Romans 14:13

[FlSnookman7]

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.


It seems that lately we have become a more divided group here at CC. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems almost every thread degenerates into name calling and questioning one another's faith. I too have posted things more to prove my point than to edify God or uplift another. We are all smart enough to know what topics cause the most division. Would it be possible for "the regulars" here to come up with some new topics. Surely our faith is not limited to 3 or 4 issues.

In my short time here I have seen so many learned, God loving people. I just believe we could make this forum and in fact the world either a better place or not. Again, I accuse none but myself and if I am way off base I apologize.
Shalom.

 

[Shamah]

I have been getting called name like pharisee and lawyer simply for a post with only Scripture, so this is interesting to me... Also, Just for understanding proper doctrine what is a stumbling block and what is proper teaching and rebuke?

Leviticus 19:14, "‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling-block before the blind, but fear your Mighty One. I am יהוה.

Luke 17:3-4, “So be on your guard! If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him! But if he repents, forgive him! And if he trespasses against you seven times in one day, and seven times in that day turns to you, and says; I repent; then you must forgive him.”


Matthew 18:21-22, “Then Kĕpha came to Him and said, “Master, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” יהושע said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.”


Proverbs 10:17, "He who keeps instruction is in the way of life, but he who refuses reproof goes astray."

I think the stumbling block is a doctrine someone is not ready for or purposely trying to trip someone up, etc.

Leviticus 19:14, "‘Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling-block before the blind, but fear your Mighty One. I am יהוה.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Romans 14 King James Version (KJV)

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Romans 14 Amplified Bible (AMP)

Principles of Conscience

14 As for the [a]one whose faith is weak, accept him [into your fellowship], but not for [the purpose of] quarreling over his opinions. 2 One man’s faith permits him to eat everything, while the weak believer eats only vegetables [to avoid eating ritually unclean meat or something previously considered unclean]. 3 The one who eats [everything] is not to look down on the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat must not criticize orpass judgment on the one who eats [everything], for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? Before his own master he stands [approved] or falls [out of favor]. And he [who serves the Master—the Lord] will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person regards one day as better [or more important] than another, while another regards every day [the same as any other]. Let everyone be fully convinced (assured, satisfied) in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord. He who eats, eats for the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains for the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 None of us lives for himself [for his own benefit, but for the Lord], and none of us dies for himself [but for the Lord]. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord, and if we die, we die for the Lord. So then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For Christ died and lived again for this reason, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But you, why do you criticize your brother? Or you again, why do you look down on your [believing] brother or regard him with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God [who alone is judge]. 11 For it is written [in Scripture],
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall give praise to God.”

12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Then let us not criticize one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block or a source of temptation in another believer’s way. 14 I know and am convinced [as one] in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean [ritually defiled, and unholy] in itself; but [nonetheless] it is unclean to anyone who thinks it is unclean. 15 If your brother is being hurt or offended because of food [that you insist on eating], you are no longer walking in love [toward him]. Do not let what you eat destroy and spiritually harm one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what is a good thing for you [because of your freedom to choose] be spoken of as evil [by someone else]; 17 for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking [what one likes], but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For the one who serves Christ in this way [recognizing that food choice is secondary] is acceptable to God and is approved by men. 19 So then, let us pursue [with enthusiasm] the things which make for peace and the building up of one another [things which lead to spiritual growth]. 20 Do not, for the sake of food, tear down the work of God. All things indeed are [ceremonially] clean, but they are wrong for the person who eats and offends [another’s conscience in the process]. 21 It is good [to do the right thing and] not eat meat or drink wine, or do anything that offends your brother and weakens him spiritually. 22 The faith which you have [that gives you freedom of choice], have as your own conviction before God [just keep it between yourself and God, seeking His will]. Happy is he who has no reason to condemn himself for what he approves. 23 But he who is uncertain [about eating a particular thing] is condemned if he eats, because he is not acting from faith. Whatever is not from faith is sin [whatever is done with doubt is sinful].

 

[Nehemiah6]

It seems that lately we have become a more divided group here at CC. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems almost every thread degenerates into name calling and questioning one another's faith.

There is a very simple solution to this, if all would follow it. Focus on the ISSUE not on the person. And you are correct. The range of topics is limited, and every issue becomes beating a dead horse. I would suggest that after say 200 posts (or even less), the mods should simply shut down threads, and compel people to start new topics. Also the resurrection of ancient threads should be verboten. If Christians cannot stay fresh then there is definitely a problem.

 

[Waggles]

 

[FlSnookman7]

I do miss the far side..

 

[Ariel82]

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.


It seems that lately we have become a more divided group here at CC. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems almost every thread degenerates into name calling and questioning one another's faith. I too have posted things more to prove my point than to edify God or uplift another. We are all smart enough to know what topics cause the most division. Would it be possible for "the regulars" here to come up with some new topics. Surely our faith is not limited to 3 or 4 issues.

In my short time here I have seen so many learned, God loving people. I just believe we could make this forum and in fact the world either a better place or not. Again, I accuse none but myself and if I am way off base I apologize.
Shalom.

what topics would you like to discuss that might not fall into fighting?

if you post something everyone agrees with, there is no discussion so the thread falls to the back pages. the way this forum is set up, makes the most contraversal topics remain up front.

we have to choose to which to focus our attention on.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Gary Larson is da bomb diggity!

 

[Depleted]

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.


It seems that lately we have become a more divided group here at CC. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems almost every thread degenerates into name calling and questioning one another's faith. I too have posted things more to prove my point than to edify God or uplift another. We are all smart enough to know what topics cause the most division. Would it be possible for "the regulars" here to come up with some new topics. Surely our faith is not limited to 3 or 4 issues.

In my short time here I have seen so many learned, God loving people. I just believe we could make this forum and in fact the world either a better place or not. Again, I accuse none but myself and if I am way off base I apologize.
Shalom.

I can't promise I will go back to regular topics since modern eschatology, Sabbath stuff, KJV, and works vs. grace don't interest me, but I will promise to lay off WoF propaganda when you all stop promoting it on here as gospel.

Deal?

 

[Depleted]

Romans 14 King James Version (KJV)

1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Exactly why I fight WoF, for the weak. It's not just a stumbling block. It's heresy.

 

[FlSnookman7]

I can't promise I will go back to regular topics since modern eschatology, Sabbath stuff, KJV, and works vs. grace don't interest me, but I will promise to lay off WoF propaganda when you all stop promoting it on here as gospel.

Deal?

I actually do not consider myself a WOF guy. I find my beliefs are somewhat a mixture. I attend a non denominational church with pentacost leanings but I also attend a grace baptist church. I am not all that big on organized religion. I have been called everything from a greasy gracer to a judizer and from a bible thumper to too flippant. I am ok with that as I only answer to Jesus. As my faith grows my ideas on some things also grow and change but when I put forth any ideas they are based on my walk and things I have been shown by the Holy Spirit and by humans. I never claimed to be a teacher and in fact I am the opposite. I hope I will continue to find new insights as long as I live here on this planet.

I have learned things from you and many others here who probably consider me if not a heretic then misguided and again, that's ok. I can only put forth the truth as I see it and try to do so in a loving manner.

 

[MarcR]

This is truly a noble thought. I don't think it will or even should work. The forum is not the Church; whether or not the members of the forum are also members of the church.

The nature of a forum is that it is expected to be a place where ideas are attacked to determine whether they can withstand attack and still be believed. It is unfortunate that some forum members lack the maturity and/or debating skills to confine their attacks to ideas not people. It is also unfortunate that some (myself included) usually exercise those skills but become exasperated with the behavior of some forum members to the point that civility gets lost in the struggle.

 

[FlSnookman7]

This is truly a noble thought. I don't think it will or even should work. The forum is not the Church; whether or not the members of the forum are also members of the church.

The nature of a forum is that it is expected to be a place where ideas are attacked to determine whether they can withstand attack and still be believed. It is unfortunate that some forum members lack the maturity and/or debating skills to confine their attacks to ideas not people. It is also unfortunate that some (myself included) usually exercise those skills but become exasperated with the behavior of some forum members to the point that civility gets lost in the struggle.

I agree it is the nature of "a" forum, but must it be the nature of THIS forum? We are after all a peculiar people, set apart from this world. Should we not at least make the effort here where many undecided people may happen upon in their own search for Jesus?

Again, I will and must work on my own debate skills.

 

[Ariel82]

Gary Larson is da bomb diggity!

who is gary larson?"

 

[Ariel82]

I actually do not consider myself a WOF guy. I find my beliefs are somewhat a mixture. I attend a non denominational church with pentacost leanings but I also attend a grace baptist church. I am not all that big on organized religion. I have been called everything from a greasy gracer to a judizer and from a bible thumper to too flippant. I am ok with that as I only answer to Jesus. As my faith grows my ideas on some things also grow and change but when I put forth any ideas they are based on my walk and things I have been shown by the Holy Spirit and by humans. I never claimed to be a teacher and in fact I am the opposite. I hope I will continue to find new insights as long as I live here on this planet.

I have learned things from you and many others here who probably consider me if not a heretic then misguided and again, that's ok. I can only put forth the truth as I see it and try to do so in a loving manner.

God seeks a humble heart and a teachable spirit inside us all. we need to admit that we don't have all the answers. just a piece of the puzzle that God has instructed us to help grow and learn and live. as we live with one another we see more and more of the WHOLE plan God has not only for our lives but for the Church family we are all a part of.

however though disagreements do not have to de-evolve into bickering. disagreeing and debating a topic is not in itself evil. it is good for Iron to sharpen iron, but bad to use the sharp iron to stab someone in the heart and judge their salvation or try and sever their connection with God. however severing connections with idols and false images of God is a good thing. so its hard to tell by just glancing at a thread or words being spoken. it takes prayer and discernement and trust that the HOLY SPIRIT is alive and able to speak into ALL of our lives.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.


It seems that lately we have become a more divided group here at CC. Perhaps I am mistaken but it seems almost every thread degenerates into name calling and questioning one another's faith. I too have posted things more to prove my point than to edify God or uplift another. We are all smart enough to know what topics cause the most division. Would it be possible for "the regulars" here to come up with some new topics. Surely our faith is not limited to 3 or 4 issues.

In my short time here I have seen so many learned, God loving people. I just believe we could make this forum and in fact the world either a better place or not. Again, I accuse none but myself and if I am way off base I apologize.
Shalom.

Since I counted the word "eat" and "food" thirteen times in that whole chapter (NLT) it is obvious you have no idea what Paul is saying.

 

[Depleted]

I actually do not consider myself a WOF guy. I find my beliefs are somewhat a mixture. I attend a non denominational church with pentacost leanings but I also attend a grace baptist church. I am not all that big on organized religion. I have been called everything from a greasy gracer to a judizer and from a bible thumper to too flippant. I am ok with that as I only answer to Jesus. As my faith grows my ideas on some things also grow and change but when I put forth any ideas they are based on my walk and things I have been shown by the Holy Spirit and by humans. I never claimed to be a teacher and in fact I am the opposite. I hope I will continue to find new insights as long as I live here on this planet.

I have learned things from you and many others here who probably consider me if not a heretic then misguided and again, that's ok. I can only put forth the truth as I see it and try to do so in a loving manner.

When you're patting people on the back for posting heresy, and then riling against those who tell it is heresy, it really doesn't matter what you consider yourself. Actions speak louder than words.

It's not loving. It's not truth.

How about checking out what God considers truth and love, instead of settling for your understanding? You really will have to answer to God one day. I hope as Paul, not Saul.

 

[Depleted]

This is truly a noble thought. I don't think it will or even should work. The forum is not the Church; whether or not the members of the forum are also members of the church.

The nature of a forum is that it is expected to be a place where ideas are attacked to determine whether they can withstand attack and still be believed. It is unfortunate that some forum members lack the maturity and/or debating skills to confine their attacks to ideas not people. It is also unfortunate that some (myself included) usually exercise those skills but become exasperated with the behavior of some forum members to the point that civility gets lost in the struggle.

It really is NOT a noble thought. What he is asking for is the ability, on this forum, to post whatever anyone wants to and consider it "God's word." What he really means is for us to lay off WoFers. To give them the same freedom to copy-paste their beliefs in peace as.... well? Frankly, as a very special equality, because absolutely no one else is given that very special equality either.

What he is asking is for dandelions, crabgrass, poison ivy, mile-a-minute weed, and jimsonweed to invade the garden and be treated as equals to the plants the Lord has planted.

I had a weird nightmare this morning. I'm an urban container gardener, and gardening season is coming. My dream was I went out back for the first time to prepare for garden season, and all my containers already had plenty of green growing. (Early March here means any plant out back that is green is either evergreen, or stubborn enough to keep the leaves, even in winter -- like sage and thyme. The only thing getting its summer colors on already is the scallions.) Weeds had taken over the garden at the expensive of the real-plants.

When I woke up, I saw that same image as this site.

I am a gardener. I do know there will always be weeds. But now is the time to pull out as many weeds as possible to protect the real-plants. Otherwise, the weeds choke the real-plants to death. At best, the real-plants grow stumpy.

Nope. Not going to let WoF-weeds take over this site just because they want everyone else to back off, so they can. Civility be damned!

I will let that happen when the name of this site turns into WoF.com.

 

[Depleted]

who is gary larson?"

Far Side creator.