romans 7 death to the law, and the reason why it is necassary.

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Jun 1, 2016
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#81
Totally agree ! it's called ''being conformed to His image and likeness...
Traditional christian teaching is in serious error here when teaching that WE should not lift a finger. WE are supposed to walk WITH Jesus and DO everything He wants us to do !
To do and keep His Word IS to give Him Glory !
WE are supposed to walk WITH Jesus and DO everything He wants us to do !

amen through the gospel, we learn to want the things He wants us to do and forget the things He doesnt want us to do. but we first have to abide in His word and let the circumcision Happen. the circumcision of things Like Lust from the heart are accomplished when we accpt the gospel and keep it in us believing. those words are the Knowledge of Jesus Christ for freedom from bonds we cannot break because they are rooted where only Jesus can reach to remove them.

The Gospel is the great explorer of the Human Heart and Mind, its Knowledge is the great Healer of the sinful nature. the word of God truly is what this verse says

Hebrews 4:12 " For the word of God is quick, ( <Living) and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

when a believer believes Jesus and His Gospel, there is power to change the depths of our desires and wants, to truly save us from the heart so it is not us trying to keep up, but just living as who we are thanks to the Lord ! but we have to set our Hearts to Jesus and learn what He is teaching and what He is saying about eternal Life because He is the One who Gave the testament and then died and rose confirming His truth and the validity of His promise. the One who rose up from Death Like He said, also promised that we who keep His words will never see death. when we pass away in this world, we dont have to go face death and hell anymore Hallelujah !!!! but to be absent of the flesh as paul says is to be present with the Lord. we have to accept what He said and not Just the promises, because thats why the first covenant came to desolation when they omitted all of thier part, and began explaining God will never punish us were chosen....

 
Jun 1, 2016
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#82
I had a feeling that you were.looking at the word abide that way,abide only means that that's where you are living and not that you have to DO anything other than receive sustenance from the vine are other wise you would not be In the vine.

For we are HIS workmanship created IN CHRIST unto good works.

If the person Is In the vine then they are GOD's workmanship and they will just receive and display spiritual fruit.

That's why I have been saying give GOD All the credit.:)
ye i guess you know " dont do anything" Just say grace and say god gets the credit" only......theres no such doctrine in the scriptures. you dont have an issue with me, you have an issue with Jesus and the Gospel because He teaches to actually do what He says to actually do"

thanking God, is surely something all of us should do daily. but its not something i am to do, to look sanctified or anything, prayer and communication with God, is a private thing for the most part between the believer themself and God. i perceive that you see " Obey my commands and I will send you the holy spirit..." as " this person needs to Give God credit, instead of listening to the One God annointed to teach salvation. but because Jesus is the right One to believe in, and trust, i prefer to stake my salvation on the things that He said. because thats what He said to do :)


accepting this truth.....is not a lack of credit for God its called believing the truth


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."


there is much to learn, and much to do. the word grace, doesnt replace anything, it brings the power of God into us so that we can do the things were told to do, By the Lord we confess. God gets all the glory, saying " i give God credit" doesnt change what the Bible teaches us to do, and what it teaches us we cannot do. Give God credit for Knowing How to teach those Who believe in Him. and Give Jesus credit for Being the One and Only way truth and Life, the One sent from God, to the earth, for the purpose of preaching the truth of the Gospel. your issue is more with what Jesus taught, because he taught us to" give God credit" by accepting His Word, and not working to explain that even though Gods Word on every page explains something to believe and do, why that is foolishness, and " abide" means theres nothing to do. the branch has to bear fruit thats what the " branch" does. im sure you understand its a parable, and were not inanimate branches. the whole idea there is no grab onto Jesus word, to Keep that believe it, His words teach people " you must do these things" theres no reason to try to explain that away.

" theres nothing to do just give God credit" <<<<<<< thats foolishness in a biblical discussion forum most Here actually are looking to discuss the things the Bible says. God gets the credit for every breath and creature ever takes He is the Creator. every blessing and Gift. i think you are not grasping the gift given is that the holy spirit is given to the believer and they then follow the holy spirit into salvation. or they can follow sin into eternal Damnation. what a person does, matters completely.
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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#83
Agreed...we are encouraged and exhorted to be ''DOERS of the WORD'....
and it goes without saying we also obey ''in the Spirit....which leads us into doing !
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#84
ye i guess you know " dont do anything" Just say grace and say god gets the credit" only......theres no such doctrine in the scriptures. you dont have an issue with me, you have an issue with Jesus and the Gospel because He teaches to actually do what He says to actually do"

thanking God, is surely something all of us should do daily. but its not something i am to do, to look sanctified or anything, prayer and communication with God, is a private thing for the most part between the believer themself and God. i perceive that you see " Obey my commands and I will send you the holy spirit..." as " this person needs to Give God credit, instead of listening to the One God annointed to teach salvation. but because Jesus is the right One to believe in, and trust, i prefer to stake my salvation on the things that He said. because thats what He said to do :)


accepting this truth.....is not a lack of credit for God its called believing the truth


Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."


there is much to learn, and much to do. the word grace, doesnt replace anything, it brings the power of God into us so that we can do the things were told to do, By the Lord we confess. God gets all the glory, saying " i give God credit" doesnt change what the Bible teaches us to do, and what it teaches us we cannot do. Give God credit for Knowing How to teach those Who believe in Him. and Give Jesus credit for Being the One and Only way truth and Life, the One sent from God, to the earth, for the purpose of preaching the truth of the Gospel. your issue is more with what Jesus taught, because he taught us to" give God credit" by accepting His Word, and not working to explain that even though Gods Word on every page explains something to believe and do, why that is foolishness, and " abide" means theres nothing to do. the branch has to bear fruit thats what the " branch" does. im sure you understand its a parable, and were not inanimate branches. the whole idea there is no grab onto Jesus word, to Keep that believe it, His words teach people " you must do these things" theres no reason to try to explain that away.

" theres nothing to do just give God credit" <<<<<<< thats foolishness in a biblical discussion forum most Here actually are looking to discuss the things the Bible says. God gets the credit for every breath and creature ever takes He is the Creator. every blessing and Gift. i think you are not grasping the gift given is that the holy spirit is given to the believer and they then follow the holy spirit into salvation. or they can follow sin into eternal Damnation. what a person does, matters completely.
JESUS said be perfect as our Father In heaven Is perfect,since you are to DO what HE says,how do you do that?
 

laymen

Senior Member
Apr 6, 2014
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#85
romans 7 " Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.




7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. << not the problem >>> the problem 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
( so whats he mean?)


9For I was alive without the law once: ( genesis 1-2) but when the commandment came, ( genesis 2:17 ) sin revived, and I died. ( genesis 3 ) 10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, ( genseis 2:17) I found to be unto death.( genesis 3:19-24) 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, (genesis 3:1-6)and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good;( the law v12) that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

so....whats he saying? he really makes it plain all hes been explaining..... this is what happened to man because of the fruit of good and evil


14For we know that the law is spiritual: >>but I am carnal, sold under sin. <<

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.


16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. <<< 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.<<<

pauls conclusion and resulting perilous call and thanks to God


21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.( the knowledge of good and evil is in man now it causes a conflict adam "sold us" into this nature in eden) 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. "...

this is why we have to accept romans 6-8, and the many teachings about the law. and the gospel. if a sinner tries to come to God through the law, they will die, if they come to Jesus they will Live. 8 gives us the answer of course. 6 sets up ch 7, but there is much Here to really consider.

my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; ...5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, ( john 6:63) and not in the oldness of the letter. ..that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


2 corinthians 3 " 6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. ( john 6:63, john 6:68)

7But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; ( exodus 34) which glory was to be done away:( the glory of moses face faded after he came out from Gods presence) 8How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? ( john 3:34) 9For if the ministration o f condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. ( john 8:31-35)18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."


Moses or Jesus matters. one is mortal and ends in death, One is eternal and gives Life. they are not the same covenant.


God bless you !


Feel like your trying to hard.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#86
Agreed...we are encouraged and exhorted to be ''DOERS of the WORD'....
and it goes without saying we also obey ''in the Spirit....which leads us into doing !
amen, the thing that gives us the reason and enablement to do the things were commanded and taught, is the Word of Jesus, because thats where faith comes to us from. if we believe in Jesus in who He said He is, in who the entire Bible says He is, then we have to take His words saying " My words Hear them, they are different than anyone elses words, God sent me to bear witness to the truth, whoever keeps my word will never see death, if you really keep my words, you will Know the truth and the truthwill set you free, if you love me, keep my commands and I will ask the Father ans He will send the spirit of truth, the Holy ghost, to you, to keep in remembrance everything i have said to you.

there really is no way to seperate the thoughts of the Holy spirit, from the Gospel Jesus Christ was sent to preach to the jews and then send them to carry the same Gospel to the whole world. Jesus death and resurrection, is most certainly the foundation of christian belief, but it is not the House we Live in as so many use the crucifixion, to change the testators words. when clearly when the testator dies, His words for inheritance are unchangable by any court or testimony after His death. when Jesus died His Word became immutable.

hebrews 9 " And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. <<< this is explained next


16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is of force after men are dead: <<otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. "


the popular gog doctrine, explains How Jesus death, then ends His testament, rayher than dedicates it and makes it of force. Just like moses, Jesus spoke the entire gospel and then died, and dedicated all His words with His blood, as much greater is the blood of Jesus above goats and calves, is the new covenant better than the first. as much better is the promise of Jesus eternal life, than a life of 120 years with many offspring and crops yeilding fruit, much better is the word of Jesus than the word of any other. because it is He who is the testator. i wish christians would draw a line when people tell them, Jesus death changed His words.

like this says here, when a person makes a will and testament, once they die, it is then that thier words become binding and unchangeable regarding the inheritance, the promises He gave are according to the words that He spoke.


 
Jun 1, 2016
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#87
Feel like your trying to hard.
honestly is that something you should concern yourself with ? or should you look more to whether you are walking the way your Lord said to walk?


again though, God bless you wither way, I hope everyday brings a new blessing in your relationship with the Lord !
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#88
JESUS said be perfect as our Father In heaven Is perfect,since you are to DO what HE says,how do you do that?

what is my relationship with God, have to do with what the Bible says? its not a lets discuss my judgement of you" forum lol

were talking about what the Bible has to say and discussing it , correct? and Just so you understand Jesus didnt just say " be perfect" He actually is saying " be perfect in your mercy to others" hers the proof that context really matters rather than seeing one verse at a time.


heres what you are saying " 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." = jesus demands perfection....and Heres what Jesus is teaching....


mtthew 5 " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Luke 6 : But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thycoat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask themnot again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."


Jesus already understands were not perfect, thats why He came. he teaches 3 or four different times " forgive others when they sin against you, that your Father in Heaven will forgive you your sins."

he doesnt make that part of His doctrine because he expects perfection, his doctrine is be merciful to anyone who transgresses against you, because God has been merciful to you for all of your sins against others. like the unforgiving debtor. were bound to be imperfect, God says make sure you look at it like that when someone does something wrong against you also. Make sure you understand God didnt only forgive you, He forgave the guy who just offended you.

we do have to forgive, should be perfectly merciful toward others. God doesnt see perfection through the mosaic Law anymore. start the gospel with this priniciple the red is what Jesus taught us to do, and the Black is His promise based on that.

luke 6" Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."


take this understanding Jesus, the One was going to the cross and Knew it, taught those who believed in Him and He had forgiven
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
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#89
JESUS said be perfect as our Father In heaven Is perfect,since you are to DO what HE says,how do you do that?
We know that a 'learning process does not have INSTANT results with man who is very much still IMperfect...we need time to learn and we see that from other scriptures...and 'be perfect' should really read 'become perfect'.
What is a Disciple but a Student or Apprentice...he is not perfect from the start.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#90

what is my relationship with God, have to do with what the Bible says? its not a lets discuss my judgement of you" forum lol

were talking about what the Bible has to say and discussing it , correct? and Just so you understand Jesus didnt just say " be perfect" He actually is saying " be perfect in your mercy to others" hers the proof that context really matters rather than seeing one verse at a time.


heres what you are saying " 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." = jesus demands perfection....and Heres what Jesus is teaching....


mtthew 5 " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Luke 6 : But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thycoat also. 30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask themnot again. 31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. 32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. 36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."


Jesus already understands were not perfect, thats why He came. he teaches 3 or four different times " forgive others when they sin against you, that your Father in Heaven will forgive you your sins."

he doesnt make that part of His doctrine because he expects perfection, his doctrine is be merciful to anyone who transgresses against you, because God has been merciful to you for all of your sins against others. like the unforgiving debtor. were bound to be imperfect, God says make sure you look at it like that when someone does something wrong against you also. Make sure you understand God didnt only forgive you, He forgave the guy who just offended you.

we do have to forgive, should be perfectly merciful toward others. God doesnt see perfection through the mosaic Law anymore. start the gospel with this priniciple the red is what Jesus taught us to do, and the Black is His promise based on that.

luke 6" Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."


take this understanding Jesus, the One was going to the cross and Knew it, taught those who believed in Him and He had forgiven
Hopefully my friend you are not taking this personally because I don’t mean to harm you:)but I am trying to get you to see that you cannot do any of those things mentioned In those scriptures that you provided without GOD first doing a work In you.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#91
We know that a 'learning process does not have INSTANT results with man who is very much still IMperfect...we need time to learn and we see that from other scriptures...and 'be perfect' should really read 'become perfect'.
What is a Disciple but a Student or Apprentice...he is not perfect from the start.
Sounds like you are talking about renewing your mind AFTER salvation but before anyone would even have a desire to seek to purify themselves even as they are pure GOD would FIRST do a work In them and this work Is Immediate.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#92
Hopefully my friend you are not taking this personally because I don’t mean to harm you:)but I am trying to get you to see that you cannot do any of those things mentioned In those scriptures that you provided without GOD first doing a work In you.
no not at all, ive been hit with literral rocks , never personal, just is what it is.

my point is..lol Gpd has already done it all, part of hat He did, is teach us what to do :)

thw Holy spirit is what we have to receive, God doesnt work us like puppets, like Noah, he warns us and teaches us what to do. faith believes and does what He has said to believe and do. while you work to explain why i cant do anything Jesus says.....ill continue pressing forward doing the things Jesus says, because I undrstand, what Jesus did was fill me with His spirit so that I can do all things, because He gave me the strength.


im already past understanding im lost without God, i think most chirstians probably understand God gets all the credit, thats why were all trying to understand His word, because we Believe He is Who He says. none of this changes the fact that we have to do what God has taught us to do in Jesus Christ and The Gospel. the reason people think " no one can do it" is because people refuse to accept it as even being the gospel. so many try to re invent salvation, re invent a different Gospel, but the author of salvation, sent His gospel to the world after His resurrection.

the things that gives us the power to do what were supposed to, is to believe the testimony of Jesus, His word. Thats where Grace is found. its just what it is friend, om not saying you need to believe me, im saying christians need to go to the gospel and learn Jesus version of salvation rather than spending thier effort explaining why something changed. the idea of " christ in us" is the promise ot John 14: 15-26, fulfilled at pentocaust and filfilled each time a person is baptized into christs death for the remission of sin, and by His word which leads us to receiving the Holy Ghost.

theres no other way but the word of the testator.


when a man has 3 Kids, and the man is wealthy He makes a will before His death. all of the terms he sets for His possessions are written down, made Known in the presence of a legal court officer. the will and testament, is then placed somewhere in a safe or drawer. the words in the will are binding and cant be adjusted once the person dies. when Jesus died, every thing he taught in the Gospel, then is binding and legal and cannot be changed by anyone after the day of His death.


in the case of a will. lets say the man had said in the will. to my youngest son, i leave 25000 dollars, to be given Him based on these terms : He must show proof that He has stopped using heroine, He must treat His family properly and take care of His child. when he has done this, the 25000 dollars is to be given to Him. if He does not meet this term, the 25000 dollars is to be given to a childrens hospital as a donation."


even if the young son, doesnt like that and goes and gets the best lawyer on earth, you cannot alter the will and testament of the testator. the terms are His, because the inheritance is His to give. the son may think in His mind " my dad didnt love me because he expects me to stop using heroine, and treat people right"

but it doesnt change the will because the recipient of the inheritance doesnt want the terms set forth. if the testator is of sound mind and there are witnesses to Him making this will and signing it. No law on earth can then change it. that is what the Gospel is, the testament of Jesus Christ.


My only point, is we have to see what He himself said of salvation to understand it. if we try to find a different way to inherit eternal Life, then we would be the person trying to invite ourselves to the wedding feast, who gets bound and thrown out by the King who gave the invite, because we had the wrong garments on.

The Only way is Jesus way. everything else is helping people understand it
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#93
Sounds like you are talking about renewing your mind AFTER salvation but before anyone would even have a desire to seek to purify themselves even as they are pure GOD would FIRST do a work In them and this work Is Immediate.
Sounds like you are talking about renewing your mind AFTER salvation <<<

"salvation" is an offer, a promise to accept and Believe. its something we live in Hope for, the promise of salvation. it is not something God imposes on us, we have to turn away from Our will, and submit to His will. He is not ever going to change us while our will is set to remain the same doing the same things.

a gift you might offer to someone and they dont want it, because accepting the gift means they have to let go of thier treasures. we learn what e have to do through Jesus and the gospel, the message theres nothing to do, God will do it for you, then omits everything He taught His disciples to do which is as much the gospel as any aspect of it.

Gotta take His word, together with His death and resurrection both the grace and the truth. that works together " i do not condemn you, now you go and sin no more"

grace plus instruction.

titus 2 "
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."


Grace came when Jesus began His ministry. " your sins have been forgiven, now go and leave your life of sin or something worse may happen"

you are forgiven , Now forgive those who trespass against you...its always a teaching and a promise, a teaching and a promise. they cant be seperated. many fear the gospel but its full of everything we need, cmfort, assurance, gentlenmess, Gods patience toward us, His sacrifice of true Love for us, His power and authority raising from the dead, His assumption into Heaven. it has all of Jesus wisdom and parables things hidden from the beginning.

the answers to the issue in our hearts and Minds. Grace if it is distorted will teach one to not believe Jesus because He teaches His disciples what to do, if Grace then is interpreted as " nothing for you to do" it forces a conflist in the design of Grace and truth , grace and teaching working together to heal the mind and cleanse the heart of sin.

grace works with Gods Word, it doesnt alter it. the gospel will forever be the gospel.




 
Jun 1, 2016
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#94
Hopefully my friend you are not taking this personally because I don’t mean to harm you:)but I am trying to get you to see that you cannot do any of those things mentioned In those scriptures that you provided without GOD first doing a work In you.
Hopefully my friend you are not taking this personally"


not at all, i actually appreciate the discussion. i think that a big issue in forum like this. is a person may type something, and the tone of the person is not perceived. in person a person might be smiling and being friendly and saying the same things, whereas on line, you dont get to know the person typing it presonally, or do you get to observe the tone of what they are saying. i think it causes alot of escaltaion from observing in my time here. people say things differently because were all so diverse in our speech. sometimes two points only seem to oppose, when they are different aspects, of the same thing.


other times two points are completely opposite, it shouldnt create enemies, but an understanding that there is a reconciliation between things that seem to oppose each other in the scriptures. thers always a chain to connect things in order and that is edifying. when we have 2 differing points, if we could not always perceive agression or offence in the other, oft times we may be able to mutaully benifit because not one of us alone has the answers, or all the right aspect of views of the whole enchilada, the big picture God has laid out before us.

even in disagreements i try to look for benifit, and ever hold offense because ofense is not only something we give toward others , its something we have to accpet or take from others. we can choose to understand offense is a tool of the enemy to divide people who while may have differing understandings, and diviwsion is a way to keep them from coming together to a reconciled fuller undrstanding of the Knowledge of God