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Depleted

Guest
#81


It is interesting that I'm not an RSV fan yet I am of the ESV, I use both the ESV and the NJKV. I appreciate the way they are laid out, like the way they laid out I Corinthians 14:33 ESV
“For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged,32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets.33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.

As in all the churches of the saints,34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.”

NKJV “For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”

Opposed to the KJV 31
“For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”

The KJV lends itself to topical teaching/preaching and reading the Scriptures out of context, because it seem as if each verse stands alone, so you can go find another one that is like the one you like or help support your doctrine. Since they seem to stand alone it is easier to read them out of context, when they are laid out in paragraphs and chapters it is so much easier to read in context. For new believers it helps them understand that the Bible is written just like other
literature and should be read in the same way other works of literature are read. The majority of translation are in this format as they all should be, the Greek manuscripts were written in the same way, since there were no chapter and verse brakes. The Authorized (King James) Version has been written in this format which is great for those that like read the old english.


I wonder how many people would know that, "pisseth against the wall" means "male" I Samuel 25:22 KJV “So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.”

ESV “God do so to the enemies of David and more also, if by morning I leave so much as one male of all who belong to him.”

That is very inspired by the Lord, I wonder if it says, she that siteth by the wall. Please forgive me if anyone feels disrespects by that. I do not see any superior aspects of the KJV that would make it more inspired then any other translation from the Greek into any other language. As a matter of fact there are more translations that are closer to the Greek manuscripts then the KJV. First they were closer to the time that the original manuscripts was written, the languages were closer to the koiné Greek and they knew more about the koiné Greek then those in 1600.

The KJV is responsible for more false doctrines, legalism and cults then any other translation that was not translated by a cult.
I, for one, busted out laughing, when I figured out what pisseth against the wall meant.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#82
You are entitled to your opinion, and have expressed it in this post, but to present it as fact is not acceptable.
While I am not a KJVO, I totally disagree with what you said about the KJV being responsible for more false doctrine, legalism, and cults. You have no proof of that statement.
Actually, would you like to tally up this thread. Take note, there are only a few getting in a tither over which transaltion, and all of them are KJVOnlyist.

Not saying you are a KJVOnlyist. As I said already, I spent quite a bit of time in KJV too, and it didn't turn me into an onlyist either. But I do note they're the only ones who take it to a Bible version saves.

You're going to have to learn to deal with it, like I deal with Miley Cyrus and Madonna. Yes, we're all women, but I'm not like them. Yes, you like the KJV, but you're not like them. Doesn't mean the same thing as dismissing there are some in our group who are an embarrassment to the rest of our group.

Do the tally on this thread. Who is angry at which is the prim-and-proper version. The KJVOnlyist. Sorry about that. It doesn't mean you are one of them, but it really is something about that version.
 
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Depleted

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#83
What I have noticed on this forum is that most who lack proper understanding do not use the KJV.
What I have noticed on this forum is people who say others lack proper understanding, are often the people who don't have proper understanding.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#84
The KJV is responsible for more false doctrines, legalism and cults then any other translation that was not translated by a cult.
Do you realize how nonsensical this sounds since for over 300 years the King James Bible -- the Authorized Version -- was the ONLY BIBLE for English-speaking and English-reading people WORLDWIDE. Had you made this statement in the year 1800 you would have been laughed at as someone who has no clue. Christians should not be making such offensive and LUDICROUS statements about the Word of God.

In any event, this thread is not about the KJB but about one of the primary corrupt English translations which was so *wonderful* that it was eventually replaced (even though the Catholics loved it). Vain attempts were made to present these counterfeit bibles as "standard" Bibles, but they ALL FAILED. Today there are five competing versions all claiming to be standard. If that is not pathetic I wonder what is.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#85
Do you realize how nonsensical this sounds since for over 300 years the King James Bible -- the Authorized Version -- was the ONLY BIBLE for English-speaking and English-reading people WORLDWIDE. Had you made this statement in the year 1800 you would have been laughed at as someone who has no clue. Christians should not be making such offensive and LUDICROUS statements about the Word of God.

In any event, this thread is not about the KJB but about one of the primary corrupt English translations which was so *wonderful* that it was eventually replaced (even though the Catholics loved it). Vain attempts were made to present these counterfeit bibles as "standard" Bibles, but they ALL FAILED. Today there are five competing versions all claiming to be standard. If that is not pathetic I wonder what is.

Honestly!

How do you expect to be granted this blatant double standard? You want a free pass to lie about every modern translation. Then you cry offence when someone mentions the irrational mindset of KJV onlyists?? UNBELIEVABLE.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#86
More precisely, the RSV was a revision of the ASV which was a revision of the KJV. Strictly speaking it was a revision of a revision. I am well aware of the history of Westcott and Hort and there was nothing of corruption in their method of translation. What may have been unfortunate was the way in which they classified ancient manuscripts. It was a method that was widely used by scholars at the time and is still used today. However, these methods have been called into question since now, there are better methods for classifying biblical MSS. It is becoming apparent among researchers of textual groupings based on geographic areas that the old methods should be completely reexamined. To suggest that Westcott and Hort or any other group of researchers or scholars are some how involved in some type of translational conspiracy is absolutely absurd and irresponsible. I am completely fed up with this is the type of nonsense. These were honest men who may simply have been wrong in classifying MSS types.
Meh, sue me if I see you wanted nothing but RSV, but, hey, you started talking about other versions afterward, so, so am I.

And, in this case, I thought you'd enjoy the story of a translator for the NIV. Your kind of story, so I think you'll like it.

We met John in the 1990s, (also known as Age of Internet.) But he was a Bible scholar and missionary. His latest mission was for the homeless people in Philadelphia, but he had the mind of a scholar. He studied the Bible for 6+ hours a day, every day for 50 years by the time we met him. He was well sought after for his skills at translating dead languages. (Also the kind of teacher you want to sit under. Wow. He knew so much about what the Bible said and could translate that into every day life. James Boise paled in comparison, and Boise was my favorite writer for biblical knowledge. Not to disparage Boise, since Boise enjoyed sitting under John too.) And he was also the translator for The Letter of Jude (shortest book in the Bible lol) and some of the Psalms for the NIV.

NIV came out before Internet. He took two decades translating those portions of scripture, specifically because he had to hop a jet to which ever national location got to keep their oldest MS after getting permission by the nation's government to study the MS. When we were talking to him he was an old man. (Still consider him an old man, because he was in his late 80s. lol) He was musing how quick it would have been for him then to do the exact same thing then, (and, again, 1990s, so the days of AOL and Compuserve), because most governments have photocopied the MSS and scanned them for easy access on the Internet.

I don't remember John's last name. I didn't even meet him to talk about Bible translations. We had ministries for homeless in common. He actually bought a house somewhere in Philadelphia to bring in men off the street to teach them about the Lord and about how to function in society again. At the time, I was writing resumes for blue-collar people and just-graduated-from-college people, who needed help getting their foot in the door. I was making money doing that, but I wanted to do it for free for the homeless men.

Unfortunately, right about then gallstone colic changed my life, and by the time my gallbladder was removed, I became disabled and couldn't work anymore.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#87
I do not own a full copy of the RSV and I have never read it completely through. However, I have Greek UBS 4th edition interlinear, which I consult from time to time, which has the RSV as a parallel version. I often compare it to the Greek, and I like it better than the English translations below the Greek. It is close to word for word, but does modernize the Greek, from time to time, by adding a phrase to a word, or just clarifying a bit.

I also believe that the KJV is responsible for more heresies than any other version. Yes, more people read it in the past, but it is extremely difficult to understand the archaic and obsolete language, and especially when it tries to follow Greek word order when it is not possible to express something that way in English, especially noun cases.

May I ask why you are interesting in opinions about the KJV?

PS For those newbies who have not heard this before, I have read the Bible completely over 50 times, including NASB, ESV, HCSB, NLT, and I have read the entire Bible in French, the NT in Greek, and some books of the OT in Hebrew. I’m just reading the Bible in German, which is so similar to Greek in grammer. German is a pleasure to read the Bible in. Rest assured, I understand the Bible and theology, without ever having read the KJV. It is the height of presumption to say that only KJV Onlyers understand the Bible! And certainly there are literally millions of others who do not use the KJV only who know the Bible better than the KJV Onlyers! I have friends on the mission field, some in countries that are totally closed to the gospel. They know the Bible so well, they use other English language versions for their own devotions. Great men and women of God, who have studied to show themselves approved, are in God’s will and do not use the KJV.

Sorry, OH for the digression!
Back up a bit here. Nosy woman needs to ask nosy question.

RSV is better than the English version underneath the Greek version? Which version is the English version? You got Greek, you got RSV, you got English, and you got a fourth one. I'm never going to be able to read the Greek version. BUT, you said RSV was better than English version, so now I have to know which English version? ESV? (Just checking how good my current version is, or if there is an even better version I can grab off eSword to include in the four versions I already have. lol)
 
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Depleted

Guest
#88
I do not care if they were atheists. The only thing that concerns me is the end result.
You really stink at letting go of people who want to talk about anything else other than you're original OP in a thread, even after you tell them you're not going to talk to them anymore about anything else.

(Just thought I'd let you know this about yourself since I'm the same way. lol)
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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#89
You really stink at letting go of people who want to talk about anything else other than you're original OP in a thread, even after you tell them you're not going to talk to them anymore about anything else.

(Just thought I'd let you know this about yourself since I'm the same way. lol)
LOL. Yea, I suppose your right.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#90
KJV!
NIV!
RSV!
KJV!
NIV!
.................

club-me-3.gif

2050500538.jpg
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
#91
A. Versions, not translations. (I do NOT like translations. All they did was take a version and translated it to more modern language. I much prefer the scholars who research earliest MSS and translate from them. The difference is one is making a copy of a copy of a copy, and the other is making a copy of a copy.)

B. How in the world have you managed to stay with just one Bible in 55 years? The only way I've kept it down to a mere 4 Bibles in 46 years is because I eSword now. Less need to keep turning the pages. lol
Should have said the same translation, KJV, for 55 years. Actually, I am now on my 11th Bible. Have worn out 10 already.:cool:
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
#92
Actually, would you like to tally up this thread. Take note, there are only a few getting in a tither over which transaltion, and all of them are KJVOnlyist.

Not saying you are a KJVOnlyist. As I said already, I spent quite a bit of time in KJV too, and it didn't turn me into an onlyist either. But I do note they're the only ones who take it to a Bible version saves.

You're going to have to learn to deal with it, like I deal with Miley Cyrus and Madonna. Yes, we're all women, but I'm not like them. Yes, you like the KJV, but you're not like them. Doesn't mean the same thing as dismissing there are some in our group who are an embarrassment to the rest of our group.

Do the tally on this thread. Who is angry at which is the prim-and-proper version. The KJVOnlyist. Sorry about that. It doesn't mean you are one of them, but it really is something about that version.
I thought about responding to all your post directed at me, but since this is a RSV thread, I will not so as not to anger anyone.:eek:
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#93
I am curious, Do you find the German translations more accurate than those in English?

I’m only in the book of John, which I picked because I know it is easy in Greek. And I do not have a side by side comparison to the Greek, which would be nice. But, word for word order most often is retained, because it makes sense in German, which it does not in English. So, you can throw the nominative to the end of the sentence in German, to unemphasize it, and put whatever the Greek has at the beginning and it makes grammatical sense. I really like that!

And subordinate clause after subordinate clause in Greek, which has to be broken up in English, does not have to be broken up in German. I am reading the Luther Bible, updated, and the words seem very accurate. The catch being, sometimes I have to look up the German words, or I learn new ones as I read it. I am checking the German against the Greek in our Sunday morning passages, and learning lots of new words, but also seeing how much better the translation fits the grammar in English, or better than French, for that matter, which I am also comparing. German is totally derived from Greek grammar, although, surprisingly, I don’t see as much connection in the actual words, as say between English-French, or English-German, from which English is derived. I have actually learned a lot about Greek grammar from learning German, and even English grammar, which I thought I knew really well. This professor is very intense about grammar, which works for me. (Plus she makes us write and write, and talk and talk!)

One issue I do have, especially with John, and I suspect other books, is that I know John really well in English. So sometimes, I am comparing English to German in my head, without even looking up the English. I am really going to do some studying of the German vs Greek, now that you have brought it up. I’ll let you know if I find anything interesting.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#94
KJV only = KJV translators as final authority.

What part of "leave the KJV-only arguments out of this thread" did you not understand?
their pride is too deep.

And yes your right, their final authority is the transdlators. Since they are the people who gave them the bible they worship;
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,142
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#95
I’m only in the book of John, which I picked because I know it is easy in Greek. And I do not have a side by side comparison to the Greek, which would be nice. But, word for word order most often is retained, because it makes sense in German, which it does not in English. So, you can throw the nominative to the end of the sentence in German, to unemphasize it, and put whatever the Greek has at the beginning and it makes grammatical sense. I really like that!

And subordinate clause after subordinate clause in Greek, which has to be broken up in English, does not have to be broken up in German. I am reading the Luther Bible, updated, and the words seem very accurate. The catch being, sometimes I have to look up the German words, or I learn new ones as I read it. I am checking the German against the Greek in our Sunday morning passages, and learning lots of new words, but also seeing how much better the translation fits the grammar in English, or better than French, for that matter, which I am also comparing. German is totally derived from Greek grammar, although, surprisingly, I don’t see as much connection in the actual words, as say between English-French, or English-German, from which English is derived. I have actually learned a lot about Greek grammar from learning German, and even English grammar, which I thought I knew really well. This professor is very intense about grammar, which works for me. (Plus she makes us write and write, and talk and talk!)

One issue I do have, especially with John, and I suspect other books, is that I know John really well in English. So sometimes, I am comparing English to German in my head, without even looking up the English. I am really going to do some studying of the German vs Greek, now that you have brought it up. I’ll let you know if I find anything interesting.
I really envy your skill with multiple languages. Personally, I only know two languages, English and bad English. I have always been curious about the German translation since the languages are so comparable. It always struck me that the German translations would probably be more accurate than anything we have in English.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#96
their pride is too deep.

And yes your right, their final authority is the transdlators. Since they are the people who gave them the bible they worship;
And your 100% certain that God didn't inspire any bible?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#97
I really envy your skill with multiple languages. Personally, I only know two languages, English and bad English. I have always been curious about the German translation since the languages are so comparable. It always struck me that the German translations would probably be more accurate than anything we have in English.
English as we speak it is one of the poorest languages, I remember taking spanish in high school. And it was so more precise and easier than english. There is a reason God did not write the origional text in english. And I thgank him for that so much. Talk about confusion?
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
#98
And your 100% certain that God didn't inspire any bible?
I am 100% sure God inspired those who wrote the original manuscripts and 100% sure he did not inspire any translation.
Ancient or modern.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#99
I am 100% sure God inspired those who wrote the original manuscripts and 100% sure he did not inspire any translation.
Ancient or modern.
Wow you must be one smart fellar.
 
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SpoonJuly

Guest
As I have stated before, I am not a KJVO. The KJV is the only translation I have ever used. I am very comfortable with it.
I know it has its flaws just like every other translation. I do use Greek and Hebrew dictionaries in my studies.

If the original manuscripts were available to us today, they would be useful to only a few. Most of us have never had the opportunity nor the intellect to study and learn Greek or Hebrew.

We must rely on translations.

While I find it wrong to champion the KJV as the only TRUE Bible and condemn all other translations as corrupt, I find it also just as wrong to condemn the KJV.

Regardless of the translation one uses, proper study and prayer will lead to proper understanding.
What ever works for you and your understanding, by all means use that translation.