romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

[followjesus]

if He disobeyed any law He in fact did not fulfill the law. doesnt matter mosaic or any other, Jesus and the 12 didnt cherry pick the scriptures for only what they wanted to hear, thats what we do today to make our doctrines work.


why would Jesus Christ the righteous follow this law

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;..



these kinds of People are given a Law, not Gods Son who was above all .......he is the fulfillment OF the law.


you arent understanding what " fulfillment of the Law" even means. until His baptism the law was preached, when He was baptized He began preaching the Gospel.

the fulfillment of the Law By Jesus, is because His coming, fulfilled what the Law was for and what it really said and was talking about. the law of moses is a shadow, a pattern for what would come.


Jesus fulfilled it in this way in the Law of Moses this is made a Law to be observed every year throughout all generations.

this is the first passover that was later made an annual feast and sabbath day.

Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:6And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. <<<< Jesus is the fulfillment of that in this way

john 1:29 " The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

matthew 26: Ye know that after two days is the feast ofthe passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.3Then assembled together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, unto the palace of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas, 4And consulted that they might take Jesus by subtilty, and kill him."

matthew 27 " But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. 21The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas. 22Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified. 23And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified."


1 corinthians 5:7 " Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:thats what Jesus fulfilled the law means, thats one example, but its that way throughout, Jesus is the fulfillment, or the manifestation of the Law. its only a shadow looking through a veil. it was teaching about Jesus before He ever came with Light. Like paul says it was a tutor, to bring us to Christ. and a witness against sinners to condemn them. Jesus surely obeyed the Law of Moses perfectly until His baptism, but that is where the Gospel takes over and He starts mediating Gods eternal covenant. that the Law was always foretelling He would Bring.

 

[jaybird88]

i think possibly you may not grasp that the Law of moses, is written in the Bible, and was read to isreals people by the priests of the levites?

we dont have to argue this point friend the pharisees were absolutely correct, when they brought the guilty adulterer and said " Moses commanded in the law that we stone Here "...what say you Jesus?

if you arenbt aware what the Mosaic Law is, read the books of exodus, numbers, leviticus, and deuteronomy. you will find that Moses commanded not only adulterers stoned such as here in Leviticus 20 as i left in the comment.

And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. <


they would have had to stone her, and then go get the man and stone Him to death. in order to keep the mosaic Law. this is not an opinion lol the law is written, and the isrealites gathered to Hear it read aloud by the priests every seven Years. its the kind of thing, you have to actually study the Law, to see though. for Jesus to have kept the MOSAIC Law He would have had to say. yes you are right stone her, it is written, the adulterers must be put to death." thats really not a debate. read the Mosaic Law and then the Gospel and then tell; me that they are not different entirely. but seperate when God speaks at Horeb, and what Moses writes after that.

where are the witnesses to this crime? do you really think just anyone could accuse their spouse with no witnesses and have them killed? would you make laws like this, of course not because we both know they would be laws of a cruel unjust leader, so why do you think the Father would make such laws?
Jesus fulfilled the law, this means He obeyed them, all of them, not just a few here and there, im sorry but there is no way around this, the only way would be for you to write another version of the NT.

 

[followjesus]

what are you talking about?

you think that the lesson there is " dont stone anyone unless there are witnesses"? ......alright, well I hope your future studies are blessed.

 

[jaybird88]

what are you talking about?

you think that the lesson there is " dont stone anyone unless there are witnesses"? ......alright, well I hope your future studies are blessed.

im talking about there are no witnesses, pretty simple. no one in there right mind would sentence anyone to death with no witnesses and the scriptures are no exception.
is that what the passage is about, it has a much deeper meaning than whether or not Jesus broke a law. the passage starts off with one critical thing you are missing, it had nothing to do with a woman being accused, it had everything to do with these corrupt leaders testing Jesus, there is no way these idiots are going to get the best of Jesus. after He spoke they took off and had no more interest in the matter.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Those that are trying to keep the Ten Commandments don’t realize that In trying to keep the Ten Commandments they have fallen from grace meaning you have fallen Into the category of work<<<<

that is ridiculous. and why people have to distinguish between the Mosaic Law which is where the ordinances, works, condemnation all are, the Ones who keep the commandments, are those who Love according to God. simple i cant Love and steal from you at the same time, i have to repent of One and do the other, i cant Love you and also bear a false witness against you, I cant Love you and also plot to kill you at the same time, I cant Love my wife and also commit adultery,


Love will keep the commandments, and when a person is tempted, to sin, Love will still keep the commandments, God will never, Not endorse His words, the ten commandments were spoken to the people By God. gotta keeop the commandments, to teach things like how keeping the commandmnts really is a fiutile efort to teach people they camt, is to ignore the gospels meessage and the empowerment of the Holy Ghost.

were made in Christ to do the good things expected of us. not to ignore Gods Word.

like I said,you don't realize that basically you are saying that GOD did the WORK and I help.
What does JESUS Is the vine,we are the branches RECEIVING SUSTENANCE mean to you?

Give GOD ALL the credit.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Those that are trying to keep the Ten Commandments don’t realize that In trying to keep the Ten Commandments they have fallen from grace meaning you have fallen Into the category of work<<<<

that is ridiculous. and why people have to distinguish between the Mosaic Law which is where the ordinances, works, condemnation all are, the Ones who keep the commandments, are those who Love according to God. simple i cant Love and steal from you at the same time, i have to repent of One and do the other, i cant Love you and also bear a false witness against you, I cant Love you and also plot to kill you at the same time, I cant Love my wife and also commit adultery,


Love will keep the commandments, and when a person is tempted, to sin, Love will still keep the commandments, God will never, Not endorse His words, the ten commandments were spoken to the people By God. gotta keeop the commandments, to teach things like how keeping the commandmnts really is a fiutile efort to teach people they camt, is to ignore the gospels meessage and the empowerment of the Holy Ghost.

were made in Christ to do the good things expected of us. not to ignore Gods Word.

like I said,you don't realize that basically you are saying that GOD did the WORK and I help.
What does JESUS Is the vine,we are the branches RECEIVING SUSTENANCE from the vine mean to you?

Give GOD ALL the credit.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Those that are trying to keep the Ten Commandments don’t realize that In trying to keep the Ten Commandments they have fallen from grace meaning you have fallen Into the category of work<<<<

that is ridiculous. and why people have to distinguish between the Mosaic Law which is where the ordinances, works, condemnation all are, the Ones who keep the commandments, are those who Love according to God. simple i cant Love and steal from you at the same time, i have to repent of One and do the other, i cant Love you and also bear a false witness against you, I cant Love you and also plot to kill you at the same time, I cant Love my wife and also commit adultery,


Love will keep the commandments, and when a person is tempted, to sin, Love will still keep the commandments, God will never, Not endorse His words, the ten commandments were spoken to the people By God. gotta keeop the commandments, to teach things like how keeping the commandmnts really is a fiutile efort to teach people they camt, is to ignore the gospels meessage and the empowerment of the Holy Ghost.

were made in Christ to do the good things expected of us. not to ignore Gods Word.

like I said,you don't realize that basically you are saying that GOD did the WORK and I help.
What does JESUS Is the vine,we are the branches RECEIVING SUSTENANCE from the vine mean to you?

Give GOD ALL the credit.

 

[followjesus]

Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"


Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”


Mat 15:24, “And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’yl.”

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”



Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."


Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”


Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

[FONT=&quot]Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master [/FONT][FONT=&quot]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=&quot].”


[/FONT]matthew 13 " All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:35That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.


Isaiah 42 " Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.3A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.4He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law."


romans 7 " What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. ( because we are sinners by nature the Law produces rebellion) For without the law sin was dead.9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, ( thou shalt not or you will die) sin revived, and I died.10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. ( we are all dead because of sin and the law saying it is death the sin in our hearts killed us by the law saying the sinner must be put to death)

the solution is the Law of Jesus Christ that says even though you have already sinned and are sentanced to death by the Holy Law, i forgive you now, believe in Me and Hear and follow me and i will give you eternal Life.

romans 8 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

 

[followjesus]

like I said,you don't realize that basically you are saying that GOD did the WORK and I help.
What does JESUS Is the vine,we are the branches RECEIVING SUSTENANCE from the vine mean to you?

Give GOD ALL the credit.

who are y6ou to determine where i give credit?

God did all the work, that makes us able to do the things He said to do lol its not difficult to give God glory Jesus way, is to do the things He died to make us able to do, thats salvation. we who were dead, are now given a choice to Live forever according to the Gospel. anyone can learn what God said, by spending some time in the Gospel.


God gets the glory when i wake each day, and do the things Jesus came to make me able to do. it doesnt give God glory to thank Him that im free to keep doing the wrong things, it praises God, when we go out and do what Jesus said to do. Love people in deed and truth, that gives Glory to Jesus, because His name is always the reason and the message. im perfectly content with my own relationship with Jesus, that doesnt have anything to do with discussing the Bible however. walking the way He taught us to walk.....is in no way lol shorting Jesus of credit.

obeying the commandments is in no univers a bad thing to believe. good is not evil. we are not useles and helpless puppets controlled by unseen forces. we have an option thanks to Jesus. we can believe , repent and deny ourselves, pick up the cross and follow the Lords gospel, or we can argue that doing that, just shorts God of the credit.......but Just to clarify, Jesus is the One who said to do the things He taught us. we absolutely have to accept His way of salvation and get away from the idea that Jesus taught something other than the gospel. it is " neither do I condemn you for what you have done, Now go and do the things i am teaching you, to do."


thats not different from the beginning of time to the end. adam died because of what He chose to do. Hearing both Gods word, and satans word. thats not on God , God did everything for adam, that He could Not die, he warned Him. adams choice and action caused death.

its not different now, we have a new covenant but we still have to accept the Word of God for the new covenant. sure God gets the credit, ive never said different, i think that some see " we have to do Our part according to the Gospel Jesus taught" and then perceive " self works and not giving any credit to God"

really though, ots just believing what Jesus taught, what God sent Him to teach us, to heal us inside that we can and are taught to go do the things, Jesus suffered to make us able to do. He paid a really High price, the ighest price ever paid or that will be paid was given By Jesus to give us Hope and a New Life and relationship with God, so as God would call Us His children who come to Him through His only Son.


it may Just be me, nut thats a very worthy thing to give all i have inside, all that God has given me inside, to serve Him the way He plainly set forth in His word. eternal life and all the promises Jesus makes, are worth commitment. He is worthy to be praised and thanked, with out deeds and not our words alone. next time you see someone with a need, Help them in His name that is to give Him Glory.

 

[followjesus]

What does JESUS Is the vine,we are the branches RECEIVING SUSTENANCE from the vine mean to you?"


very good question My answer is this

john 15 " I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."


thats what the vine proverb means to me. i just dont " divide" out the instructions My Lord Gave for His disciples to do , following His word, His teachings. Keeping His commandments, learning from His teachings and ways, His wisdom, thats not something Jesus does for us, its something Jesus told us to do. theres no reason to change that, a person will never come into obedience until they understand thats what God is saying. when we make the argument " thats a bad thing it negates glory and credit to God" its the same as saying " Obeying God is not what God wants from us" when , it is the whole pont of the Gospel.


we have to accept things Jesus said the vine, is something we have to abide in, if we choose not to, well thats pretty clear also there, the thing is, nothing will ever change the things Jesus said, and Jesus clearly teaches we have much that we are to be doing not resisting anything that takes effort to somehow glorify God. anything that leads a person away from what they are supposed to do accoprding to Jesus, is off the mark.

 

[followjesus]

im talking about there are no witnesses, pretty simple. no one in there right mind would sentence anyone to death with no witnesses and the scriptures are no exception.
is that what the passage is about, it has a much deeper meaning than whether or not Jesus broke a law. the passage starts off with one critical thing you are missing, it had nothing to do with a woman being accused, it had everything to do with these corrupt leaders testing Jesus, there is no way these idiots are going to get the best of Jesus. after He spoke they took off and had no more interest in the matter.

Brother, she was caught in the act they said, its not a matter of if they witnessed it. its actually a flaw in the thinking that Jesus is the Only One to ever obey the Law, and thats what " fulfillment means, the bible mentions just that i can think of right now, 5 people that could deliver themselves with thier own righteousness, 2 other than Jesus , that the Bible clearly says had obeyed the laws and ordinances and were righteous and blameless before God. heres that clear scripture

Luke 1 " There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."


that is really not debatable, they obeyed the law, were righteous before God,before Jesus was born on earth.... BUT, that did not "fulfill" the law, the law was not an oracle promising thier coming, like it is Jesus. people obeyed the law others are mentioned as well. just like johns parents here.

Jesus fulfills the Law with His Life and ministry, and "it is finished" completely fulfilled when He dies for us on the cross.

the resurrection Has a law it is the Gospel. its not as if we do not obey God, we Obey God through Jesus and His doctrine , rather than Moses and His. they are different its not distorting anything to show the truth, heres Jesus even telling them why it is different than what Moses commanded them in the mosaic Law.

The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?( deauteronomy 24:1-4) 4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."


its two different things, One is the law for sinners without the holy ghost, the other is for those who accept Christ and pray as He taught us to Our Heavenly Father, because we are the true Heirs of God. God doesnt care about our bloodline, He cares about whether we accept the Blood of Jesus. He doesnt care if our parents have us circumcised on the eigth day, he cares that we circumcize the flesh from our Heart with the Word of Christ because that will fix the sinner in rebellion issue and then the law of moses is not necassary any further for the believer in Christ. its meant to Lead us to Him and the Gospel He will teach people the truth of Gods Law, and quicken them. He is te One to believe and follow, Moses is Just to believe because it will lead to understanding Jesus.


what Jesus did to the ones going to stone her on a side note, was turn the judgement they had against Her for Her sin, and shined a light on thier conscience regarding thier sin. saying " if you are sinless go for it and stone her. " the " he who is without sin" part is what convicted them.


its another principle teaching that recurrs in the gospel

judge not, Lest Ye be Judged ....forgive and you will be forgive.... be merciful as your father is merciful.... blessed are the merciful for they will be shown mercy...by the measure you use it will be measured to you"


Jesus saved Her, and every one of us, is just like her. Jesus has said " Neither do I condemn you, Now come to me and learn from Me, I am Gentle and humble in Heart, I will give you rest for your soul.....


this verses the first covenant when God appeared in a raging storm of fire lightning, darkness, commanding no one approach even the mountain He was going to descend upon ....Jesus who came to the unclean and condemned the Lost without hope....who let the sinful woman touch Him whole the pharisee scoffed, who taught the pharisee that this Kind of person is who He came seeking after and those who are the " righteous" appreciate salvation less. " He who id forgiven little, Loves Little, the One forgiven Much Loves Much,

Gods will is what we see in Jesus and the Gospel. its Life. God bless you

 

[seed_time_harvest]

who are y6ou to determine where i give credit?

God did all the work, that makes us able to do the things He said to do lol its not difficult to give God glory Jesus way, is to do the things He died to make us able to do, thats salvation. we who were dead, are now given a choice to Live forever according to the Gospel. anyone can learn what God said, by spending some time in the Gospel.


God gets the glory when i wake each day, and do the things Jesus came to make me able to do. it doesnt give God glory to thank Him that im free to keep doing the wrong things, it praises God, when we go out and do what Jesus said to do. Love people in deed and truth, that gives Glory to Jesus, because His name is always the reason and the message. im perfectly content with my own relationship with Jesus, that doesnt have anything to do with discussing the Bible however. walking the way He taught us to walk.....is in no way lol shorting Jesus of credit.

obeying the commandments is in no univers a bad thing to believe. good is not evil. we are not useles and helpless puppets controlled by unseen forces. we have an option thanks to Jesus. we can believe , repent and deny ourselves, pick up the cross and follow the Lords gospel, or we can argue that doing that, just shorts God of the credit.......but Just to clarify, Jesus is the One who said to do the things He taught us. we absolutely have to accept His way of salvation and get away from the idea that Jesus taught something other than the gospel. it is " neither do I condemn you for what you have done, Now go and do the things i am teaching you, to do."


thats not different from the beginning of time to the end. adam died because of what He chose to do. Hearing both Gods word, and satans word. thats not on God , God did everything for adam, that He could Not die, he warned Him. adams choice and action caused death.

its not different now, we have a new covenant but we still have to accept the Word of God for the new covenant. sure God gets the credit, ive never said different, i think that some see " we have to do Our part according to the Gospel Jesus taught" and then perceive " self works and not giving any credit to God"

really though, ots just believing what Jesus taught, what God sent Him to teach us, to heal us inside that we can and are taught to go do the things, Jesus suffered to make us able to do. He paid a really High price, the ighest price ever paid or that will be paid was given By Jesus to give us Hope and a New Life and relationship with God, so as God would call Us His children who come to Him through His only Son.


it may Just be me, nut thats a very worthy thing to give all i have inside, all that God has given me inside, to serve Him the way He plainly set forth in His word. eternal life and all the promises Jesus makes, are worth commitment. He is worthy to be praised and thanked, with out deeds and not our words alone. next time you see someone with a need, Help them in His name that is to give Him Glory.

I think we are on the same page just know that If you are GOD's workmanship created IN CHRIST then you have been equipped to walk unto good works and that's all I mean by give GOD ALL the credit because you can't do anything unless GOD supplies you.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

we have to accept things Jesus said the vine, is something we have to abide in, if we choose not to, well thats pretty clear also there, the thing is, nothing will ever change the things Jesus said, and Jesus clearly teaches we have much that we are to be doing not resisting anything that takes effort to somehow glorify God. anything that leads a person away from what they are supposed to do accoprding to Jesus, is off the mark.

I had a feeling that you were.looking at the word abide that way,abide only means that that's where you are living and not that you have to DO anything other than receive sustenance from the vine are other wise you would not be In the vine.

For we are HIS workmanship created IN CHRIST unto good works.

If the person Is In the vine then they are GOD's workmanship and they will just receive and display spiritual fruit.

That's why I have been saying give GOD All the credit.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Forgive me for those duplicate post#66 and 67,my connection slowed down so much until I clicked submit and I didn't see my post come up and I clicked It again and I realized I had lost my connection,I logged on again and saw duplicate post but the 5 minute window was up

 

[jaybird88]

Brother, she was caught in the act they said, its not a matter of if they witnessed it.

show me the witnesses of this crime? there are none. you can not put someone to death with no witnesses.
its like you believe the only purpose of the law was for punishment. the law was for justice. it would never be just to put someone to death without a single witness.

the point of the teaching is the church leaders were guilty of far worse crimes and yet they are the very ones judging averyone. that is an abomination and that is what Jesus was trying to teach but so many still dont get it.

that is really not debatable, they obeyed the law, were righteous before God,before Jesus was born on earth.... BUT, that did not "fulfill" the law, the law was not an oracle promising thier coming, like it is Jesus. people obeyed the law others are mentioned as well. just like johns parents here.

Jesus fulfills the Law with His Life and ministry, and "it is finished" completely fulfilled when He dies for us on the cross.

fullfilling the law means doing the law, the first believers called themselves doers of the law, Jesus, James, the 12, Paul etc etc all followed the law. the law is written on our heart, that does not mean it went away.

 

[followjesus]

show me the witnesses of this crime? there are none. you can not put someone to death with no witnesses.
its like you believe the only purpose of the law was for punishment. the law was for justice. it would never be just to put someone to death without a single witness.

the point of the teaching is the church leaders were guilty of far worse crimes and yet they are the very ones judging averyone. that is an abomination and that is what Jesus was trying to teach but so many still dont get it.


fullfilling the law means doing the law, the first believers called themselves doers of the law, Jesus, James, the 12, Paul etc etc all followed the law. the law is written on our heart, that does not mean it went away.

show me the witnesses of this crime? there are none. you can not put someone to death with no witnesses.

bro........nevermind



listen though, if you witness someone doing a sin, please dont gather up stones, thats not the lesson to grasp there. the lesson is, do not stone another person for sin, Unless you are sinless. ( just to be clear, no one apart from Jesus is)

Jesus did not teach the Mosaic Law, im sorry you cant see that I appreciate the discussion either way though.

Luke 16:16 " The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."


malachi 3 " Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts."

4 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. {THE END OF THE PROPHETS.}

Matthew 11 " Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:>>>> notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

14And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 15He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."



John is the greatest born of women, but the one who is the least in the Kingdom is Greater than He" <<<

because John, is the end of the first covenant, thats what baptism is. the first person to accept Jesus gospel, was greater than John, because they are part of a greater covenant. why do you suppose the bible is divided right where the promises for John and Jesus to come with the covenant, and picks up with the story of John the baptist, and Jesus and the Gospel?

eternal Life v a blessed long life and then you die and rest in the earth, in israel around 2800 or so years ago. better covenant is the Gospel.

 

[followjesus]

show me the witnesses of this crime? there are none. you can not put someone to death with no witnesses.
its like you believe the only purpose of the law was for punishment. the law was for justice. it would never be just to put someone to death without a single witness.

the point of the teaching is the church leaders were guilty of far worse crimes and yet they are the very ones judging averyone. that is an abomination and that is what Jesus was trying to teach but so many still dont get it.


fullfilling the law means doing the law, the first believers called themselves doers of the law, Jesus, James, the 12, Paul etc etc all followed the law. the law is written on our heart, that does not mean it went away.

fullfilling the law means doing the law,


so then johns parents both " fulfilled the law then?"

if thats the case, why did Jesus have to come and fulfill the law?

and you after all this havent Heard me. the christians believer, is baptized into Jesus death, so that the law is fulfilled for them. the law is fulfilled by death that is the Only release from it. thats Why Jesus was sent to die lol..... His death is the culmination of the Law, because He had Just died to shed the Blood of the new testament. its why Jesus died, to fulfill the Law. its what was always going to fulfill the law, when Jesus came taught the covenant and died to remit our sins, and rise from Death to justify us in the forebearance of God for the sins commited under the first testaments mediation, that of Moses.

and set us into a better, a far better covenant with far better promises. eternal everlasting Life against 90 or so blessed years with many sheep and children. then you die because of sin, and are laid in the ground to await the Judgement.....you should learn from the Law, and follow Jesus.

 

[jaybird88]

fullfilling the law means doing the law,


so then johns parents both " fulfilled the law then?"

if thats the case, why did Jesus have to come and fulfill the law?

and you after all this havent Heard me. the christians believer, is baptized into Jesus death, so that the law is fulfilled for them. the law is fulfilled by death that is the Only release from it. thats Why Jesus was sent to die lol..... His death is the culmination of the Law, because He had Just died to shed the Blood of the new testament. its why Jesus died, to fulfill the Law. its what was always going to fulfill the law, when Jesus came taught the covenant and died to remit our sins, and rise from Death to justify us in the forebearance of God for the sins commited under the first testaments mediation, that of Moses.

and set us into a better, a far better covenant with far better promises. eternal everlasting Life against 90 or so blessed years with many sheep and children. then you die because of sin, and are laid in the ground to await the Judgement.....you should learn from the Law, and follow Jesus.

Jesus followed the law to be an example for others. look at Jerusalem at the time, it was corrupt, everyone was leaving, it was in a fallen state, the Lord always brings His people back,
why did James, Paul and most all the first Christians follow the law?
it makes no sense to think you would follow Jesus by not following Him. how does that even work??

 

[beta]

What does JESUS Is the vine,we are the branches RECEIVING SUSTENANCE from the vine mean to you?"


very good question My answer is this

john 15 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."


thats what the vine proverb means to me. i just dont " divide" out the instructions My Lord Gave for His disciples to do , following His word, His teachings. Keeping His commandments, learning from His teachings and ways, His wisdom, thats not something Jesus does for us, its something Jesus told us to do. theres no reason to change that, a person will never come into obedience until they understand thats what God is saying. when we make the argument " thats a bad thing it negates glory and credit to God" its the same as saying " Obeying God is not what God wants from us" when , it is the whole pont of the Gospel.


we have to accept things Jesus said the vine, is something we have to abide in, if we choose not to, well thats pretty clear also there, the thing is, nothing will ever change the things Jesus said, and Jesus clearly teaches we have much that we are to be doing not resisting anything that takes effort to somehow glorify God. anything that leads a person away from what they are supposed to do accoprding to Jesus, is off the mark.

Totally agree ! it's called ''being conformed to His image and likeness...
Traditional christian teaching is in serious error here when teaching that WE should not lift a finger. WE are supposed to walk WITH Jesus and DO everything He wants us to do !
To do and keep His Word IS to give Him Glory !

 

[followjesus]

Totally agree ! it's called ''being conformed to His image and likeness...
Traditional christian teaching is in serious error here when teaching that WE should not lift a finger. WE are supposed to walk WITH Jesus and DO everything He wants us to do !
To do and keep His Word IS to give Him Glory !

Yes because it is " I can do all things, through Christ who strengthens me" it isnt Jesus did all the things he clearly taught His followers to do already for us a Major part of what He did for us, was teach us the word of God in its truth and non distorted form in all power and authority. teach us How to walk right, so we dont follow the path to Hell. to me some of the gog doctrine is mostly sounding like

" did God really say you need to repent?" ...naw, dont believe that, listen to these other 4 verses i plucked they explain fully and conclusively, that salvation is already something we can never change no matter what we do."

yet all around those verses and in the same epistles there are many more scriptures that give the actual context of those few sentances taken from a message. Like Jesus paul preached " God has forgiven you....Now you must not partake in the works of the flesh such as....and then gives a list of sinful actions and attitudes and thoughts. pauk is saying " Jesus doesnt condemn you, now go and sin no more"

to me, it is the most popular doctrine i see, to change or omit the gospel from the true Gospel, because false doctrines cannot exist when a person believes the truth God sent in the Words of Jesus Christ. that to me is the definition of a false basis for any doctrine when the person needs to explain why Jesus gospel isnt for you" its an echoe from Eden " did God really say that? naw, listen to me instead i have real insight."

belief and the faith of a child that is in Jesus , a child learns from the One who has proven they are legitimate. God gave us a teacher, had 4 records of His words written and preserved for us , and sent to the ends of the world, the same for all of us the same record of the same Gospel, for the Jew, and all other people equally, the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is the offer of salvation from God.


God bless you dear sister.