Saved by Law?

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Mar 11, 2011
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#1
You Bettcha! Because of the pathetic bul____, oops, I mean English translation of THE SCRIPTURES (NOT in bul____,English)

But in Truth. HEBREW.

People actually believe that they are not under THE LAW/COMMANDMENTS. what completely delusional people they are.

Lets see; tonight, I think i'll go and lie in wait for some poor sucker, clobber him/her over the head, take their money and jewelry and if I get caught, i'll just say; I didn't do it, prove it.

This IS the theme of The 10 Commandments, the rest of the 7, though can be done in different ways; the bottom line worst violation of them, are about having the wrong Father.

They only apply to a person IF they don't follow the 2 Greatest Commandments of ALL.

The 2 Commandments that Our Father gave, the same 2 Christ/Messiah Confirmed & Affirmed.

Otherwise, if one doesn't love their neighbour (as much as one is able to, for it is not possible, if they don't let you) then rest assured, one is surely under the 10.

In reality, go to your neighbour, and start to witness what you believe, and see and feel for a reality, what it is actually like, to be persecuted, or snowed over with pretentious garbage. I Dare You!
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
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#2
Hmmm not sure what to make of this one. No one however can ever be saved by the law or jesus never would have given his life. And I always say follow the most important commandment as Jesus quoted and the rest will just naturally fall into place in your heart. we are not bound by the law anymore but we still have to follow it as it is an important growth step in our faith
 
Mar 11, 2011
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#3
Hmmm not sure what to make of this one. No one however can ever be saved by the law or jesus never would have given his life. And I always say follow the most important commandment as Jesus quoted and the rest will just naturally fall into place in your heart. we are not bound by the law anymore but we still have to follow it as it is an important growth step in our faith
Did you ever ponder, that through obeying the 10, that Christ is then able to save You? and that if your not obeying them,and one is ignorant of Christ, then their really not guilty. Until somebody witness's Christ to them.

Then they can be held accountable, after they come to the knowledge of The Truth, often times when one is doing these things, ignorant of The Father's Will, they will have a change of heart, when they find out that ultimtley, they won't be held accountable by the law; but rather to The Creator of Life and The Source of Love, Our Father, through The Christ/Messiah on his Day of Reckoning & Teaching in the Spirit.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#4
Proverbs 4:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Romans 7:12-13 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

If we say there is salvation in the law we are incorrect. If we say the law leads us to salvation, then that is different. Salvation can't be found in the law, but salvation can be be found through the law, like at the end of the journey, for it leads us to Christ. Consider these two scriptures and put then together.

Romans 10:4-9 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

If we stop coming to Christ daily, the we depart from Him for His creation is never changing, yet always moving. We are required by His grace to move with His creation.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#5
Leviticus 4:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known, then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation.


Acts 17:30 (KJV)

[SUP]30 [/SUP]And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

No excuse any longer to be ignorant of the truth.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
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#6
Did you ever ponder,
that through obeying the 10, that Christ is then able to save You?
and that if your not obeying them,and one is ignorant of Christ, then their really not guilty. Until somebody witness's Christ to them.

Then they can be held accountable, after they come to the knowledge of The Truth, often times when one is doing these things, ignorant of The Father's Will, they will have a change of heart, when they find out that ultimtley, they won't be held accountable by the law; but rather to The Creator of Life and The Source of Love, Our Father, through The Christ/Messiah on his Day of Reckoning & Teaching in the Spirit.
The only way Christ can save you is if you let him into your heart. Merely obeying the law is not enough if that were so then what use would a relationship with him be? Do you know what I have seen when people use the method you speak of? They end up saying they are righteous because they obey the law not from faith. They say they know christ because they follow the law and we who know him by faith do not because we cannot keep the laws as good as them. They get big headed and some even call themselves sinless. Others say we do not really know God nor are we saved because we do not follow the ten commandments as we should.

This is just a part of what I have seen from a view such as that.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#7
We have been commanded by Jesus to love, and by such, we do keep the commandments. When we do not love, we, therefore, break the commandments.

To ask, "Are we to keep the commandments" is to ask, "Are we to love"?

However, we are not obedient to the Law as our guide to the Father. But nevertheless, our obedience belongs to the Son.

The Law has death as its judicial sentencing for those who follow it in faith.

The Son has live as His judicial sentencing for those who follow Him in faith.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,260
140
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#8
You Bettcha! Because of the pathetic bul____, oops, I mean English translation of THE SCRIPTURES (NOT in bul____,English)

But in Truth. HEBREW.

People actually believe that they are not under THE LAW/COMMANDMENTS. what completely delusional people they are.

Lets see; tonight, I think i'll go and lie in wait for some poor sucker, clobber him/her over the head, take their money and jewelry and if I get caught, i'll just say; I didn't do it, prove it.

This IS the theme of The 10 Commandments, the rest of the 7, though can be done in different ways; the bottom line worst violation of them, are about having the wrong Father.

They only apply to a person IF they don't follow the 2 Greatest Commandments of ALL.

The 2 Commandments that Our Father gave, the same 2 Christ/Messiah Confirmed & Affirmed.

Otherwise, if one doesn't love their neighbour (as much as one is able to, for it is not possible, if they don't let you) then rest assured, one is surely under the 10.

In reality, go to your neighbour, and start to witness what you believe, and see and feel for a reality, what it is actually like, to be persecuted, or snowed over with pretentious garbage. I Dare You!
Loving God is described by the first four. Loving your neighbor is described by the last six. The overall comman of love is described by the two great commands. Why is this so difficult?
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
772
11
0
#9
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul[f] from death and cover a multitude of sins.

what does it mean to wonder from the truth?
What does this scripture say happens if they are not turned back?



 

allaboutlove

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
478
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#10
We are not under the law but grace... the law is still important to follow but it dosent save us..
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
772
11
0
#11
please answer using the scripture above so that i can be sure its not being ignored to perpetuate what we prefer to believe.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#12
Loving God is described by the first four. Loving your neighbor is described by the last six. The overall comman of love is described by the two great commands. Why is this so difficult?
Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that he who loves others as himself has fulfilled ALL righteousness required by the law of Moses?
 
Mar 11, 2011
887
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#13
The only way Christ can save you is if you let him into your heart. Merely obeying the law is not enough if that were so then what use would a relationship with him be? Do you know what I have seen when people use the method you speak of? They end up saying they are righteous because they obey the law not from faith. They say they know christ because they follow the law and we who know him by faith do not because we cannot keep the laws as good as them. They get big headed and some even call themselves sinless. Others say we do not really know God nor are we saved because we do not follow the ten commandments as we should.

This is just a part of what I have seen from a view such as that.
I think we have a mis-communication here lol; its just when anyone claims to be a Christian, there are certain presumptions that I take for granted. Of course Christ/Messiah IS the only way to be saved, no choices, zip, zero, zilch,notta one.

But it was Christ/Messiah that taught, (not me) that he, Christ, did NOT come to change one jot or tittle of The Law.

As you know in reality, there are a lot of laws; municipal/Ordinances: State/Provincial = Statutes: and Federal/National= Commandment Laws.

Its hard to get this in the English textbook, the Bible, but in the Hebrew or Greek, it is easy to see that he Christ/Messiah is talking about Federal/National/Commandment Laws; NOT the statutes and ordinances, of which he Christ/Messiah did not only change, but pretty well nailed all of them to the cross; saving one ordinance, The daily sinners prayer, and 3 Statutes, the 3 feasts of The Tabernacle, the Conception, Thanksgiving and Passing-Over and Resurrection of a Saviour;

In which The Father stated; that though they keep them in ignorance, and I WILL NOT accept them (Christmas/Thanksgiving/Easter), they will be held as a Memorial unto me (The Father) throughout every generation.

Certainly I am not attempting to be righteous lol, as I am a sinner, and lied, cheated, stole, thought about wanting to murder some people, hated, begrudged, thought about exacting revenge upon people who did me wrong, and probably worst of all had a vulgar mouth/church, and Christ knows whatever else etc....

And ALL of this happened over 40 years, in which the whole time I had my faith/hope in Christ, but not a clue to speak of about The Father.

Now that I have heard The Father's explanation of Christianity,(OT) and Not some mans; ALL of these things have changed in me; but most importantly the vulgar mouth/church.

And though my mouth/church is still bold, it is not vulgar, and at least I know that what comes out of it, is what The Father has to say about Christ/Messiah, and not some mans.

And now that I do know, that is why I try to be so careful, as to not lie, and not lose control of my emotions, for then i'm in need of repentance again, and that sucks, as I've been there a few times too. (its not pleasant)

I also have incredible peace of mind, with a simmering sadness, for those who know not what, The Father has to say.

Also in reguards to the 10 Commandments; consider how many Federal laws of man there are; and that's why GOD says His Laws are Not grevious; 10 verses ????? who knows, new ones every year lol.

And in reality how many true Christian beleivers, that are mature, lie, steal, murder, rape and abuse children ? Well guess what? a lot do, when it comes to lying and stealing (through self-justification) the others, not only do I not want to know, but if these evils cross my path, guess what? I would perform a Justified Kill upon them, knowing that although I may be held accountable through mans laws, (Moses our example) that I would have no problem looking Christ or The Father in the eye concerning this.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
14,546
394
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#14
I think we have a mis-communication here lol; its just when anyone claims to be a Christian, there are certain presumptions that I take for granted. Of course Christ/Messiah IS the only way to be saved, no choices, zip, zero, zilch,notta one.

But it was Christ/Messiah that taught, (not me) that he, Christ, did NOT come to change one jot or tittle of The Law.

As you know in reality, there are a lot of laws; municipal/Ordinances: State/Provincial = Statutes: and Federal/National= Commandment Laws.

Its hard to get this in the English textbook, the Bible, but in the Hebrew or Greek, it is easy to see that he Christ/Messiah is talking about Federal/National/Commandment Laws; NOT the statutes and ordinances, of which he Christ/Messiah did not only change, but pretty well nailed all of them to the cross; saving one ordinance, The daily sinners prayer, and 3 Statutes, the 3 feasts of The Tabernacle, the Conception, Thanksgiving and Passing-Over and Resurrection of a Saviour;

In which The Father stated; that though they keep them in ignorance, and I WILL NOT accept them (Christmas/Thanksgiving/Easter), they will be held as a Memorial unto me (The Father) throughout every generation.

Certainly I am not attempting to be righteous lol, as I am a sinner, and lied, cheated, stole, thought about wanting to murder some people, hated, begrudged, thought about exacting revenge upon people who did me wrong, and probably worst of all had a vulgar mouth/church, and Christ knows whatever else etc....

And ALL of this happened over 40 years, in which the whole time I had my faith/hope in Christ, but not a clue to speak of about The Father.

Now that I have heard The Father's explanation of Christianity,(OT) and Not some mans; ALL of these things have changed in me; but most importantly the vulgar mouth/church.

And though my mouth/church is still bold, it is not vulgar, and at least I know that what comes out of it, is what The Father has to say about Christ/Messiah, and not some mans.

And now that I do know, that is why I try to be so careful, as to not lie, and not lose control of my emotions, for then i'm in need of repentance again, and that sucks, as I've been there a few times too. (its not pleasant)

I also have incredible peace of mind, with a simmering sadness, for those who know not what, The Father has to say.

Also in reguards to the 10 Commandments; consider how many Federal laws of man there are; and that's why GOD says His Laws are Not grevious; 10 verses ????? who knows, new ones every year lol.

And in reality how many true Christian beleivers, that are mature, lie, steal, murder, rape and abuse children ? Well guess what? a lot do, when it comes to lying and stealing (through self-justification) the others, not only do I not want to know, but if these evils cross my path, guess what? I would perform a Justified Kill upon them, knowing that although I may be held accountable through mans laws, (Moses our example) that I would have no problem looking Christ or The Father in the eye concerning this.
Oh no no no I didn't mean to imply you were the one I describing I guess I also misunderstood sorry about that
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#15
Hello
I was thinking about this and it seems to me that people don't seem to know when they are under a works mentality and when they are under grace and also when they are ministering a work mentality on people.

in my opinion under this statement is an example(me and my little sister) of ministering a law mentality ...in todays world i think of it as a works mentality.

...................................................................................................................................................................
Me and my little sister went to church and when the band came out to sing worship songs before hearing the word.Every one got up to sing with the band,but my sister was still sitting.I thought that her still sitting there while everyone worshiped was disrepectful,so i told her to stand up with us.
...................................................................................................................................................................


I realized that i had put a works mentality on her,because she got up to please me and what i might think...She did not get up because she had a desire within herself to please GOD.

I believe that when it comes to the law mindset that people if they attempt to fullfil the law requirements that they won't be able to do it in truth,and they will be using their will power and then some days they won't feel like doing this to get GOD to love them.

viewing the king james version
Mark 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#16
Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:


It's the law, but you cannot love without a spirit of love.
1 John 4:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.


You must have the Spirit of God to love God. Can't do that until you get the Spirit of God by repenting of your sins, and confessing them to get forgiveness for them. It's called being born again.
John 3:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
 
Mar 11, 2011
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#17
please answer using the scripture above so that i can be sure its not being ignored to perpetuate what we prefer to believe.
Well, this is impossible for me to do, as I am not a gifted linguist. It depends on what one considers the Scriptures to be, and I assure you they are not English, as this is just a translation.

Though in English they will aide ones faith, they do nothing in coming to the knowledge of GOD ALMIGHTY`s Word.

Genesis The Whole Truth. The rest of the Bible, the unfolding of what was said in Genesis.

Genesis, The strong foundation in which Salvation in and through Christ,Messiah was prophesied by Our Father, not some man.

Does Not line up with any religion, Christian or otherwise.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#18
Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that he who loves others as himself has fulfilled ALL righteousness required by the law of Moses?
I think most people want the description of love so they can identify between the love of God and the love of man.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#19
I think most people want the description of love so they can identify between the love of God and the love of man.
Don't project your want onto most people.

The law is clear; he that loves his neighbor as himself has fulfilled the righteousness required by GOD's laws. That means he loves GOD as well.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#20
I don't think it is difficult to understand at all what being saved by Christ means, and what law has to do with that.

Law points out sin, gives us the parameters of that. We are dead in our sins, like the wayward son was. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found (Luke 15:32).

Now through Christ we are made alive. Eph. 2:5: Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ.

We are killed through sin. God tells us what sin is, what kills us. He gives us the HS to help us with our understanding. He didn't give those laws for the dead who do not have Christ, God gave them to us for our benefit. God outlined how to use those laws in the wrong way and how to use them for life abundant. They are for those alive through Christ, not for the spiritual dead.

Only those people who are spiritually dead would refuse to listen to the blessings God gives us through the law. Only those who turn their back on the forgiveness offered by Christ would use them for salvation.


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