Romans 8 anyone?

[FlSnookman7]

Sooo... I do not know the best way to go about this so I thought I would post Romans 8 in full. I've seen in the past people do a verse by verse exegesis (I had to google that word) and I have seen others give their opinion as a whole. Either one or another way would work fine, let's just agree to disagree in the beginning and remember that we are to treat each other with love....

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[FlSnookman7]

I will start with what I see as the only qualification to being free from condemnation by walking in the Spirit...

Romans 8:9-10
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

This tells me that once saved and the Spirit of God dwells in me, I am made alive and righteous by God's doing, not my own.

 

[Ralph-]

Notice that the absence of condemnation, and the fulfillment of the law, comes from walking after the Spirit, not from simply having the Spirit:


"who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."-vs.1 & 4


But this should be no surprise since it is the obedience of compassion and concern for others welfare which fulfills the law (Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:14).



Also notice that contrary to popular teaching, those who are not saved can not please God.


"the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."-vs.7-8


This teaching that obedient people are really just self righteous workers working there way to heaven instead of trusting Christ's righteousness to get to heaven is very misguided. Paul says people who do not have the Spirit CANNOT please God and do what he commands. Unsaved, self righteous people are not noted for their obedience but rather for their disobedience-their hypocrisy. Disobedience ultimately is the sign you do not have the Spirit.

 

[Ralph-]

Notice that the absence of condemnation, and the fulfillment of the law, comes from walking after the Spirit, not from simply having the Spirit:


"who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."-vs.1 & 4

(Completing my thought)

This should not be confused with possessing the righteousness of God. That comes solely through faith and trust in the forgiveness of God. But release from condemnation and the fulfilling of the law come from walking according to the Spirit.

 

[Lighthearted]

This teaching that obedient people are really just self righteous workers working there way to heaven instead of trusting Christ's righteousness to get to heaven is very misguided.

cant forget that little inherited blood curse

 

[FlSnookman7]

Notice that the absence of condemnation, and the fulfillment of the law, comes from walking after the Spirit, not from simply having the Spirit:


"who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."-vs.1 & 4


But this should be no surprise since it is the obedience of compassion and concern for others welfare which fulfills the law (Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:14).



Also notice that contrary to popular teaching, those who are not saved can not please God.


"the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."-vs.7-8


This teaching that obedient people are really just self righteous workers working there way to heaven instead of trusting Christ's righteousness to get to heaven is very misguided. Paul says people who do not have the Spirit CANNOT please God and do what he commands. Unsaved, self righteous people are not noted for their obedience but rather for their disobedience-their hypocrisy. Disobedience ultimately is the sign you do not have the Spirit.

Yes and the Word assures us it is the fact of God dwelling in us that keeps us in the Spirit.

 

[Ralph-]

Yes and the Word assures us it is the fact of God dwelling in us that keeps us in the Spirit.

God dwelling in you IS the Spirit within you.


God hasn't robbed us of our free will. We are able to quench the Spirit within (1 Thessalonians 5:19). Every honest Christian knows this. There are times we respond to the impulse of the Spirit within and do the right thing, and there are times we ignore the impulse of the Spirit within and do not do the right thing. Paul said it is when we walk by the Spirit that we have no condemnation, and have fulfilled the law. Simply possessing the Spirit does not remove condemnation nor fulfill the law. You have to obey the Spirit to have no guilt of condemnation and to fulfill the law.

 

[FlSnookman7]

God dwelling in you IS the Spirit within you.


God hasn't robbed us of our free will. We are able to quench the Spirit within (1 Thessalonians 5:19). Every honest Christian knows this. There are times we respond to the impulse of the Spirit within and do the right thing, and there are times we ignore the impulse of the Spirit within and do not do the right thing. Paul said it is when we walk by the Spirit that we have no condemnation, and have fulfilled the law. Simply possessing the Spirit does not remove condemnation nor fulfill the law. You have to obey the Spirit to have no guilt of condemnation and to fulfill the law.

One person disagreeing with another person has no bearing on either's honesty.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I always see something new every time I read romans 8! Today was no exception.

Where it says the law was weak because of the flesh.
The law was weak...
What do you guys make of that?

 

[FlSnookman7]

I always see something new every time I read romans 8! Today was no exception.

Where it says the law was weak because of the flesh.
The law was weak...
What do you guys make of that?

I think the Word is saying that Jesus and Jesus alone saves us, no other way.

 

[JaumeJ]

wwJd??????

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think the Word is saying that Jesus and Jesus alone saves us, no other way.

So...you see it like...the law is weak to save...?

I guess I'm entranced by it being the FLESH that makes the law weak.
It isn't that the law is weak because we know the law is spiritual and good as one verse says.
How exactly does the flesh make weak what is spiritual and good?

 

[Ariel82]

the flesh doesn't make the law weak..

the law is weak because the flesh can't keep it therefore can't use it to be saved.

the law is the Old covenant established by Moses on Mount Sinai and places the world in bondage of the Law of Sin and Death....do not eat of the tree or you shall die.

the law of the Spirit or the New covenant is sealed by the blood of the Lamb and is by FAITH in Jesus and not by works of men.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I got my answer. Or at least a piece of it.

I don't know how to bring that post here though because I'm computer challenged...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I managed to get the post here! It was in reading one of those Saturday Sabbath threads (blech!) that it occurred to me...


Well, I got my answer from the question I asked in another thread!
My question was regarding romans 8.
The law is weak BECAUSE OF the flesh, it says.
So I asked, how exactly does what we know is spiritual and good become or be made weak because of flesh?

My flesh will die one day, because of sin. Its a condemned building.
Who demands that a condemned building be gotten up to code? It is condemned, to be torn down. Why rush about madly, trying to get up to code what will be destroyed?

So the law is spiritual. It is not FOR getting the building up to code. The building is already to be torn down.

Am I making sense to anyone?​

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I managed to get the post here! It was in reading one of those Saturday Sabbath threads (blech!) that it occurred to me...


Well, I got my answer from the question I asked in another thread!
My question was regarding romans 8.
The law is weak BECAUSE OF the flesh, it says.
So I asked, how exactly does what we know is spiritual and good become or be made weak because of flesh?

My flesh will die one day, because of sin. Its a condemned building.
Who demands that a condemned building be gotten up to code? It is condemned, to be torn down. Why rush about madly, trying to get up to code what will be destroyed?

So the law is spiritual. It is not FOR getting the building up to code. The building is already to be torn down.

Am I making sense to anyone?​

And so in that Saturday Sabbath thread, it was being pushed that the law about Sabbath rest is to be kept by hauling my condemned building to another spot once a week, when the law is not FOR a condemned and about to be torn down building.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Sooo... I do not know the best way to go about this so I thought I would post Romans 8 in full. I've seen in the past people do a verse by verse exegesis (I had to google that word) and I have seen others give their opinion as a whole. Either one or another way would work fine, let's just agree to disagree in the beginning and remember that we are to treat each other with love....

Romans 8

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Verses 20 and 21 are odd here. They say creature instead of creation...Is it a misprint or does your translation actually say that?

 

[oldhermit]

Here are verses 1-17. If anyone is interested in the remaining points of the chapter, I will be happy to post them, otherwise, I will not bother.

By Oldhermit

I. Six Principles of Christian Ontology, 1-17
These six principles give definition to a new and different existence for those who are in Christ Jesus. These six principles tell us what it is to be a Christian. With these principles, Paul reveals a bi-cameral transformation. There is the side of a person's transformation that is accomplished by the Lord and then there is the side of the transformation that falls to us to maintain. We are charged with the task of correcting and maintaining our own behavior. The Lord will not do this for us.

These revealed principles must be understood as defining elements of Christian life. Without these elements, there is no Christian life. Without these elements, one has no right to claim to be a Christian. Bear in mind, Paul is talking to Jews who had been freed from the force of the Law of Moses by grace but, the principles themselves are universal and apply to all who wear the name of Christ.
A. The First principle of Christian ontology says that this new existence is a state of reprieve. “Therefore there is now no condemnation.” v. 1.
This existence is ours only by the grace of God. Divine favor has been bestowed on us in spite of our past. God's view of us, his attitude toward us, his judgment against has now been fixed in our favor. This is the declaration of the Lord. This is his part. In his mind, condemnation has been removed. There is a total dismissal of all charges against us. In the mind of God, what we once were, we are no longer. What were we before? Enemies of God, lost, alienated from Christ, disobedient, children of wrath, without hope, and without God in the world, Ephesians 2.

For the Jew under the Law, the decree of no condemnation could never have been given. Under the Law, there was a constant remembrance of sin made year after year. In Christ, there is no remembrance of sin, and judgment has been rendered in our favor. Punishment has been deferred and Christ was the scapegoat for our punishment.

B. The Second principle of Christian ontology says that life in Christ is freedom from the law of sin and death, 2-4.
“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”

The weakness of the Law was the human flesh. The weakness of the Law was not the Law itself. There was no deficiency in the Law. The weakness was the inability of man to keep the law of God perfectly. It was the inability of man to resist sin perfectly. This is Paul's irreducible dilemma of chapter seven.

1. The Law was not able to free the Jew from condemnation.
The sacrificial system, with all its complexities, all its regulations, all its strict requirements of observation could not free the worshiper from a single sin. All of the combined blood shed upon the altar over a course of some 1500 years from Aaron to Caiaphas could do nothing to alter the spiritual status of those under the Law. This new Christian ontology was unattainable under that system. This was not a failure of the Law, it was simply not the function of the Law.
2. The strength of the Spirit of life was the offering of Christ. This furnished everything that was lacking in man's failure to keep the Law of God. What we could not do, Christ did for us. What did he do? He kept the Law of God perfectly in the flesh, and… he resisted sin perfectly in the flesh. Therefore, the Law stands as having been fulfilled. The Law can no longer bear witness against the offender.
3. Sin was condemned in HIS flesh so that the requirements of the Law could be fulfilled in us but, this deferment of condemnation is conditional upon two points.

* It can only be supplied to those who share in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. For those who do not share in this event, through baptism as Paul explains in chapter six, condemnation remains.
* Fulfillment of the Law in us is also conditional upon individual conduct – It is only for those, “who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” This is our part.
Grace does not cancel out obligation, quite the contrary. It makes us all the more obligated to the will of God. The word 'walk' implies life style. This is a lifestyle of behavior that conforms to the Spirit rather than to the flesh.

C. The Third principle of Christian ontology says that a redirected, refocused mind is critical to this new existence, 5-8.
"For those who are (ὄντες – for those who exist) according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are (exist) in the flesh cannot please God.

”​

1. The old mind was set on things of the flesh. This represents a dedication, a fixation, a fanatical obsession with temporal, carnal pursuits. This is a life devoted to self, concerned only with serving the needs of the body. It is a devotion to satisfy personal goals, desires, or ambitious interests such as carrier, education, comfort, pleasures, even sinful obsessions. That existence, that

ὄντες​

, that state of being, was concerned only with, “What I want out of life, what will make me happy, what will make me successful, what will give me a sense of living a fulfilled life.”

The simple fact is that if you want those things, you can have them. They are out there for the taking. But in the taking, be careful that you do not lose yourself. Very often, that is the price of such pursuits.

The fleshly mind is a mind that is hostile toward God. For such a mind, not only is there no subordination to the law of God, there is a complete inability for such person to submit to the law of God. It is impossible for the fleshly mind to think in terms of spiritual goals or concerns. For that to happen, the mind must first be confronted by the word of God and a conscious decision must then be made to allow the word of God to influence and entrain (reshape) the mind. This is the work of the Holy Spirit.
2. The new mind must be set on things of the Spirit.
This requires a refocusing of the mind. This demands a dedication of service, a fixation, a fanatical obsession with things that are of eternal value. This is a God-centered obsession that rededicates everything in our lives to the will of God. This changes how we view our personal goals, desires, and interests. This changes how we see our carriers, our educational pursuits, our concern for pleasures, our comfortable existence, and especially our sinful obsessions.

My sole concern in life can no longer be fixated on how to please myself. How I manage my life must now take on a whole new focus. How can I manage my family, my money, my assets, my skills, my time, so that I can please God in all of these things. All other concerns are now rendered unimportant.
D. The Fourth principle of Christian ontology says that new life can only exist on the spiritual plane, 9-11.
“However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”

1. The presence of the Spirit of God in the Christian is actual, real, personal, and intimate. The Spirit of God in the Christian is the single verifying agent of our relationship with God. It is the only thing that gives conformation to that ontology.

No matter what claims one may make about being a Christian, if he does not have the Spirit of God, he simply does not belong to God. He has no life in Christ. The world is full of the walking dead who claim to be Christian but have no association with Christ whatsoever. All they have is an emotional attachment to who they think Jesus is and what they think Christianity is.

Emotions or feelings, no matter how strong, are not a metric for defining Christian ontology. True Christian ontology is not determined by emotions, nor is it defined by the world. It is determined by the presence of these six principles.
2. A good moral lifestyle is not proof of a Christian existence.
Although moral behavior is indispensable to a Christian ontology, it is not in itself proof of it. Even an atheist can live a good moral life but, this does not make him a Christian. By the same token, one who is a Christian who lives a worldly life style with no regard for the guidance of the Spirit cannot lay claim to these six principles of Christian existence. Scripture says there are severe consequences for such a person. In fact, the Hebrew writer tells us that he is worse off than the moral atheist. He would have been better off never having known the way of righteousness.
3. The Spirit “gives life to your mortal bodies.”
There are two issues here.

a. There is the promise of the resurrection of our bodies. The eventual resurrection of our bodies is just as certain, just as sure as the reality of resurrection of the Lord himself.
b. This is also an issue of usefulness where the Lord himself lays claim to our earthly bodies. The Spirit of God in us is the only factor that turns our weak, frail, useless, decaying, sinful, mortal bodies into a productive agent for God in this world.

In the final analysis, all other human accomplishments mean nothing. No matter how creative, how great, how noble, how impressive, how beautiful, how magnificent, no matter how they may stir the hearts of men, all human accomplishments will all someday be consumed by fire. The only relevant contribution that a man can make in this life are those things he has accomplished for the Lord. Nothing else will matter.

E. The Fifth principle of Christian ontology says that a change of personal life is obligatory. A change of life is non-negotiable for if you want to be a Christian, 12-13.
“So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh to live according to the flesh, for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”

This is a demand for a change of allegiance. We are no longer obligated to the flesh. That obligation is over. We have already been down that path and the only place that path led to was death. “If you are living according to the flesh, you must die.” This edict from the Lord is absolute. Allegiance to the flesh is death. This sentence cannot and will not be overturned by any human resistance or appeal. God cannot be bargained with on this. If you live according to the flesh, there is only one outcome.

Living by the Spirit means we are personally and actively engaged in “putting to death the deeds of the body.” This is not the Lord's part, this is our part. The Lord promised to remove our sins but he did not promise to change our behavior for us. This responsibility falls to us. The Spirit will render whatever help we may require in this effort, in fact as Paul says, we cannot do this without him; but the obligation is ours none-the-less.

This is not an easy thing to do. It is tough to leave behind people, perhaps even family members, places, activities, influences, and behaviors that have become old habits for us. There has to be that separation between the old life and our new life and that separation is measured by a change in our behavior. If we are willing to do this, the Lord promises us, “you will live.” And this is the Lord's part. He is the one who gives life to our useless bodies.

F. The Sixth principle of Christian ontology says that the privilege of sonship belongs only to those who are led by the Spirit of God, 14-17.

“​

For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, 'Abba! Father!' The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.”
What are the privileges of sonship?

1. Name change – “sons of God.” This is a name that scripture seems to reserve exclusively for the people of God.

a. We have been liberated from slavery to adoption.
b. We have the very great privilege of addressing the God of creation as “Father.”
A lot of people, including some scholars, such as the late famed Joachim Jeremias, attempt to make a huge issue of the Aramaic word Αββα here. Jeremias even went so far as to suggest that Αββα is some sort of diminutive alternative for “Father,” which would make it equivalent to the term 'daddy,' 'papa,' or some other diminutive expression. This idea is however largely rejected by most scholars, and rightly so.

In order to clear up any misconceptions about what Αββα means and how it should be understood, let us look at the grammar of the address. This word is only used three times in the New Testament and always in the same context.

* Jesus’ prayer in the garden in Mark 14:36, καὶ ἔλεγεν Αββα ὁ πατήρ πάντα δυνατά σοι παρένεγκε τὸ ποτήριον ἀπ᾽ ἐμοῦ τοῦτο ἀλλ᾽ οὐ τί ἐγὼ θέλω ἀλλὰ τί σύ.
* Galatians 4:6, Ὅτι δέ ἐστε υἱοί ἐξαπέστειλεν ὁ θεὸς τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ εἰς τὰς καρδίας ὑμῶν, κρᾶζον Αββα ὁ πατήρ.
* Romans 8:15, Οὐ γὰρ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα δουλείας πάλιν εἰς φόβον ἀλλ᾽ ἐλάβετε πνεῦμα υἱοθεσίας ἐν ᾧ κράζομεν Αββα ὁ πατήρ.

The construction of Αββα ὁ πατήρ is the same in each text. Although ὁ πατήρ is nominative in its spelling it is used as a vocative of address. This is not at all uncommon in Greek grammar. There are many examples of this in the New Testament. One such example would be Hebrews 1:8-9 where the Father address the Son as ὁ Θεός. Θεός is nominative spelling but it is used as a vocative of address.

In each of the thee places where Αββα is used, the meaning of the word is clearly set forth by the user. Both Jesus and Paul ascribe the word 'Father' as the definition and equivalent of Αββα. Αββα is not offered as a proper name for the Father as some have suggested because of the use of the definite article with Θεός. It is simply an address – Father. This is certainly not a diminutive form of address. There are Greek diminutive forms of father (παππας, τατα, τέττα, and perhaps even πατρίδιον), but none of these are used in connection with Αββα in any of these three passages.

There is really nothing spectacular about the word itself. Both Jesus and Paul provide the meaning of the word as 'Father'. The point Paul is making both here and in Galatians 4 is that being able to address God as ‘Father' is a profound privilege. This is a big deal. This is what separates the son from the mere servant. As adopted sons, we are privileged now to address God as “Father,” not merely collectively as was the Jewish custom, but individually which was inconceivable to Jewish thinking. This is why the Jews attempted to stone Jesus for blasphemy in John 5:18 when he called God his Father. “For this reason, therefore, the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” Paul says our freedom to address God as “Father” is a privilege we now enjoy that we did not previously have.
2. We have the privilege of family status because we are now “children of God.” This grants to us all the rights and privileges that come with family membership, including the right of heirship.
3. We have the privilege of heirship – “heirs of God and fellow-heirs with Christ.”

This actually reflects first-born privilege. We have a first-born share of the inheritance. We share in everything Jesus inherited from the Father. This inheritance is of course something that will not be fully realized in this life.

a. 1Peter 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great, mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead; to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.” We are privileged to partake of his glory “...if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.”
b. In Revelation 21:7 Jesus says, “He who overcomes will inherit these things, (all of the blessings previously mentioned in chapters 20 and 21) and I will be his God and he will be My son.” This is full realization of the promise that God made to Abraham way back in Genesis 15.

4. In the end, we will one day be privileged to sit on the very throne of God.
Revelation 3:21, “He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” This verse represents the magnitude of our inheritance. When one is given the throne itself, this means that he is in possession of all that is governed by that position. If you have the throne, what will not have?
5. We also share in the privilege of suffering – “if indeed we suffer with Him.”
This certainly requires a different way of viewing the experience of suffering. For the Christian, suffering is no longer something that must simply be endured. Now, there is meaning in suffering. The world sees no meaning in such experiences and they certainly do not regard them as privilege.

For the Christian, suffering is a privileged way of identifying with the Lord. As Paul expressed it in Colossians 1:24, “I want to fill up in my flesh that which is lacking in the sufferings of Christ.” In other words, “I want more of it.” Paul was not a masochist. He did not enjoy suffering, but his attitude about suffering was that, “If that identifies me more closely with my Lord, then bring it on.”

There is reward at the end of our suffering that the world cannot take from us, not even in death. This is why Paul can say in verse 18, “Our present sufferings are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.”

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I managed to get the post here! It was in reading one of those Saturday Sabbath threads (blech!) that it occurred to me...


Well, I got my answer from the question I asked in another thread!
My question was regarding romans 8.
The law is weak BECAUSE OF the flesh, it says.
So I asked, how exactly does what we know is spiritual and good become or be made weak because of flesh?

My flesh will die one day, because of sin. Its a condemned building.
Who demands that a condemned building be gotten up to code? It is condemned, to be torn down. Why rush about madly, trying to get up to code what will be destroyed?

So the law is spiritual. It is not FOR getting the building up to code. The building is already to be torn down.

Am I making sense to anyone?​

Since Jesus' flesh wasn't destroyed (decayed) nor will those who will not see death but meet the Lord in the air when He returns, then that throws your 'flesh=physical body=evil' Gnostic theory out the window.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Romans covers the whole message of the Bible. If you picture the whole Bible as a golden ring then Romans would be the solitaire large center diamond in the ring with Ch 8 being the bright white lights and rainbow sparkles scintillating off from that diamond.