E
Is romans 9 really hard, can it be understood if proper hermeneutics are used, or is it something we should leave to high ranking spiritual leaders, as some may think..
Lets take a look,
9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
context. Isreal
1. they have been given the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the law, the service of God and the promises
2. Christ came through them
Did God make a mistake? At what?
It is important to know these historical facts which was going on at this time. (In hermeneutics this is called historical perspective)
1. many in Israel at the time, were saying they were in by their heritage, and they were chosen because of the righteousness of their fathers.
2. some saying yes, Grace is awesome, but we have to add these laws to grace, or else it will not work.
3. many people had to have questioned Gods choosing of Israel. They rejected him, and now he was rejecting them. Did God make a mistake in chosing them?
paul is going to spend the next three chapters answering these questions. Here in chapter 9 he speaks of his sovereign choosing and how he did it, and why.
Context is this
Gods choosing of Isreal
God promises given to Abraham.
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
First off. Pauls deals with those who think being natural Children of Abraham get an automatic in. Paul makes it clear. It s through the promised seed that one is given the promise. As God said, in you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. In this promise, through Christ (the seed of the woman) all mankind are offered the promise of eternal life. National election does not get you an automatic in.
9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
here paul is refuting the notion that was common among the jews at this time. That Isreal was chosen because of the righteousness of their forefathers. Paul
makes it clear. The nation was chosen before either of the children had done anything, it was not because of their righteousness, for they had not done righteous or evil yet. it was based on his soverign choice. that his election might stand based on HIM, and not on mankind or any works of mankind.
12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”
here paul starts to quote some OT passages. We should not just look at them, and try to interpret what Paul means. but we should do what every person should do. Go back to the OT passage in question to see what it is that paul is saying, for the context of the OT passage must be taken in what Paul is saying, Since he is quoting another author. we must take what the origional author said into context. No man would quote another author. and take him out of context. for this would be grave error.
Spoken to rebecca in 2000 BC Gen 5: 23 - 23 And the Lord said to her: “Two nations are in your womb, Two peoples shall be separated from your body; One people shall be stronger than the other, And the older shall serve the younger.”
As we can see. Using context of what Paul was saying, which any good bible scholar would do, we see God was not speaking of the children, but of the nations in the womb. God told Rebecca, Two nations (Isreal and Edom) are in your womb. One shall serve the other, and be stronger.
Another fact we know by going to the OT is the fact that Jacob the person, never served esau the child. if anything, it was jacob who served esau. In fact he took the birthright from esau, He ran scared from esau, and later he called esau his lord. and declared he was esau's servant.
gen 32: 3 Then Jacob sent messengers before him to Esau his brother in the land of Seir, the country of Edom. 4 And he commanded them, saying, “Speak thus to my lord Esau, ‘Thus your servant Jacob says:
so for those who state he is talking about the kids here. Scripture does not allow this. For neither of the actual kids did what paul claimed they did. It was the nation of jacob (isreal) who ruled over Esau (Edom) and it was edom who served isreal.
13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Spoken to malachi approximately 400 BC, 1600 years after the first OT passage quoted by paul
mal 1 - 2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord.“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord.“Yet Jacob I have loved; 3 But Esau I have hated,
Again, proves Paul is talking about nations here and not children. Both Jacob and Esau had been long since dead before this was spoken to Malachi, And the context of the passage is that God loves isreal, but did hated Edom.
Now we turn to the greek. The word translated hate here in the hebrew could mean hate, yes, But was also used in a different way. It can also mean love less.
A nt example of Christ using this form, is when he told us to love our parent, our wives and children. But later says if we HAT them, we can not be with God.
God did not literally say hate them, for he would be contradicting himself. he meant love less than him. If we love anyone more than God, we will not be able to experience the kingdom as we are intended to. Paul is stating a fact. In chosing Isreal. god had a special relationship to them. But not because they were good (as already established) but because he chose them as his nation to do all paul stated in the first 5 verses of romans 11. see the major issue here? one group has God hating a child and condemning him to hell before he is even born. One group has God chosing a nation with whom the savior will come from, and still loving them, even though they did not deserve it. yet fulfilling his promise, not only to them, but us.
Lets take a look,
9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
context. Isreal
1. they have been given the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the law, the service of God and the promises
2. Christ came through them
Did God make a mistake? At what?
It is important to know these historical facts which was going on at this time. (In hermeneutics this is called historical perspective)
1. many in Israel at the time, were saying they were in by their heritage, and they were chosen because of the righteousness of their fathers.
2. some saying yes, Grace is awesome, but we have to add these laws to grace, or else it will not work.
3. many people had to have questioned Gods choosing of Israel. They rejected him, and now he was rejecting them. Did God make a mistake in chosing them?
paul is going to spend the next three chapters answering these questions. Here in chapter 9 he speaks of his sovereign choosing and how he did it, and why.
Context is this
Gods choosing of Isreal
God promises given to Abraham.
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
First off. Pauls deals with those who think being natural Children of Abraham get an automatic in. Paul makes it clear. It s through the promised seed that one is given the promise. As God said, in you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed. In this promise, through Christ (the seed of the woman) all mankind are offered the promise of eternal life. National election does not get you an automatic in.
9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
here paul is refuting the notion that was common among the jews at this time. That Isreal was chosen because of the righteousness of their forefathers. Paul
makes it clear. The nation was chosen before either of the children had done anything, it was not because of their righteousness, for they had not done righteous or evil yet. it was based on his soverign choice. that his election might stand based on HIM, and not on mankind or any works of mankind.
12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”
here paul starts to quote some OT passages. We should not just look at them, and try to interpret what Paul means. but we should do what every person should do. Go back to the OT passage in question to see what it is that paul is saying, for the context of the OT passage must be taken in what Paul is saying, Since he is quoting another author. we must take what the origional author said into context. No man would quote another author. and take him out of context. for this would be grave error.
Spoken to rebecca in 2000 BC Gen 5: 23 - 23 And the Lord said to her: “Two nations are in your womb, Two peoples shall be separated from your body; One people shall be stronger than the other, And the older shall serve the younger.”
As we can see. Using context of what Paul was saying, which any good bible scholar would do, we see God was not speaking of the children, but of the nations in the womb. God told Rebecca, Two nations (Isreal and Edom) are in your womb. One shall serve the other, and be stronger.
Another fact we know by going to the OT is the fact that Jacob the person, never served esau the child. if anything, it was jacob who served esau. In fact he took the birthright from esau, He ran scared from esau, and later he called esau his lord. and declared he was esau's servant.
gen 32: 3 Then Jacob sent messengers before him to Esau his brother in the land of Seir, the country of Edom. 4 And he commanded them, saying, “Speak thus to my lord Esau, ‘Thus your servant Jacob says:
so for those who state he is talking about the kids here. Scripture does not allow this. For neither of the actual kids did what paul claimed they did. It was the nation of jacob (isreal) who ruled over Esau (Edom) and it was edom who served isreal.
13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
Spoken to malachi approximately 400 BC, 1600 years after the first OT passage quoted by paul
mal 1 - 2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord.“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” Says the Lord.“Yet Jacob I have loved; 3 But Esau I have hated,
Again, proves Paul is talking about nations here and not children. Both Jacob and Esau had been long since dead before this was spoken to Malachi, And the context of the passage is that God loves isreal, but did hated Edom.
Now we turn to the greek. The word translated hate here in the hebrew could mean hate, yes, But was also used in a different way. It can also mean love less.
A nt example of Christ using this form, is when he told us to love our parent, our wives and children. But later says if we HAT them, we can not be with God.
God did not literally say hate them, for he would be contradicting himself. he meant love less than him. If we love anyone more than God, we will not be able to experience the kingdom as we are intended to. Paul is stating a fact. In chosing Isreal. god had a special relationship to them. But not because they were good (as already established) but because he chose them as his nation to do all paul stated in the first 5 verses of romans 11. see the major issue here? one group has God hating a child and condemning him to hell before he is even born. One group has God chosing a nation with whom the savior will come from, and still loving them, even though they did not deserve it. yet fulfilling his promise, not only to them, but us.
