Saved by Water

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
thank you for your honesty.

So I am not saved because I was not baptized in the name of Jesus, when I was water baptized; as you believe the word of God teaches? Therefore I do not have the Holy Spirt that bare witness of my salvation or relationship with God? is that correct



Roman 8:16

says The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
My suggestion is pray about it because the bible says the following:

1. Everyone is to obey the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin.
2. It says God will give the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Some people receive the Holy Ghost first, and get water baptized afterward. In other cases the order is reversed.

The word expresses both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are necessary for every group of humanity; Jewish, Gentile, Samaritan. No one was excluded from the requirement of obedience to the command.

As for me, I received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking first. Years later I was water baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Even so my world was falling apart. I was in and out of church. In my turmoil someone said that I needed to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness if I wanted things to change. It was then that I was shown actual scripture confirming the way the apostles water baptized people and why. I was surprised that no one had ever shown me what scripture actually stated. All I knew was that I believed God and wanted to be obedient. So I got water baptized again. This time in the name of the Lord Jesus. I cannot stress enough how my life turned around.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,924
2,749
113
My suggestion is pray about it because the bible says the following:

1. Everyone is to obey the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin.
2. It says God will give the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Some people receive the Holy Ghost first, and get water baptized afterward. In other cases the order is reversed.

The word expresses both water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are necessary for every group of humanity; Jewish, Gentile, Samaritan. No one was excluded from the requirement of obedience to the command.

As for me, I received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking first. Years later I was water baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Even so my world was falling apart. I was in and out of church. In my turmoil someone said that I needed to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness if I wanted things to change. It was then that I was shown actual scripture confirming the way the apostles water baptized people and why. I was surprised that no one had ever shown me what scripture actually stated. All I knew was that I believed God and wanted to be obedient. So I got water baptized again. This time in the name of the Lord Jesus. I cannot stress enough how my life turned around.

I asked you the following question

So I am not saved because I was not baptized in the name of Jesus when I was water baptized; as you believe the word of God teaches? Therefore I do not have the Holy Spirit that bears witness of my salvation or relationship with God? is that correct?

You have said yes . there is nothing more to say. I know that I am saved and have the Holy Spirit in addition I am a minister of pentacostel church where we teach the word of God and hold to the Trinity and have been used in many gifts of the Holy Spirit and have seen dozens saved and filled with the Holy Spirt. You are very much wrong :)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
I asked you the following question

So I am not saved because I was not baptized in the name of Jesus when I was water baptized; as you believe the word of God teaches? Therefore I do not have the Holy Spirit that bears witness of my salvation or relationship with God? is that correct?

You have said yes . there is nothing more to say. I know that I am saved and have the Holy Spirit in addition I am a minister of pentacostel church where we teach the word of God and hold to the Trinity and have been used in many gifts of the Holy Spirit and have seen dozens saved and filled with the Holy Spirt. You are very much wrong :)
As a minister would you agree that Jesus command in reference to water baptism in Matthew 28:19 was in fact obeyed by the apostles?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
@CS1 Why do you laugh at my question? I'm seriously interested to know. The question has nothing to do with why obedience to water baptism is required. I know on that we don't agree. If you don't mind elaborating on your response. That would be great.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
2,923
1,947
113
Holy Spirit received before water baptism.

Acts 10:44-48
44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,924
2,749
113
@CS1 Why do you laugh at my question? I'm seriously interested to know. The question has nothing to do with why obedience to water baptism is required. I know on that we don't agree. If you don't mind elaborating on your response. That would be great.
Jesus said :

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

As a minister of the Gospel, I do that as Jesu said. You do not agree, in fact, you said I am not saved or my baptism is valid because I have not been baptized in the name of Jesus only. In addition, you surely must think the Holy Spirt I have is not of God either, as I have and do pray in tongues and seen the Power of God and those saved at the gifting of the preaching God has called me to do.

So, yes I laughed at your post question. FYI it was Jesus who said to be Baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. If doing so is wrong as you have said, I am in good company because Jesus said to do just that.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
@CS1 Why do you laugh at my question? I'm seriously interested to know. The question has nothing to do with why obedience to water baptism is required. I know on that we don't agree. If you don't mind elaborating on your response. That would be great.
I actually could not believe why you asked @CS1 that queue to start with.

Your question

As a minister would you agree that Jesus command in reference to water baptism in Matthew 28:19 was in fact obeyed by the apostles?
And he has made it clear what Jesus said

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Jesus in V19 DID NOT SAY IN NAME OF JESUS ONLY.

Funny thing is you say the question has nothing to do with why obedience to water baptism is required, yet you say, state that water baptism is required in the name of Jesus only and if it's not done in that way then you are not saved.

I looked back at one your posts concerning your struggle with your Christian life.
As I read it I was saddened.
You were not walking struggling then you sought heLP.
You were already baptised but when you sought help you were asked if you are baptised in the name of Jesus.
You said no and you were told to rebaptised in the name of Jesus only.
That you did and then and you saw the light.
You now believe that you are saved as a result of this baptism.
Sad thing is baptism does not save but you believe you are now.
Your initial confession of faith in the risen Lord Jesus meant nothing.
You were already struggling and looking for an answer.
So now you have a false security that the baptism in Jesus name only saves you.
False security, you were already saves anyway.

So

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Doesn't say Jesus only.
If you say it does then you reject the trinity.
If the apostles have not done it per Matthew then they are doing what Jesus told them to concerning baptism.

No wonder he laughed.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
If the apostles have not done it per Matthew then they are doing what Jesus told them to concerning baptism.
Just do clarify.

"If the apostles have not done it per Matthew then they are NOT doing what Jesus commanded them to do concerning baptism"
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
Jesus said :

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

As a minister of the Gospel, I do that as Jesu said. You do not agree, in fact, you said I am not saved or my baptism is valid because I have not been baptized in the name of Jesus only. In addition, you surely must think the Holy Spirt I have is not of God either, as I have and do pray in tongues and seen the Power of God and those saved at the gifting of the preaching God has called me to do.

So, yes I laughed at your post question. FYI it was Jesus who said to be Baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. If doing so is wrong as you have said, I am in good company because Jesus said to do just that.
I am aware of Jesus' command in that scripture. And seeing how the apostles consistently water baptized shows they obeyed Jesus' command by using His name.

I wasn't sure whether you knew that the forerunners of the Catholic church commanded all churches to start using the phrase rather than continue to obey the command. This happened around 325 A.D. And historical records speak to this.

Have you ever considered that what is stated in Colossians points to this truth?

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Col 2:8-9
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
I actually could not believe why you asked @CS1 that queue to start with.

Your question



And he has made it clear what Jesus said

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Jesus in V19 DID NOT SAY IN NAME OF JESUS ONLY.

Funny thing is you say the question has nothing to do with why obedience to water baptism is required, yet you say, state that water baptism is required in the name of Jesus only and if it's not done in that way then you are not saved.

I looked back at one your posts concerning your struggle with your Christian life.
As I read it I was saddened.
You were not walking struggling then you sought heLP.
You were already baptised but when you sought help you were asked if you are baptised in the name of Jesus.
You said no and you were told to rebaptised in the name of Jesus only.
That you did and then and you saw the light.
You now believe that you are saved as a result of this baptism.
Sad thing is baptism does not save but you believe you are now.
Your initial confession of faith in the risen Lord Jesus meant nothing.
You were already struggling and looking for an answer.
So now you have a false security that the baptism in Jesus name only saves you.
False security, you were already saves anyway.

So

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Doesn't say Jesus only.
If you say it does then you reject the trinity.
If the apostles have not done it per Matthew then they are doing what Jesus told them to concerning baptism.

No wonder he laughed.
I stated that my question pertained to if he believed the apostles baptized people how Jesus said to. We both understood each other's stance on other points.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
I stated that my question pertained to if he believed the apostles baptized people how Jesus said to. We both understood each other's stance on other points.
Yes you did so why ask again?

You used his point of being a minister of a Pentecost church to bait
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
Just do clarify.

"If the apostles have not done it per Matthew then they are NOT doing what Jesus commanded them to do concerning baptism"
Every detailed water baptism states the apostles used the name of the Lord in water baptisms not the phrase stated in Matt. 28:19. That was my point.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,274
4,004
113
Every detailed water baptism states the apostles used the name of the Lord in water baptisms not the phrase stated in Matt. 28:19. That was my point.
You have no point.
You refuse to answer the question proposed many times concerning Matthew.

So let's try again.
Did Jesus say in Matthew, the great commission..

"Baptise in the name of Jesus only?
No he did not.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
CS1 Since you disagreed with the points made in Post #1110. Would you please provide a record of an actual water baptism where the apostles actually baptized using the phrase I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I am not aware of any records that express it.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,924
2,749
113
I am aware of Jesus' command in that scripture. And seeing how the apostles consistently water baptized shows they obeyed Jesus' command by using His name.

I wasn't sure whether you knew that the forerunners of the Catholic church commanded all churches to start using the phrase rather than continue to obey the command. This happened around 325 A.D. And historical records speak to this.

Have you ever considered that what is stated in Colossians points to this truth?

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Col 2:8-9
I know toy are wanting to be right but you are not.
You are saying there is No God the father and no God the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus cry out to himself on the Cross? The Voice from Heaven that said this is My Son whom I AM well please was Jesus throwing HIS voice?

John Bared Record and HE testified that HE Heard a Voice Saw the Spirit of God descend from Heaven and come upon Jesus and remain. You deny the voice that Spoke was not God as Jesus was being baptized? You make these outlandish claims about the catholic church YET at Jesus' very own water Baptism ALL three of the Godhead were present.

You have no answer for that. BUT want to tell others they are not saved. Shame on you!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,924
2,749
113
CS1 Since you disagreed with the points made in Post #1110. Would you please provide a record of an actual water baptism where the apostles actually baptized using the phrase I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I am not aware of any records that express it.

I did in the post-1116 Jesu said to what more do I need? in two Gospels Mark and Matthew :)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
You have no point.
You refuse to answer the question proposed many times concerning Matthew.

So let's try again.
Did Jesus say in Matthew, the great commission..

"Baptise in the name of Jesus only?
No he did not.
I have explained Matthew 28:19 in many posts. Jesus gave the apostles a command and the apostles obeyed that command.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands they baptize in a name that encompasses the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. In Colossians 2:9, we are told that in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead.

The Amplified Bible makes it somewhat clearer: For in Him (in Jesus) the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature]. And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead — Father, Son and Holy Spirit — and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power]. Col 2:9-10 AMP
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,924
2,749
113
I have explained Matthew 28:19 in many posts. Jesus gave the apostles a command and the apostles obeyed that command.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands they baptize in a name that encompasses the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. In Colossians 2:9, we are told that in Jesus dwells all the fulness of the Godhead.

The Amplified Bible makes it somewhat clearer: For in Him (in Jesus) the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature]. And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead — Father, Son and Holy Spirit — and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power]. Col 2:9-10 AMP
The Lord Jesus is more than you or I will ever know on this side of heaven. Yet HE said HE has Father I believe Jesus did and it was not Joseph. YOu do not, and that is your pride and error that you know m0re than Jesus does who Called out to HIS Father.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
2,745
627
113
I know toy are wanting to be right but you are not.
You are saying there is No God the father and no God the Holy Spirit. Did Jesus cry out to himself on the Cross? The Voice from Heaven that said this is My Son whom I AM well please was Jesus throwing HIS voice?

John Bared Record and HE testified that HE Heard a Voice Saw the Spirit of God descend from Heaven and come upon Jesus and remain. You deny the voice that Spoke was not God as Jesus was being baptized? You make these outlandish claims about the catholic church YET at Jesus' very own water Baptism ALL three of the Godhead were present.

You have no answer for that. BUT want to tell others they are not saved. Shame on you!
I have no carnal desire to be right as you claim. And I don't disagree with what occurred at Jesus' baptism. My points are relevant to what the biblical records states concerning how the apostles water baptized people. The points made in reference to the change made by forerunners of the Catholic Church can easily be found if one wishes to fact check what I've stated. There is plenty of documentation in encyclopedias and historical church references.

I close with a sincere suggestion to check those sources. The lack of knowledge concerning such things is not good. I can attest to that myself.