Salvation is Definitely By Works -- God's Works, not Man's

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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,986
43
0
#1
Completely off topic where we were discussing Ephraem or pseuo-Ephraem's sermon(s) -- are they pretrib in early middle ages??? -- highwayman decided to jump in off topic & start accusing me of teaching one can lose salvation & that I teach salvation by works. For crying outloud!

there you go again...stating works maintain salvation....you imply it can be lost....

No, salvation cannot be lost or it would not be salvation. I am going to answer you on a new thread, as this is OT here.

As a matter of fact salvation is by works & it requires a lot of work, much more than any man could ever do; thus God did & does the work. Salvation is by God's works, not by man's work -- all we must do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & thou shalt be saved. As the only condition of staying saved is that God keeps on being God; we cannot lose salvation (oxymoron).


Romans 5

ccess by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we also rejoice in our tribulations: knowing that tribulation worketh stedfastness; 4 and stedfastness, approvedness; and approvedness, hope: 5 and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. 6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. 10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; 11 and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Now off the top of my head what occurs to me as to God's saving actions/works in the present are:
1) the intercessory work of our lawyer, the Lord Jesus our advocate,
2) cutting short the tribulation or no flesh would be saved,
3) the chastizing by satan of 1 Cor, destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved,
4) the limitation of trials to what we are able to bear.

Probably other scriptural works by God could be listed.
 

ELECT

Senior Member
Aug 18, 2014
2,332
4
0
#2
Completely off topic where we were discussing Ephraem or pseuo-Ephraem's sermon(s) -- are they pretrib in early middle ages??? -- highwayman decided to jump in off topic & start accusing me of teaching one can lose salvation & that I teach salvation by works. For crying outloud!

No, salvation cannot be lost or it would not be salvation. I am going to answer you on a new thread, as this is OT here.

As a matter of fact salvation is by works & it requires a lot of work, much more than any man could ever do; thus God did & does the work. Salvation is by God's works, not by man's work -- all we must do is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & thou shalt be saved. As the only condition of staying saved is that God keeps on being God; we cannot lose salvation (oxymoron).


Romans 5

ccess by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we also rejoice in our tribulations: knowing that tribulation worketh stedfastness; 4 and stedfastness, approvedness; and approvedness, hope: 5 and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. 6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. 10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; 11 and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Now off the top of my head what occurs to me as to God's saving actions/works in the present are:
1) the intercessory work of our lawyer, the Lord Jesus our advocate,
2) cutting short the tribulation or no flesh would be saved,
3) the chastizing by satan of 1 Cor, destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved,
4) the limitation of trials to what we are able to bear.

Probably other scriptural works by God could be listed.
Who are the foolish virgins ? Why are called foolish ?;)
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#3
[h=1]1 Timothy 4:1-5[/h]4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,986
43
0
#4
1 Timothy 4:1-5

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, .
Does that verse speak of you, Kenneth?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#6
Does that verse speak of you, Kenneth?
No it does not, because I know my faith is strong and firm in the Lord.

But you still can not say this holds true for all believers, as the Holy Spirit is the one who Paul is saying here that says will depart from the faith in Christ. If you still hold that somebody can not fall from salvation, then your debate is with the Holy Spirit and Paul. Not with me......


[h=1]Ephesians 4:17-19[/h][h=3]The New Man[/h]17This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.


[h=1]Ephesians 4:25-32[/h][h=3]Do Not Grieve the Spirit[/h]25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,”[a] for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”:[b] do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil.28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with hishands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. 32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
 

Word_Swordsman

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2014
1,470
32
0
#7
Probably other scriptural works by God could be listed.
The one work of Jesus on that cross was all God the Father accepted for our salvation. It didn't take a long list of works to achieve that.

If I spent 40 years making a perfect rocking chair for sale, my work would be in terrible vain if no customer could be found to recompense my labor. But at least I would have the one perfect chair to sit and rock on.

God made his last offer to mankind, that if a man/woman would dearly appreciate his "chair" of salvation built up from eternity past, enough to own it like buying a field to own a precious pearl found on it, then he would be satisfied. Adam failed to honor the one requirement of God, failing to enter into God's rest. The Jews failed to honor the 613 commands from God. Man can't claim ignorance of God's holiness, but God won't dilute his holiness.

If a man rejects the work of God, then the man can't own the work of God, or expect the benefits promised of that work. The man/woman will not possess that work, nor enjoy the benefits of rest in that work. So God keeps his rest, and rebellious man keeps his own works, causing daily sweat across his brow, and worrisome unrest.

Enter into God's permanent rest. Adam had it, lost it, then Jesus reclaimed it. Enter into it with Jesus.
 

passinthru

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2014
284
4
0
#8
Read 1 cor 5.... losing salvation is tough but turning away from God, even if you may still be saved, will make life here on earth very miserable and
hard.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
139
0
#10
1 Timothy 4:1-5

4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Yes, many of those who profess faith but do not possess true faith by rebirth, will depart because their faith is counterfeit (Lk 8:13).
But some will not depart from their counterfeit faith which does not save (Mt 7:21-23).
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#11
Yes, many of those who profess faith but do not possess true faith by rebirth, will depart because their faith is counterfeit (Lk 8:13).
But some will not depart from their counterfeit faith which does not save (Mt 7:21-23).
Yes but there are many out there who believe their faith alone will save them, and nothing is required for them to do.
That scripture you gave in Matthew 7 shows that only those who do the will of God will get eternal life, and following everything the Lord told us is part of that will done in our lives.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
139
0
#12
Elin said:
Yes, many of those who profess faith but do not possess true faith by rebirth, will depart because their faith is counterfeit (Lk 8:13).
But some will not depart from their counterfeit faith which does not save (Mt 7:21-23).
Yes but there are many out there who believe their faith alone will save them, and nothing is required for them to do.
Well, true faith is never alone, obedience always accompanies it.
Their faith is not true, but counterfeit.

That scripture you gave in Matthew 7 shows that only those who do the will of God will get eternal life,
Yes, only those who do the will of God have true faith which saves.
Those who do not do God's will have counterfeit faith and are not saved.

Their obedience does not save them, it simply manifests whether their faith is true or not.

No obedience<--no salvation<--no true faith.
True faith-->salvation-->obedience.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,986
43
0
#13
No it does not, because I know my faith is strong and firm in the Lord.
If your faith is in the Lord, then how is it that you think He may not save you??? Your faith has been demo'ed to be in yourself, thinking you will pass some future judgment & on that basis be saved.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#14
If your faith is in the Lord, then how is it that you think He may not save you??? Your faith has been demo'ed to be in yourself, thinking you will pass some future judgment & on that basis be saved.

You only look at it one sided though Atwood.
Just because we can be secure of where our faith is, and can not be shaken. This does not mean it applies for all, as the bible clearly says some will depart from the faith do to trials and tribulations (hardships), and others do to false teaching. These are the ones who are weak in the faith that we are called to try and keep from stumbling.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,986
43
0
#15
You only look at it one sided though Atwood.
Just because we can be secure of where our faith is, and can not be shaken. This does not mean it applies for all, as the bible clearly says some will depart from the faith do to trials and tribulations (hardships), and others do to false teaching. These are the ones who are weak in the faith that we are called to try and keep from stumbling.
Kenneth, of course it is ever true that some hold a body of correct beliefs (the faith) and later deny it. That is called apostasy. But people are not saved for believing mere facts, like "Jesus is the Son of God." People are not saved for signing a doctrinal statement, but for trusting the Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

May the Lord open your eyes & heart.

Apostates prove they were never saved by their apostasy.
Of course in your case, you don't even say you are saved, do you?

Heb 6:9 : But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

(The apostates mentioned earlier did not have salvation.)

1 John

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

Those who are "of us" are born again believers, children of God. They continue in the Body of Christ. A person who associates with believers & goes our from us, shows that he was no of us, never a child of God, never a part of the Body.


When will you stop arguing & take the knee, confessing that y
ou are a sinnner & trusting the Savior?
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,174
88
48
#17
Yes but there are many out there who believe their faith alone will save them, and nothing is required for them to do.
That scripture you gave in Matthew 7 shows that only those who do the will of God will get eternal life, and following everything the Lord told us is part of that will done in our lives.
I have been over on another thread call 'Not By Works', and there are a lot of strict OSAS people there.

It does not seem to matter what scripture I use or what logic I use, they are not going to budge.

So any suggestions would be appreciated. Nice to hear a voice that believes the way I do.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
2,926
42
48
#18
I have been over on another thread call 'Not By Works', and there are a lot of strict OSAS people there.

It does not seem to matter what scripture I use or what logic I use, they are not going to budge.

So any suggestions would be appreciated.
Now you might see why the LORD said his spirit would not always strive with man, because you can't reason with a believer since they have no faith.

While that is not to say that they are not of great value to the LORD, but it sounds like your motivation is proselytizing. So I can imagine how disappointing as a reward seeker that must be if they aren't budging.

While I am not here to change anyone's mind, which might be a reason for your difficulty since how can you change something they ain't got? That is why I am just heed taking of the have nots, since there is nothing in the hand of those in whom is no faith, which is why I saved the evidence of my faith regarding the comment about not having their mind til now.
Since believing in God is not faith, because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God then if one has faith they must have evidence of thing hoped for.

INice to hear a voice that believes the way I do.
So what is your take on this passage?

39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
John 9:39-10:1