Romans 10 REFUTES:TULIP, works salvation, and baptism for salvation

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,411
3,099
113
#1
Christians see many false doctrines being promoted on Christian forums, particularly TULIP (Five Point Calvinism), works salvation, and baptismal regeneration (water baptism being necessary for salvation), All these false doctrines are REFUTED by Romans 10.

AN ELECT NATION IS NOT ELECTED FOR SALVATION (IMAGINE!)
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.


WORKS SALVATION: THE BANE OF ISRAEL
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK OF REDEMPTION MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE
4 For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

PERFECT OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW IS NECESSARY BUT IMPOSSIBLE
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the Law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS IS GOD'S PLAN OF REDEMPTION
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead)

THE WORD OF FAITH IS NEAR EVERYONE WHO HEARS THE GOSPEL
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the Word of faith, which we preach;

"BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED"
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

GOD WANTS TO SEE GENUINE FAITH AND PUBLIC PROFESSION OF THAT FAITH
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

SALVATION IS OFFERED TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE (WHOSOEVER)
11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.

GOD’S GRACE IS UNLIMITED, AND SO IS CHRIST’S ATONEMENT
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.

BAPTISM IS NOT A CONDITION FOR SALVATION
13 For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.

THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL IS A DIVINE NECESSITY
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

PREACHERS OF THE GOSPEL ARE CALLED AND SENT OUT BY GOD
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the Gospel of Peace, and bring Glad Tidings of good things!

NOT ALL WILL OBEY THE GOSPEL, THUS NOT ALL WILL BE SAVED
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

SAVING FAITH IS GENERATED THROUGH HEARING THE GOSPEL
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

THE GOSPEL HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE WORLD
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

ISRAEL SHOULD HAVE OBEYED THE GOSPEL BUT FAILED TO DO SO
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

GENTILES RESPONDED TO THE GOSPEL SOONER THAN JEWS
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

THE JEWS WHO RESISTED THE GOSPEL AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WERE DAMNED
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
206
82
28
#2
There are verses saying repent to be saved, believe and be baptized, repent and be baptized, eat Jesus' blood and flesh to be saved, believe to be saved, confess to be saved. Well which one is it then? Why does it say all that, what about John 3:16 and the Romans verses quoted above?

Is it true that you are saved by calling on the name of the Lord? Yes. But what about those other verses that mention more than just confession and belief?
What we see in our daily Christian walk is, after belief, confession, repentance usually comes water baptism and partaking of the Lord's supper. That is why I believe those other verses are there, but if anyone has another explanation I am all ears
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,072
3,004
113
#3
If we do not work we do not eat, and I love the Bread from Heaven...…...
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
2,287
444
83
#4
There are verses saying repent to be saved, believe and be baptized, repent and be baptized, eat Jesus' blood and flesh to be saved, believe to be saved, confess to be saved. Well which one is it then? Why does it say all that, what about John 3:16 and the Romans verses quoted above?

Is it true that you are saved by calling on the name of the Lord? Yes. But what about those other verses that mention more than just confession and belief?
What we see in our daily Christian walk is, after belief, confession, repentance usually comes water baptism and partaking of the Lord's supper. That is why I believe those other verses are there, but if anyone has another explanation I am all ears
Some are instructions for the Jews during a different time period.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,411
3,099
113
#5
What we see in our daily Christian walk is, after belief, confession, repentance usually comes water baptism and partaking of the Lord's supper.
That is correct. Water baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances for the Church, and come after salvation. They must not be neglected by genuine Christians since they have deep spiritual meaning. Baptism is a commandment of Christ, but for believers only. And the scriptural mode of baptism was (and is) by full immersion, signifying death, burial, and resurrection.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#6
Christians see many false doctrines being promoted on Christian forums, particularly TULIP (Five Point Calvinism), works salvation, and baptismal regeneration (water baptism being necessary for salvation), All these false doctrines are REFUTED by Romans 10.

AN ELECT NATION IS NOT ELECTED FOR SALVATION (IMAGINE!)
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.


WORKS SALVATION: THE BANE OF ISRAEL
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK OF REDEMPTION MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE
4 For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

PERFECT OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW IS NECESSARY BUT IMPOSSIBLE
5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the Law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS IS GOD'S PLAN OF REDEMPTION
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead)

THE WORD OF FAITH IS NEAR EVERYONE WHO HEARS THE GOSPEL
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the Word of faith, which we preach;

"BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVED"
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

GOD WANTS TO SEE GENUINE FAITH AND PUBLIC PROFESSION OF THAT FAITH
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

SALVATION IS OFFERED TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE (WHOSOEVER)
11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed.

GOD’S GRACE IS UNLIMITED, AND SO IS CHRIST’S ATONEMENT
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.

BAPTISM IS NOT A CONDITION FOR SALVATION
13 For whosoever shall call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.

THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL IS A DIVINE NECESSITY
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

PREACHERS OF THE GOSPEL ARE CALLED AND SENT OUT BY GOD
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the Gospel of Peace, and bring Glad Tidings of good things!

NOT ALL WILL OBEY THE GOSPEL, THUS NOT ALL WILL BE SAVED
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

SAVING FAITH IS GENERATED THROUGH HEARING THE GOSPEL
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

THE GOSPEL HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE WORLD
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

ISRAEL SHOULD HAVE OBEYED THE GOSPEL BUT FAILED TO DO SO
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

GENTILES RESPONDED TO THE GOSPEL SOONER THAN JEWS
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

THE JEWS WHO RESISTED THE GOSPEL AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WERE DAMNED
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Salvation by Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". Your quotes are a prime example of misinterpreting the salvation scriptures. There is an eternal deliverance and there is a timely deliverance and timely deliverance has nothing to do with eternal deliverance. Most of the scriptures you have quoted has reference to timely deliverance. If you interpret all salvation scriptures to mean eternal you will come up with eternal salvation by your good works. All Israel is not of Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 33:28). The Israel in Romans 10:1 has reference to (Jacob-Israel) and not the whole nation of Israel. The fact that this Israel had a zeal of God indicates that they were born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the new birth. The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 could not have had a zeal of God. These men were born again but were still babes in Christ, not fully understanding the full gospel of Jesus (that they have the imputed righteousness of Christ) and were going about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works. Paul was praying that they would be delivered (saved) from their lack of knowledge of the gospel. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (born again) of the house of (Jacob-Israel).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#7
There are verses saying repent to be saved, believe and be baptized, repent and be baptized, eat Jesus' blood and flesh to be saved, believe to be saved, confess to be saved. Well which one is it then? Why does it say all that, what about John 3:16 and the Romans verses quoted above?

Is it true that you are saved by calling on the name of the Lord? Yes. But what about those other verses that mention more than just confession and belief?
What we see in our daily Christian walk is, after belief, confession, repentance usually comes water baptism and partaking of the Lord's supper. That is why I believe those other verses are there, but if anyone has another explanation I am all ears
Eternal salvation by your good works is a false doctrine. Not all salvation scriptures has reference to eternal deliverance. Repentance, confession, accepting Jesus, etc, is a product of already having been born again, and are all referring to a timely deliverance, not eternal.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#9
Some are instructions for the Jews during a different time period.
The inspired words of God were not written to the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, who cannot discern the things of the Spirit, but were written as instructions to his born again children as to how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth. That is why Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (born again) of the house of Israel which is Jacobs new name (Gen 33:28).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#10
That is correct. Water baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances for the Church, and come after salvation. They must not be neglected by genuine Christians since they have deep spiritual meaning. Baptism is a commandment of Christ, but for believers only. And the scriptural mode of baptism was (and is) by full immersion, signifying death, burial, and resurrection.
I never thought I would say this, but I totally agree with you on this particular statement.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,693
676
113
#11
Salvation by Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". Your quotes are a prime example of misinterpreting the salvation scriptures. There is an eternal deliverance and there is a timely deliverance and timely deliverance has nothing to do with eternal deliverance. Most of the scriptures you have quoted has reference to timely deliverance. If you interpret all salvation scriptures to mean eternal you will come up with eternal salvation by your good works. All Israel is not of Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 33:28). The Israel in Romans 10:1 has reference to (Jacob-Israel) and not the whole nation of Israel. The fact that this Israel had a zeal of God indicates that they were born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the new birth. The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 could not have had a zeal of God. These men were born again but were still babes in Christ, not fully understanding the full gospel of Jesus (that they have the imputed righteousness of Christ) and were going about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works. Paul was praying that they would be delivered (saved) from their lack of knowledge of the gospel. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (born again) of the house of (Jacob-Israel).
Who has taught you this? You do not come away with such beliefs by the simple reading and studying of God’s word.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,990
5,442
113
#12
The fact that this Israel had a zeal of God indicates that they were born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the new birth. The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 could not have had a zeal of God. These men were born again but were still babes in Christ, not fully understanding the full gospel of Jesus (that they have the imputed righteousness of Christ) and were going about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works. Paul was praying that they would be delivered (saved) from their lack of knowledge of the gospel. Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (born again) of the house of (Jacob-Israel).
I believe that you have misinterpreted verse 2. A "zeal of God" (also translated as ,"zeal for God') is not necessarily a result of the indwelling Spirit. The context suggests rather that they have energy and focus for God according to their incorrect understanding of Him, similar to the Pharisees who challenged Jesus. They had head knowledge only, and were focused on outward appearances and observance of Law rather than genuine godly character. A modern parallel would be JW's who believe they are serving God with their many hours of proselytizing; they have zeal without proper understanding.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#13
Who has taught you this? You do not come away with such beliefs by the simple reading and studying of God’s word.
All scripture must harmonize if you are to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught. Scripture proves scripture.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,693
676
113
#14
All scripture must harmonize if you are to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught. Scripture proves scripture.
You keep saying this, but why? We are commanded to rightly divide the scriptures because they all don’t harmonize. There are divisions to be made according to dispensations.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#15
I believe that you have misinterpreted verse 2. A "zeal of God" (also translated as ,"zeal for God') is not necessarily a result of the indwelling Spirit. The context suggests rather that they have energy and focus for God according to their incorrect understanding of Him, similar to the Pharisees who challenged Jesus. They had head knowledge only, and were focused on outward appearances and observance of Law rather than genuine godly character. A modern parallel would be JW's who believe they are serving God with their many hours of proselytizing; they have zeal without proper understanding.
And are you concluding that these are not born again children of God? It is not for us to determine who is and who is not. David upset God for numbering Israel and was chastened by God for it.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#16
You keep saying this, but why? We are commanded to rightly divide the scriptures because they all don’t harmonize. There are divisions to be made according to dispensations.
That is probably your problem, if you think they do not supposed to harmonize. Most of my life I, supposedly, thought the scriptures did not harmonize, but they do. According to the Greek interpretations, there are different salvations, worlds, life's and more, if you rightly divide the word.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
6,693
676
113
#17
That is probably your problem, if you think they do not supposed to harmonize. Most of my life I, supposedly, thought the scriptures did not harmonize, but they do. According to the Greek interpretations, there are different salvations, worlds, life's and more, if you rightly divide the word.
You do not rightly divide my friend. Believe the word. I believe you have greeked yourself right out of believing the plain text.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,990
5,442
113
#18
And are you concluding that these are not born again children of God? It is not for us to determine who is and who is not. David upset God for numbering Israel and was chastened by God for it.
Yes, that is what I am concluding, because that is what the context tells me.

While we don't actually decide who is or is not born again (that's up to God), we can asses their status by the evidence of their lives. However, that is when dealing with specific individuals, which is not the case here. If we were to use your line of thinking, we could not discuss "unsaved persons" even in the abstract.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#19
You do not rightly divide my friend. Believe the word. I believe you have greeked yourself right out of believing the plain text.
You, possibly, may be like some of Jesus's disciples that told him "this is a hard saying, who can believe it".
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,006
336
83
#20
Yes, that is what I am concluding, because that is what the context tells me.

While we don't actually decide who is or is not born again (that's up to God), we can asses their status by the evidence of their lives. However, that is when dealing with specific individuals, which is not the case here. If we were to use your line of thinking, we could not discuss "unsaved persons" even in the abstract.
The only eternally unsaved people are the natural man that has not been born of the Spirit. There are many of God's born again people who are in need of deliverance (not eternal, but here in time) from walking in the ways of the world.