Rom 6:17 "But thanks be to God that you who were slaves of sin have now become OBEDIENT from the heart..."

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
3,017
1,856
113
#21
It's not rules its relationship......God knows who are his. Keeping score is not the idea.
Yes. It is also about being a servant. Servants obey, as Lord Jesus did. We go through stages as believers. We start with a rebellious will. We are born with it and that does not change instantly. As we grow, we develop a submissive will. We may grit our teeth but we do as God requires. Ultimately, we will have a harmonised will. We will say with Lord Jesus, "I delight to do your will. It is not grievous!"

I was born again 50 years ago. I was like a feral animal when I was born again. I was afraid of God's will, what it may involve and what it would do to me. 50 years later, I fear not having God's will. I began to realise how much better God's will is for me.

God seeks our cooperation. He will not work on this earth apart from His people. He will have His plan and purpose fulfilled, but it will not be apart from those who are totally committed to the Kingdom of God. The good news is that we have the Lord Jesus living within to be our willingness.

If we entrust ourselves to Him, He will bring us to a place where we can be effective servant/sons. It's the most noble and glorious life, even though we may feel like we are the least of the least at times. God values things vastly differently from men. The person who cleans out the toilets may be more highly esteemed than the pastor in God's eyes. We all have a place in the Body. As long as we are working as a member of the Body, God is satisfied.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,083
5,242
113
#22
It is possible to be born again and not obey God. Ask Jonah how that ends up, King David also. Most Christians will have a conflict with God's will at sometime in their walk, often several times. Some will turn away and live for themselves. They do not stop being born again, but they lose the joy and peace that accompanies salvation. They grieve the Spirit and so the fruit of the Spirit is absent. I've been in that situation. It is awful and God intends it to be so. He wants us to return to Him because we are His, bought with the precious blood of Christ.

If obedience was necessary to saving faith, Paul would not have needed to write about it. Yes, Christians should obey. Anyone who imagines that they obey God perfectly all the time is self-deceived. If perfect obedience is the condition for saving faith then no one will make it. It is of God that I am in Christ Jesus. It is Christ who saves. Salvation is God's work, not mine! I depend entirely on the finished work of Christ through His death and resurrection.
Heb 5:9 - And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.

The thing is.....when you see brazen belligerent rebellious DISobedience. FROM THE HEART. CONTINUING. Well then.....that should set the alarm bells ringing.

https://biblescan.com/searchnt.php?q=disobedient
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
1,018
173
63
#23
Faith without works is no faith at all, dead.
Should have included yesterday that the works in view in those verses (Jas 2:20 &26) are Christ's works, not ours. He alone provided both faith AND works on our behalf. Should we claim that (our) faith is from/by our doing/choice and not a gift from God, then we would also have to have the same works that Christ put forth because faith IS a work. Christ alone is the Savior and we are not.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,917
5,575
113
#24
Should have included yesterday that the works in view in those verses (Jas 2:20 &26) are Christ's works, not ours. He alone provided both faith AND works on our behalf. Should we claim that (our) faith is from/by our doing/choice and not a gift from God, then we would also have to have the same works that Christ put forth because faith IS a work. Christ alone is the Savior and we are not.
YOu have not read my past posts on just this subject. Our works are given us by the Father. As I have reiterated many times before. We cannot do our Father any favors for not even our obedience is such rather it is our due.

Now those works are many, and many are not perceivable by other brethren, only by dthe Father. Perhaps you will come to me with somekind of commentary, but let me warn, even waiting on the Lord is works. Take it from there if yo wish, but please do not say what I believe. I believe God.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
4,739
1,686
113
#25
YOu have not read my past posts on just this subject. Our works are given us by the Father. As I have reiterated many times before. We cannot do our Father any favors for not even our obedience is such rather it is our due.

Now those works are many, and many are not perceivable by other brethren, only by dthe Father. Perhaps you will come to me with somekind of commentary, but let me warn, even waiting on the Lord is works. Take it from there if yo wish, but please do not say what I believe. I believe God.
It looks, to me, like roger and you are in agreement.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
10,083
5,242
113
#27
Yes. It is also about being a servant. Servants obey, as Lord Jesus did. We go through stages as believers. We start with a rebellious will. We are born with it and that does not change instantly. As we grow, we develop a submissive will. We may grit our teeth but we do as God requires. Ultimately, we will have a harmonised will. We will say with Lord Jesus, "I delight to do your will. It is not grievous!"

I was born again 50 years ago. I was like a feral animal when I was born again. I was afraid of God's will, what it may involve and what it would do to me. 50 years later, I fear not having God's will. I began to realise how much better God's will is for me.

God seeks our cooperation. He will not work on this earth apart from His people. He will have His plan and purpose fulfilled, but it will not be apart from those who are totally committed to the Kingdom of God. The good news is that we have the Lord Jesus living within to be our willingness.

If we entrust ourselves to Him, He will bring us to a place where we can be effective servant/sons. It's the most noble and glorious life, even though we may feel like we are the least of the least at times. God values things vastly differently from men. The person who cleans out the toilets may be more highly esteemed than the pastor in God's eyes. We all have a place in the Body. As long as we are working as a member of the Body, God is satisfied.
Well spoken brother and thanks for posting...
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
1,018
173
63
#28
This is exactly what I am saying.
it wasn't my intention to question your beliefs or anything that you posted. I was just trying to take the opportunity to amplify that Christ alone is the Savior - I probably didn't pick the best way to do it -- sorry that I wasn't more clear- no offense intended.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,069
2,277
113
#29
Nice. And since you're quoting from Hebrews, let's not forget about the following incredible, unbelievable Scripture! :)

Hebrews 8:6-13 NLT - "But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises. If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it. But when God found fault with the people, he said: "The day is coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt. They did not remain faithful to my covenant, so I turned my back on them, says the LORD. But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the LORD: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already. And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins." When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear."
What so many do not understand is that the old covenant that was inadequate was created by our holy god, and what is of God is eternal. God spoke no lies in the old covenant. There is no lie in the ten commandments, there is no lie in that there are rewards for obedience. salvation has always required blood and faith, and not obedience. The rewards offered for obedience in the old covenant never once said obedience resulted in salvation. God does not lie.

It is better to know of the spiritual meaning of what God gives us, not learn of them through fleshly commandments. Under the old covenant we cut skin to be circumcised, under the new covenant we are circumcised in our heart. The old way is obsolete, the new covenant is better. But there are no lies told in the old covenant that God has to apologize for.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
19,917
5,575
113
#30
Blessed are the peace makers for they shall see God, amn.. You know who you are..
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
4,739
1,686
113
#31
What so many do not understand is that the old covenant that was inadequate was created by our holy god, and what is of God is eternal. God spoke no lies in the old covenant. There is no lie in the ten commandments, there is no lie in that there are rewards for obedience. salvation has always required blood and faith, and not obedience. The rewards offered for obedience in the old covenant never once said obedience resulted in salvation. God does not lie.

It is better to know of the spiritual meaning of what God gives us, not learn of them through fleshly commandments. Under the old covenant we cut skin to be circumcised, under the new covenant we are circumcised in our heart. The old way is obsolete, the new covenant is better. But there are no lies told in the old covenant that God has to apologize for.
I haven't a clue as to why you've referenced lying five times. Makes no sense.

Regarding covenants . . . the "Old Covenant" is a reflection of what happened to the Heart of Abraham, and that "Old Covenant" rests between the Covenant the Lord made with Abraham and his wife, Sarah and the "New Covenant" that we have today. The Covenant made with Abraham has never changed, and that Covenant made with Abraham is fulfilled in Christ, made available to the "whole world." The "New Covenant" existed before the "Old Covenant." Do you understand? The "New Covenant" of a Circumcised Heart has been in practice since the beginning, hence Abel was the first True Prophet. But that "New Covenant" was instituted in the Holy Lives of Abraham and Sarah.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,069
2,277
113
#32
I haven't a clue as to why you've referenced lying five times. Makes no sense.

Regarding covenants . . . the "Old Covenant" is a reflection of what happened to the Heart of Abraham, and that "Old Covenant" rests between the Covenant the Lord made with Abraham and his wife, Sarah and the "New Covenant" that we have today. The Covenant made with Abraham has never changed, and that Covenant made with Abraham is fulfilled in Christ, made available to the "whole world." The "New Covenant" existed before the "Old Covenant." Do you understand? The "New Covenant" of a Circumcised Heart has been in practice since the beginning, hence Abel was the first True Prophet. But that "New Covenant" was instituted in the Holy Lives of Abraham and Sarah.
You are reading scripture as a historical document, I am reading scripture to tell me about God.

I believe that God was speaking to all humanity, giving His ways when God created the Hebrews when the world would not listen to Him, the race he created did listen. When God spoke to Abraham and Sarah, God did not tell the nations not to listen because it wasn't meant for them. God was giving eternal principles to them and often told them He meant it for all people who would listen.

The old covenant was from God spoken in literal language they could understand. The new covenant tells the same story, spoken to hearts now that hearts were opened to God through Christ and the holy spirit.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
4,739
1,686
113
#33
You are reading scripture as a historical document, I am reading scripture to tell me about God.
Let's just agree to not discuss things from here on out. Sound good?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
43,476
18,073
113
#34
What so many do not understand is that the old covenant that was inadequate was created by our holy god, and what is of God is eternal.
The old covenant is passing away and becoming obsolete. Scripture says so!

By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one
obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
4,739
1,686
113
#37
You are reading scripture as a historical document, I am reading scripture to tell me about God.

I believe that God was speaking to all humanity, giving His ways when God created the Hebrews when the world would not listen to Him, the race he created did listen. When God spoke to Abraham and Sarah, God did not tell the nations not to listen because it wasn't meant for them. God was giving eternal principles to them and often told them He meant it for all people who would listen.

The old covenant was from God spoken in literal language they could understand. The new covenant tells the same story, spoken to hearts now that hearts were opened to God through Christ and the holy spirit.
Since you don't even have the wherewithal to respond, you have been blocked. I wish you well, but I am not interested in your goading and harassment.