salvation for those who have never heard the word?

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stevenwyatt

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#1
#1
I am on a quest to find where the word answers the question: What about those who have never heard the message of salvation? I know there are people out there in the forests, mountains, valleys, ect. who have never heard of Jesus. However, where in the bible are we guaranteed to receive the message and opportunity of salvation?
 
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Definition_Christ

Guest
#2
#2
Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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Jan 8, 2009
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They'll be judged according to the good or bad that they have done.

Sorry, but the Yeti man is probably going to hell.
 
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Cako53

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#4
#4
MahogonySnail said:
They'll be judged according to the good or bad that they have done.

Sorry, but the Yeti man is probably going to hell.
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Where does it say this. Jesus himself says that the only way to heaven is through him, he is the truth the way and the light. We will never be good enough to enter heaven on our own accord. So where in the bibnle does it say they will be judges on their acts?
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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Jan 8, 2009
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Where does it say this. Jesus himself says that the only way to heaven is through him, he is the truth the way and the light. We will never be good enough to enter heaven on our own accord. So where in the bibnle does it say they will be judges on their acts?
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See Revelations, for starters. Judgement day, books are opened, people are judged by their good or bad. Do they even teach about the judgement at your church? It wouldnt surprise me if they don't, because I've never heard a sermon on it really.
 
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Cako53

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#6
#6
MahogonySnail said:
See Revelations, for starters. Judgement day, books are opened, people are judged by their good or bad. Do they even teach about the judgement at your church? It wouldnt surprise me if they don't, because I've never heard a sermon on it really.
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Okay I do see what you are saying Revelation 20:12, but are you saying that we can enter heaven by our deeds? Cause I'm pretty sure Jesus was clear when he said that the only way to heaven is through him.
 
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suaso

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#7
#7
I'm not sure that we can limit God's mercy...limit Jesus's death on the cross... in such a way that those poor souls who have never been privileged to hear of Christ are doomed to hell de facto. I believe it is in God's capacity to judge them as he sees fit, and I believe in a merciful God who understands that Bushman Bob never got missionaries to come to his village to tell him that polygamy was a sin and so on, and is willing to give Bob some sort of chance that we're not aware of yet. (I've never died, so I can't say what all happens at that point, as you can imagine.)
 
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Maddog

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#8
#8
suaso said:
I'm not sure that we can limit God's mercy...limit Jesus's death on the cross... in such a way that those poor souls who have never been privileged to hear of Christ are doomed to hell de facto. I believe it is in God's capacity to judge them as he sees fit, and I believe in a merciful God who understands that Bushman Bob never got missionaries to come to his village to tell him that polygamy was a sin and so on, and is willing to give Bob some sort of chance that we're not aware of yet. (I've never died, so I can't say what all happens at that point, as you can imagine.)
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Catholicism teaches something called Baptism of Desire, doesn't it?

But to the question at hand, I believe men can still attain salvation without ever formally hearing the gospel and giving their intellectual assent to the tenets of Christianity as they will be judged according to the light they have received.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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Jan 8, 2009
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Okay I do see what you are saying Revelation 20:12, but are you saying that we can enter heaven by our deeds? Cause I'm pretty sure Jesus was clear when he said that the only way to heaven is through him.
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Judgement day is the time when God will judge each person by what they have done.
That's where God, like suaso mentioned, will judge these cases fairly. It is not only those who haven't heard the gospel God will need to consider, but also those living before Christ did not had opportunity to believe in Christ. Does it sound fair to you to send someone to hell for eternity who honestly did not hear of Christ, was a good father or mother and raised children and taught them right from wrong? Christ did die for the whole world remember not just those who hear the Gospel, so the atonement for their sins has already been made. It is just then up to God to determine.
 
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stevenwyatt

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#10
#10
Are there any other SCRIPTURAL references aside from those provided by Definition? Definition_Christ: Thank you for those passages btw. ^_^'
 
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Definition_Christ

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#11
#11
Umm.. I'm not sure where the idea "good deeds out-weigh bad deeds".. Maybe Isalm doctrines? That is what it sounds like to me..Revelation 20:12 in no way mentions that anyone will enter heaven by works.

Revelation 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


Note. Good works do not erase your bad deeds... If good works (without Christ) had ANYTHING to do with salvation, Christ died in vain.

Galations 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain

If Jesus, who is the author of salvation can communicate to those who have never heard the gospel in anyway than salvation is possible and it's not outside of the name of Christ. Seeing how Jesus is the author of salvation.
But it is not by works and Revelation 20:12 is in no way suggesting that. Rather.. Romans 1:18-32 explains God's natural revelation to man.

stevenwyatt said:
Are there any other SCRIPTURAL references aside from those provided by Definition? Definition_Christ: Thank you for those passages btw. ^_^'
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No problem bro.
 
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Maddog

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#12
#12
stevenwyatt said:
Are there any other SCRIPTURAL references aside from those provided by Definition? Definition_Christ: Thank you for those passages btw. ^_^'
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I don't think there are any explicit references, other than those already posted. However, I think we can be sure of a) God's mercy, b) God's desire for all men to be saved and c) that Christ died for the world.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to have hope of salvation for those souls who never heard the gospel, if they are sincerely seeking God. If this is the case, then they would presumably have converted and been baptised had a missionary reached them, but I don't think God holds their circumstances against them.
 
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Cako53

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#13
#13
MahogonySnail said:
Judgement day is the time when God will judge each person by what they have done.
That's where God, like suaso mentioned, will judge these cases fairly. It is not only those who haven't heard the gospel God will need to consider, but also those living before Christ did not had opportunity to believe in Christ. Does it sound fair to you to send someone to hell for eternity who honestly did not hear of Christ, was a good father or mother and raised children and taught them right from wrong? Christ did die for the whole world remember not just those who hear the Gospel, so the atonement for their sins has already been made. It is just then up to God to determine.
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I agree that people who haven't heard the gospel, deserve a chance, I do not deny that. I know that Christ died for EVERYBODY. I was just wondering how good works got you into heaven? because I don't believe that any person can be good enough on his own to enter heaven.
 
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Maddog

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#14
#14
Cako53 said:
I agree that people who haven't heard the gospel, deserve a chance, I do not deny that. I know that Christ died for EVERYBODY. I was just wondering how good works got you into heaven? because I don't believe that any person can be good enough on his own to enter heaven.
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I don't think it's about good works per se, rather it's about their response to the grace that is available to them. Someone seeking to do God's will according their best understanding would imply a desire for Christ even though they lack explicit knowledge of Him. They are still saved by Christ and by grace.
 
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stevenwyatt

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#15
#15
I really didn't expect such a healthy response being so new here. Thank you all so much. I wonder how intense the return will be when I start asking for help in regards to my personally endeavors lol ^_^'
 
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jcspartan

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#16
#16
Romans 2:6,14-16
6For He will render to every man according to his works [justly, as his deeds deserve]: . . .14When Gentiles who have not the [divine] Law do instinctively what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, since they do not have the Law. 15They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts and are operating there, with which their consciences (sense of right and wrong) also bear witness; and their [moral] decisions (their arguments of reason, their condemning or approving thoughts) will accuse or perhaps defend and excuse [them] 16On that day when, as my Gospel proclaims, God by Jesus Christ will judge men in regard to the things which they conceal (their hidden thoughts).


We will be judged by what we do or don't do. For those who have not heard the word, each man is his own standard by which God holds them accountable to His judgement. Do we do perfectly those things we know to do? God evaluates our behavior in light of what we do know. And on some level all people have a sense of right and wrong that is inherent in our make up as God's moral law is written on our hearts.

The exception is the person who has faith in Christ. We are not judged by our conduct but according to Christ's righteousness which we have been credited or imputed with. Romans 4:6, 7
 
pickles

pickles

Senior Member
#17
Apr 20, 2009
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My understanding was that there is scripture about this. It said that the return of Jesus would not happen untill all had heard the word of his salvation.
Sorry I cannot remember where it is , but Ill try.
God bless, pickles
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#18
Jan 8, 2009
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Note. Good works do not erase your bad deeds... If good works (without Christ) had ANYTHING to do with salvation, Christ died in vain.
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I like what jcspartan said. Good works do have some part in salvation, particularly for those whom have no heard of Christ. And I know I'm reposting this but:

Rom 2:7 indeed to those who with patience in good work are seeking for glory, and honor, and incorruptibility, everlasting life.
Rom 2:8 But to those who indeed disobeying the truth out of self-seeking, and obeying unrighteousness, will be anger and wrath,
Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who has worked out evil; of the Jew first, and also of the Greek.
Rom 2:10 But He will give glory, honor and peace to every man who works good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of faces with God.

The doers of the Law will be justified etc etc.

But yes, it may be that they end up in hell anyway if they don't accept Christ because our own righteousness doesn't really measure up. One theory is that they get a chance to accept Christ at the resurrection even though they didn't get an opportunity in their life on earth.
 
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suaso

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#19
#19
1. No one can come to the Father but through Jesus.

Well, let's also look at it this way:
If anyone comes to the Father, it is because of Jesus. In this regard, if Bushman Bob makes it to heaven without ever hearing of Jesus, it may be because Jesus died for Bushman Bob's sins too, and desires that Bob make it to heaven, and that he recognizes Bob's search and desire for God and the good in the world, and Bob will be judged accordingly.

As for the Second Coming not happening until the Gospel has been preached to the whole world, which is mentioned in the Bible, what good is it to Bushman Bob's family in 2009ad if they have never heard the Gospel, but Bushman Bob's tribe and ancestors get the Gospel sometime in 2086ad after he's dead and gone? The whole word will have been preached to, but the Bushman Estate missed the boat by about 87 years. I believe this is where the desire of a person to do what is good and right comes into play as their very being, which inherently is seeking for unity with the Creator who beckons the created to him, searches for God and the Good with an ernest desire to do what is right.
 
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greatkraw

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#20
#20
Cako53 said:
I agree that people who haven't heard the gospel, deserve a chance, I do not deny that. I know that Christ died for EVERYBODY. I was just wondering how good works got you into heaven? because I don't believe that any person can be good enough on his own to enter heaven.
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This reference really nails this issue.

http://www.laborersinchrist.org/answers/q.htm

Jesus Christ really did die for the sins of the whole world.

The unpardonable sin is rejecting the salvation that his sacrifice offers.

When people are born, their names are in the Book of Life.

When they reject Christ their names are blotted out.

All that they have left is their deeds. Not their sins, but their good deeds will condemn them because human good has no value in God's eyes. That is why we depend on Christ's righteousness, not our own.
 
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