Sarcasm

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Jan 8, 2009
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#41
First we have to understand what love is. As I said, loving others does not mean avoiding insults and offenses at any cost according to the over-sensitive touchy-feely society we live in today. Certainly, sometimes we are to be like that. But unfortunately that subjective touchy-feely 'love' has become the modern day christian definition of love instead of objective truth and love for God. We are to love God first, and love for God will not mean that you will accept every insult that comes your way on the name of Christ. Always being careful not to offend others is not loving God first, but loving others first, in my opinion. See the words of Christ in the mind of a first centuary third world audience, they are sometimes downright offensive if you were in the party they applied to. Other times Christ simply walked away quietly. One time I spoke to a guy who thought himself half christian and half buddhist, I told him in no uncertain terms that he must give up his buddhism and follow Christ and why the heck would he want anything to do with buddhism. I was mad, this guy had been fornicating with buddha all the while claiming to be Christian. The next week I saw him he had stopped reading about buddhism, and he's come a fair way in his walk with Christ since. Perhaps I should have said, "well, I respect your beliefs and you can do what you like, sweety", would he still be reading about buddha? Maybe he would, I don't know.

Don't be so worried about any nasty tempers driving people away. That keeps us too self-focussed on our own performance. The thing is, it is not your feelings or your temper or personality bringing someone to Christ it is God's power. If it is your nice personality or nice temperament bringing them to Christ, it is likely they will be a false convert. Anyone who puts their trust in the messenger rather than Christ is going to be disapointed some time or another. No human is perfect including christians. When we bring the gospel to someone, it's really like this - even if you had the nastiest temper in the world but were offering a cheque for $100,00000000 free to take to anyone who wants it, do you think they'd walk away and not take it? If they do it's the free gift they have a problem with not the one who points them to the free gift. The disciples were basically uneducated rat-bags who knew Christ personally. Many times the disciples said things that offended their opponents enough to want to kill them. Act 7:54 And hearing these things, they were cut to their hearts. And they gnashed on him with their teeth.

And in the case of Stephen , what he told them about them having hard hearts and stiff necks and accusing them of being murderers, was enough for him to be stoned.

Many of the scriptures about not offending others, is spoken to brethren over matters of faith and conscience. Even the context of 1 Cor 13 is spoken to brothers and sisters in Christ, as people were not respecting or loving their fellow brethren in the church through the use of their spiritual gifts!
 
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Leilaii425

Guest
#42
So its okay to insult the ones you love?
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#43
First we have to understand what love is. As I said, loving others does not mean avoiding insults and offenses at any cost according to the over-sensitive touchy-feely society we live in today. Certainly, sometimes we are to be like that. But unfortunately that subjective touchy-feely 'love' has become the modern day christian definition of love instead of objective truth and love for God. We are to love God first, and love for God will not mean that you will accept every insult that comes your way on the name of Christ. Always being careful not to offend others is not loving God first, but loving others first, in my opinion. See the words of Christ in the mind of a first centuary third world audience, they are sometimes downright offensive if you were in the party they applied to. Other times Christ simply walked away quietly. One time I spoke to a guy who thought himself half christian and half buddhist, I told him in no uncertain terms that he must give up his buddhism and follow Christ and why the heck would he want anything to do with buddhism. I was mad, this guy had been fornicating with buddha all the while claiming to be Christian. The next week I saw him he had stopped reading about buddhism, and he's come a fair way in his walk with Christ since. Perhaps I should have said, "well, I respect your beliefs and you can do what you like, sweety", would he still be reading about buddha? Maybe he would, I don't know.

Don't be so worried about any nasty tempers driving people away. That keeps us too self-focussed on our own performance. The thing is, it is not your feelings or your temper or personality bringing someone to Christ it is God's power. If it is your nice personality or nice temperament bringing them to Christ, it is likely they will be a false convert. Anyone who puts their trust in the messenger rather than Christ is going to be disapointed some time or another. No human is perfect including christians. When we bring the gospel to someone, it's really like this - even if you had the nastiest temper in the world but were offering a cheque for $100,00000000 free to take to anyone who wants it, do you think they'd walk away and not take it? If they do it's the free gift they have a problem with not the one who points them to the free gift. The disciples were basically uneducated rat-bags who knew Christ personally. Many times the disciples said things that offended their opponents enough to want to kill them. Act 7:54 And hearing these things, they were cut to their hearts. And they gnashed on him with their teeth.

And in the case of Stephen , what he told them about them having hard hearts and stiff necks and accusing them of being murderers, was enough for him to be stoned.

Many of the scriptures about not offending others, is spoken to brethren over matters of faith and conscience. Even the context of 1 Cor 13 is spoken to brothers and sisters in Christ, as people were not respecting or loving their fellow brethren in the church through the use of their spiritual gifts!
I would say you are young, knowledgeable, and undisciplined—sort of a scary combination.
You seem to think you know the mind of Jesus, who was God in the flesh. None of us know the mind of Jesus.
I think Paul says it much better than I, so let me copy the entire thirteenth chapter of First Corinthians RSV) here:

[1] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
[2] And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
[3] If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
[4] Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful;
[5] it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
[6] it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.
[7] Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
[8] Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.
[9] For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;
[10] but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.
[11] When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.
[12] For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.
[13] So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#44
I would say you are young, knowledgeable, and undisciplined—sort of a scary combination.
You seem to think you know the mind of Jesus, who was God in the flesh. None of us know the mind of Jesus.
Those who think Jesus did not use sarcasm and humor also claim to know the mind of Jesus, do they not?




I think Paul says it much better than I, so let me copy the entire thirteenth chapter of First Corinthians RSV) here:
You yet haven't clued onto the fact that these verses are speaking to brethren within a particular church, addressing a particular situation of disorder in that church. Divide the Word rightly. You know, in dealing with the Pharisees, Jesus wasn't always patient and kind. I've shown many examples, the bible speaks for itself, argue with God's Word not me. The real Jesus is not a straight faced emotionless 'gandhi'-like politically correct person as you suppose. Why do you think they wanted to kill Jesus, because he spoke the truth in love? Not always , but because he spoke the truth using fairly offensive statements, in love. And I think we err if we think people like the Dalai Lama are the best example of biblical love.
 
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Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#45
Seee :

http://www.hillcrestchurchofchrist.com/articles/jimmy_pettigrew/OhYouOffendedMe.htm


I don't think Jesus lived his life thinking gee I hope I didn't offend them. He knew he would offend them, yet he said it anyway. Jesus using offensive language when it was called for, was certainly intentional. Since Jesus never sinned , it is not a sin, and does not contradict 1 Cor 13. Even Christ's rebukes and his judgements are out of His love.
 
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Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#46
So we must not buy into the modern day lie that to love someone is to not offend them or hurt their feelings. That doesn't come from God that comes from your local radio or TV station. Offense will be an inevitable outcome if we are speaking the truth, and sarcasm can help take the edge off what would be a nasty thing to say. Rather than saying up straight "you're on your way to hell", you can say, "gee, i'm sure you're so good that you're on your way to heaven" (sarcasm). The sarcasm may get them thinking about if they are in fact good enough to get to heaven, rather than the fact that you told them they are on their way to hell.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#47
MahogonySnail,

You tell me to ignore what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13. Then you tell the whole ChristianChat community that if we don’t follow Paul, we are not Christians. Isn’t that hypocrisy? Didn’t the Lord express anger towards the hypocrites?

The definition of love is doing what is best for people. It has nothing to do with your definition of love. If you have kids and they misbehave, then love means you have to punish them.

If you have to punish people, there is a right way and wrong way to do it. Standing there and hurling insults at them is counterproductive. They’ll just get angry and try to do the opposite of what you want them to do.

Off the top of my head, truth is perhaps the only weapon you need. In this post I have not insulted you nor used sarcasm nor belittled you, nor have I in anything I’ve said to you in previous posts, that I am aware of. I just keep telling the truth, as I see it, until your are forced to agree that I am right or can prove that I am wrong.
 
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jesuslover911

Guest
#48
Sarcasm is just like lying in my opinion. When you use sarcasm, you are lying. And if you just tell people about God as just a lie then that is really bad. Your actually lying. So my answer is no
 
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