I do daily.
Is it possible to spend 35 years studying scripture from the wrong paradigm? wrong foundation?

If you don't know this something is off-kilter. I don't play semantic games.
You're making statements without providing proof to support them. Testimony of two or more witnesses establishes truth, meanwhile, I just asked for one element of proof. "Is it common knowledge that servants of the Messiah die every decade?" Not necessarily because not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" does He know. There are folks who even go as far as to become preachers when they were never called to such, who then lead others further astray. So it's a valid request.

Wow, so you don't understand that there were never any LOST TRIBES? This is what I was speaking of earlier, men listening to men...
sigh, so many assumptions & errors in this portion; I cut it for space. Do you want to know the biggest sign that someone most likely doesn't know what they're talking about when it comes to eschatology or even scripture? It's their level of haughtiness they display. It never fails. It's the same spirit. No humility. The Almighty would never reward a person with understanding who displays a trait He absolutely abhors. It doesn't matter how long they've been studying.

Haughty - arrogantly superior and disdainful.


Proverbs 6:16-19 [brackets mine]
16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud [haughty] look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

I wrote a blog about how the Universe is 13.7 Billion years old, how the earth is 4.5 billion years old, about how the First Day lasts 9.2 billion years, and how the Sun and Moon crashing into each other SET THE SEASONS for the fourth day, thus God set the Season, He didn't create the Sun on the fourth day.
And there it is. Thank you. We're not even on the same playing field to have a discussion in eschatology.

I always answer all points, because I have all the answers I need because I rely on the Holy Spirit, I don't have to doge points.
Well...I asked you, do you believe there is an altar of incense in heaven from which fire is thrown down to the earth? You didn't respond. At least don't be hypocritical if you're gonna judge "for by the same measure your judge you will be judged".

To be honest, I don't think you will ever get it because you are off on so many different things.
lol ok. As you say. Blessings.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,400
562
113
I like your math! Jesus is mentioned hundreds of times so I am hoping there are hundreds of Jesus's because who would want that many?
lol, consider the scenes recorded of the glorified High Priest...He's always depicted with a voice like a rushing river. Now imagine whenever you've heard a crowd of people cheering, murmuring, chanting, or speaking in unison. It sounds exactly like a rushing river too.

The body of Messiah is His people, many members, all united with One Spirit speaking His Word in unison. Soon the Mystery of God will finally be completed. Halleluyah!
 

awelight

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
829
239
43
66
You are confused about the scriptures, I am not confused. I am not, that's a big difference, anyone who thinks the Seals have been opened I won't usually even converse with on Eschatology because it's a waste of time. If you can't get the simple things like that right you are lost on a bowl letters brother. Another hand trying to be a foot.
I think you need to slow down and read the posts more clearly are perhaps you responded to the wrong person. I have never discussed the seals of Revelation.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
2,209
604
113
And there it is. Thank you. We're not even on the same playing field to have a discussion in eschatology.
I'm looking for an "applause" icon to post here.