Rightly divided

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Thank you, I have been studying in the OT much more as of late, I am getting a better understanding of it with help and prayer
Galatians 3:15-29 is quite good at explaining why it has always been by faith and how the law never superseded the promises of God.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Galatians 3:15-29 is quite good at explaining why it has always been by faith and how the law never superseded the promises of God.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came (Before faith came? Whose faith? The faith of Jesus Christ), we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come(the faith of Jesus Christ), we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Before Christ, man had faith. It was his own personal faith. Until God's righteousness had come which is through the faith of Jesus Christ, man was justified through their own individual faith which including works. Man's justification could never take away sin nor lead one to heaven. They were kept from eternal condemnation until led free by Christ.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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Galatians 3:15-29 is quite good at explaining why it has always been by faith and how the law never superseded the promises of God.
I was able to make that out, thank you for the scripture...... I was having trouble seeing it this way when studying the OT because I was seeing it through the perspective of those it was hidden from, and the scripture pertaining to it.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came (Before faith came? Whose faith? The faith of Jesus Christ), we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come(the faith of Jesus Christ), we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Before Christ, man had faith. It was his own personal faith. Until God's righteousness had come which is through the faith of Jesus Christ, man was justified through their own individual faith which including works. Man's justification could never take away sin nor lead one to heaven. They were kept from eternal condemnation until led free by Christ.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Amen!! Thank you for the scripture
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,928
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Before Christ, man had faith. It was his own personal faith. Until God's righteousness had come which is through the faith of Jesus Christ, man was justified through their own individual faith which including works. Man's justification could never take away sin nor lead one to heaven. They were kept from eternal condemnation until led free by Christ.
Man had faith, true, but it was not His own personal faith. Faith is created through a promise from God, thus Abraham believed and was justified and it was not of works. Romans 4

For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
(Rom 4:2-5)

You might also read Hebrews 11 giving a list of some of the heroes of faith before Jesus came.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
437
157
43
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came (Before faith came? Whose faith? The faith of Jesus Christ), we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come(the faith of Jesus Christ), we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Before Christ, man had faith. It was his own personal faith. Until God's righteousness had come which is through the faith of Jesus Christ, man was justified through their own individual faith which including works. Man's justification could never take away sin nor lead one to heaven. They were kept from eternal condemnation until led free by Christ.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

Thank you John!
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,928
3,348
113
I was able to make that out, thank you for the scripture...... I was having trouble seeing it this way when studying the OT because I was seeing it through the perspective of those it was hidden from, and the scripture pertaining to it.
That's right...

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. (2 Corinthians 3:14-16 KJV)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,710
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Man had faith, true, but it was not His own personal faith. Faith is created through a promise from God, thus Abraham believed and was justified and it was not of works. Romans 4

For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
(Rom 4:2-5)

You might also read Hebrews 11 giving a list of some of the heroes of faith before Jesus came.
Hebrews 11 is all about the individual faith those OT saints had. It was demonstrated through their works of obedience.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Paul says the just shall live by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Abraham is a type. He is not identical to what we have today.

James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works(Yes, he was), when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness (Abraham was called righteous back in Genesis 15, but he was not justified until chapter 22 when he offered up Isaac): and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,928
3,348
113
Hebrews 11 is all about the individual faith those OT saints had. It was demonstrated through their works of obedience.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Paul says the just shall live by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Abraham is a type. He is not identical to what we have today.

James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works(Yes, he was), when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness (Abraham was called righteous back in Genesis 15, but he was not justified until chapter 22 when he offered up Isaac): and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Thanks for your opinion. I definitely don't agree.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,710
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Thanks for your opinion. I definitely don't agree.
You would say those OT saints had the faith of Christ? I’ve shown the Scripture where that is not the case.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
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Hebrews 11 is all about the individual faith those OT saints had. It was demonstrated through their works of obedience.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Paul says the just shall live by the faith of Jesus Christ.

Abraham is a type. He is not identical to what we have today.

James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works(Yes, he was), when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness (Abraham was called righteous back in Genesis 15, but he was not justified until chapter 22 when he offered up Isaac): and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

You don't seem to know the difference in regard to being justified before men as opposed to being justified before God. :(
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
29,928
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113
You would say those OT saints had the faith of Christ? I’ve shown the Scripture where that is not the case.
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. (John 8:56 KJV)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,710
2,565
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You don't seem to know the difference in regard to being justified before men as opposed to being justified before God. :(
When is the believer ever asked to be justified before men? Justification is only before God.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
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Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad. (John 8:56 KJV)
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off..." (Hebrews 11:13)

Those promises included the promised Messiah - Jesus.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,710
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Read about Paul justifying himself by his works before the Corinthians.
Passage please? What does justification before men even mean? Why would the believer care to be justified before men?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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God is the just and justifier.