Rom 6:17 "But thanks be to God that you who were slaves of sin have now become OBEDIENT from the heart..."

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,083
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113
#1
Do not be deceived. Obedience is a necessary element to true saving faith.

1 Pet 1:14,15
As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do,

2 Cor 2:9
My purpose in writing you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything.

1 Pet 1:22
Having purified your souls in obedience to the truth unto sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently, out of a pure heart,

Rom 16:26
but now revealed and made known through the writings of the prophets by the command of the eternal God, in order to lead all nations to the obedience that comes from faith—

Acts 6:7
So the word of God continued to spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem grew rapidly, and a great number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Pil 2:12
Therefore my beloved, just as always you have obeyed, not only as in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2 Thes 1:8
in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

1 Pet 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?

Acts 5:32
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
4,739
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#2
Do not be deceived. Obedience is a necessary element to true saving faith.

1 Pet 1:14,15
As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do,

2 Cor 2:9
My purpose in writing you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything.

1 Pet 1:22
Having purified your souls in obedience to the truth unto sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently, out of a pure heart,

Rom 16:26
but now revealed and made known through the writings of the prophets by the command of the eternal God, in order to lead all nations to the obedience that comes from faith—

Acts 6:7
So the word of God continued to spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem grew rapidly, and a great number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Pil 2:12
Therefore my beloved, just as always you have obeyed, not only as in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2 Thes 1:8
in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

1 Pet 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?

Acts 5:32
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
100% - Keep preaching it!
 

BrokenSparrow

Senior Member
Sep 12, 2016
437
144
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#3
Romans 10
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Yes, obedience is very important to salvation. Roman 10:16 tells us how to truly obey the gospel, and that is by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. If we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ we love God with all our heart, mind, and soul and put him first, and walk in the Spirit with him and we are obedient to him and his commandments. True obedience can only be accomplished through faith in Jesus Christ and his finished work. By faith we are obedient and made overcomers through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 John 5

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
3,017
1,856
113
#4
Do not be deceived. Obedience is a necessary element to true saving faith.

1 Pet 1:14,15
As obedient children, do not conform to the passions of your former ignorance. But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do,

2 Cor 2:9
My purpose in writing you was to see if you would stand the test and be obedient in everything.

1 Pet 1:22
Having purified your souls in obedience to the truth unto sincere brotherly love, love one another fervently, out of a pure heart,

Rom 16:26
but now revealed and made known through the writings of the prophets by the command of the eternal God, in order to lead all nations to the obedience that comes from faith—

Acts 6:7
So the word of God continued to spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem grew rapidly, and a great number of priests became obedient to the faith.

Pil 2:12
Therefore my beloved, just as always you have obeyed, not only as in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2 Thes 1:8
in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

1 Pet 4:17
For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?

Acts 5:32
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
It is possible to be born again and not obey God. Ask Jonah how that ends up, King David also. Most Christians will have a conflict with God's will at sometime in their walk, often several times. Some will turn away and live for themselves. They do not stop being born again, but they lose the joy and peace that accompanies salvation. They grieve the Spirit and so the fruit of the Spirit is absent. I've been in that situation. It is awful and God intends it to be so. He wants us to return to Him because we are His, bought with the precious blood of Christ.

If obedience was necessary to saving faith, Paul would not have needed to write about it. Yes, Christians should obey. Anyone who imagines that they obey God perfectly all the time is self-deceived. If perfect obedience is the condition for saving faith then no one will make it. It is of God that I am in Christ Jesus. It is Christ who saves. Salvation is God's work, not mine! I depend entirely on the finished work of Christ through His death and resurrection.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
43,476
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#5
Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth,
and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe
in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Romans 10:17 + Galatians 3:5 :)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,083
5,242
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#6
It is possible to be born again and not obey God. Ask Jonah how that ends up, King David also. Most Christians will have a conflict with God's will at sometime in their walk, often several times. Some will turn away and live for themselves. They do not stop being born again, but they lose the joy and peace that accompanies salvation. They grieve the Spirit and so the fruit of the Spirit is absent. I've been in that situation. It is awful and God intends it to be so. He wants us to return to Him because we are His, bought with the precious blood of Christ.

If obedience was necessary to saving faith, Paul would not have needed to write about it. Yes, Christians should obey. Anyone who imagines that they obey God perfectly all the time is self-deceived. If perfect obedience is the condition for saving faith then no one will make it. It is of God that I am in Christ Jesus. It is Christ who saves. Salvation is God's work, not mine! I depend entirely on the finished work of Christ through His death and resurrection.
It's not rules its relationship......God knows who are his. Keeping score is not the idea.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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#8
Do not be deceived. Obedience is a necessary element to true saving faith.
But isn't faith a gift/fruit to us from the Holy Spirit? And to receive the Holy Spirit, doesn't one first have to become born again;
and to become born again doesn't one first become saved? How does one come to possess the attribute of obedience
before receiving a renewed mind? Aren't they all gifts from God to us?

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Eph 5:9-10 KJV] 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
[Eph 4:22-24 KJV] 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,083
5,242
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#9
But isn't faith a gift/fruit to us from the Holy Spirit? And to receive the Holy Spirit, doesn't one first have to become born again;
and to become born again doesn't one first become saved? How does one come to possess the attribute of obedience
before receiving a renewed mind? Aren't they all gifts from God to us?

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[Eph 5:9-10 KJV] 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
[Eph 4:22-24 KJV] 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
OK let me rephrase: Obedience is an inevitable RESULT of true saving faith......:geek:
That which is a natural response which inevitably occurs concomitant with love after the new birth.

As Scripture so often declares....faith is a two-way street.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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#10
OK let me rephrase: Obedience is an inevitable RESULT of true saving faith......:geek:
That which is a natural response which inevitably occurs concomitant with love after the new birth.

As Scripture so often declares....faith is a two-way street.
Thanks for rephrasing - I would completely agree.

By "two-way street" I assume you mean that faith is from God to us as a gift, and from/by that gift, is our faith in Christ.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,083
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#11
Thanks for rephrasing - I would completely agree.

By "two-way street" I assume you mean that faith is from God to us as a gift, and from/by that gift, is our faith in Christ.
By two way street I mean that we are intimately and willfully involved (by God decree and design) in the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. There is indeed such a thing as greater obedience and faith that results in sanctification.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
1,018
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#12
By two way street I mean that we are intimately and willfully involved (by God decree and design) in the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. There is indeed such a thing as greater obedience and faith that results in sanctification.
Hmmm, I can be kind of slow and dense sometimes, so I'm not entirely sure that I comprehend your point. On the surface, you seems to imply doctrines of which I am unfamiliar, or at least haven't heard phrased quite that way before. I've always believed that faith is entirely a gift to us, which, by definition, we are unable to give to ourselves, otherwise we would already have to have it to get it, which seems a logical impossibility. Might you mean growing in the knowledge of our Lord?
To me, this verses sums it up:

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,919
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#13
True faith from our Father is indeed a gift which gives the receiver who truly loves great desire to obey the Father, and not to be ungrateful.

Being grateful for a gift will influence the receive to do the will of the Father when the Father requires it. The one with faith, true faith, will know when and what are the works fo the Father from Him.

Faith without works is no faith at all, dead.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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#14
True faith from our Father is indeed a gift which gives the receiver who truly loves great desire to obey the Father, and not to be ungrateful.

Being grateful for a gift will influence the receive to do the will of the Father when the Father requires it. The one with faith, true faith, will know when and what are the works fo the Father from Him.

Faith without works is no faith at all, dead.
I think I would tend to agree with your post. However, I would also add this for your consideration:

[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#15
I've always believed that faith is entirely a gift to us, which, by definition, we are unable to give to ourselves, otherwise we would already have to have it to get it, which seems a logical impossibility.
It sounds like your Bibles and my Bibles have the same verses. I don't know how [anyone] can claim that Salvation has anything to do with ourselves . . . well, not if a person has read and determined to understand the Old Testament. My guess is, though, that most people who argue with you have never read nor understood the Old Testament. My 54 years in the "christian church" has proven this fact, which is that most "said christians" haven't a clue as to what's in the Heart of the Old Testament.

Below is the most critical Promise ever applied to Humanity, and this Promise was instituted in the Holy Lives of Abraham and Sarah, our Mother and Father of Faith.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."

Why do you think that most "christians" of today pay no regard to the plethora of these kinds of verses throughout the Bible? Because if they did (acknowledge them), they'd have to explain away why their life of sin is far, far, far, far worse than it was the day they were baptized. Based upon the Ezekiel passages above, we have no option but to improve in our Lives as we become more and more like Christ. That's what a True Christian is . . . someone who has BEEN MADE to be Transformed into the image of Christ (more and more).
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
1,018
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#16
Below is the most critical Promise ever applied to Humanity, and this Promise was instituted in the Holy Lives of Abraham and Sarah, our Mother and Father of Faith.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NLT - "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. Your filth will be washed away, and you will no longer worship idols. And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart. And I will put my Spirit in you so that you will follow my decrees and be careful to obey my regulations."
Yes, I agree. God states that again in the New Testament:

[Heb 10:16-17 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


God's laws?
[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#17
Yes, I agree. God states that again in the New Testament:

[Heb 10:16-17 KJV]
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


God's laws?
[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Nice. And since you're quoting from Hebrews, let's not forget about the following incredible, unbelievable Scripture! :)

Hebrews 8:6-13 NLT - "But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises. If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it. But when God found fault with the people, he said: "The day is coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt. They did not remain faithful to my covenant, so I turned my back on them, says the LORD. But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already. And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins." When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear."
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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#18
Hebrews 8:6-13 NLT - "But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises. If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it. But when God found fault with the people, he said: "The day is coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt. They did not remain faithful to my covenant, so I turned my back on them, says the LORD. But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already. And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins." When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear."
Magnificent, isn't it? In Hebrews 8:11 we are unquestionably told that God by Himself will make a new covenant, and through it will write it into their hearts-- He will be their God and they His people. Of course, the people in view are those who were elected of God to eternal life.
In Romans 8:2, I we are told "the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ" itself is that which frees from the law of sin and death, and not by anything that anyone can do to acquire or earn it - it is fully a gift.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#19
Magnificent, isn't it? In Hebrews 8:11 we are unquestionably told that God by Himself will make a new covenant, and through it will write it into their hearts-- He will be their God and they His people. Of course, the people in view are those who were elected of God to eternal life.
In Romans 8:2, I we are told "the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ" itself is that which frees from the law of sin and death, and not by anything that anyone can do to acquire or earn it - it is fully a gift.
Beautiful, Roger! It's good to see that I have a True Brother in Christ.