Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture.
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1 thessalonians? *yawn*.
why not continue a few pages to the 2nd letter where he is astounded by the fact they believed in pretrib. then goes on to say why its is IMPOSSIBLE.
i'll help if ya want
who said christian get the wrath in the trib? they're exempt.
wrath is for unbelievers, TRIBULATION is for the church.
why not continue a few pages to the 2nd letter where he is astounded by the fact they believed in pretrib. then goes on to say why its is IMPOSSIBLE.
i'll help if ya want
who said christian get the wrath in the trib? they're exempt.
wrath is for unbelievers, TRIBULATION is for the church.
until you start practising what you preach you're a clanging symbol:
grace and mercy?
Jesus promised you won't break a fingernail?
oh i shiver when i think about the MILLIONS taught the pretrib lie, and i am ashamed for those who are teaching it right now....with FERVOR!
what a disaster.
Once upon a time there was a MYSTERY PLAN B CHURCH.
no one knew about it, it was a MYSTERY.
it was a surprise to God Himself,, since He was taken by surprise when Jesus was rejected.
He quickly devised a Plan B: He would POSTPONE THE KINGDOM, invent a "church age", call a whole pile of gentiles to fill the GAP.....mercifully blind the jews for 2,000 years, then at the end of time (but not really the end), He would remove the Plan B church (which He gives to His Son Jesus in heaven and they have a 7 year wedding party)....
meanwhile back on planet earth, PLAN A is now resumed: God deals with the jews Himself. they are His wife, and Jesus is busy enjoying His bride elsewhere.
something we're not told happens...maybe the jews get their fingernails hurt in the trib as a way to WAKE THEM UP and now God finally has HIS WIFE, and the other God, Jesus, has His bride, the MYSTERY GENTILE CHURCH (which inexplicably has a few jews in it...oh well....God is confused anyways).
no matter WHAT HAPPENS, God has to keep ISRAEL AND THE "THE MYSTERY CHURCH" SEPARATE.
HE'S JUGGLING TWO COVENANTS, two peoples, and two plans.
there are 2 gods also, since one gets the MYSTERY PLAN B CHURCH, and the other gets the JEWISH WIFE (under Moses?)
we're not sure who is the BIGSHOT during the millennium (jew or gentile)...we think its the jews since they HAVE AN UNFUFILLED PROMISE, and after all...didn't some reject Jesus (#2 god) and crucify Him? we can't have that, since ROMANS 11 SAYS EVERY JEW WHO EVER LIVED MUST BE SAVED.
so we'll add a resurrection where the jews get temporary......
WHAT RUBBISH AND BLASPHEMY.
grace and mercy?
Jesus promised you won't break a fingernail?
oh i shiver when i think about the MILLIONS taught the pretrib lie, and i am ashamed for those who are teaching it right now....with FERVOR!
what a disaster.
Once upon a time there was a MYSTERY PLAN B CHURCH.
no one knew about it, it was a MYSTERY.
it was a surprise to God Himself,, since He was taken by surprise when Jesus was rejected.
He quickly devised a Plan B: He would POSTPONE THE KINGDOM, invent a "church age", call a whole pile of gentiles to fill the GAP.....mercifully blind the jews for 2,000 years, then at the end of time (but not really the end), He would remove the Plan B church (which He gives to His Son Jesus in heaven and they have a 7 year wedding party)....
meanwhile back on planet earth, PLAN A is now resumed: God deals with the jews Himself. they are His wife, and Jesus is busy enjoying His bride elsewhere.
something we're not told happens...maybe the jews get their fingernails hurt in the trib as a way to WAKE THEM UP and now God finally has HIS WIFE, and the other God, Jesus, has His bride, the MYSTERY GENTILE CHURCH (which inexplicably has a few jews in it...oh well....God is confused anyways).
no matter WHAT HAPPENS, God has to keep ISRAEL AND THE "THE MYSTERY CHURCH" SEPARATE.
HE'S JUGGLING TWO COVENANTS, two peoples, and two plans.
there are 2 gods also, since one gets the MYSTERY PLAN B CHURCH, and the other gets the JEWISH WIFE (under Moses?)
we're not sure who is the BIGSHOT during the millennium (jew or gentile)...we think its the jews since they HAVE AN UNFUFILLED PROMISE, and after all...didn't some reject Jesus (#2 god) and crucify Him? we can't have that, since ROMANS 11 SAYS EVERY JEW WHO EVER LIVED MUST BE SAVED.
so we'll add a resurrection where the jews get temporary......
WHAT RUBBISH AND BLASPHEMY.
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1 thessalonians? *yawn*.
why not continue a few pages to the 2nd letter where he is astounded by the fact they believed in pretrib. then goes on to say why its is IMPOSSIBLE.
i'll help if ya want
who said christian get the wrath in the trib? they're exempt.
wrath is for unbelievers, TRIBULATION is for the church.
why not continue a few pages to the 2nd letter where he is astounded by the fact they believed in pretrib. then goes on to say why its is IMPOSSIBLE.
i'll help if ya want
who said christian get the wrath in the trib? they're exempt.
wrath is for unbelievers, TRIBULATION is for the church.
The Tribulation is for Israel and also the children of disobedience. and it has nothing to do with the church (those that have believed upon Christ both Jew and Gentile). The church will continue to have tribulations, persecutions, anguish, trials and sufferings as they have from its inception to the time it will be caught up (over 2,000 years and not some spiritual meaning for millennium). The saints of the Tribulation are not the saints of the OT who are all dead, nor of the NT church because they have been taken up and caught away with Christ in the clouds of the air, where the judgment (bema seat) of believers takes place.
Go ahead and explain (2Thes 2:1,2) before you get into (v.3ff). What is Paul referring to concerning, 'nor by letter as from us, as that day of Christ is at hand'? If you try to twist or throw in your own little screwed up commentary, you will be found out because there is a specific thing that Paul is addressing here with these believers. Don't copy and paste from someone else from your extensive file, in your own words please.
OH YUCK.
suprises? you either NEVER read the Bible for yourself, or you ascribe authority to that traitor Cyrus Scofield and use his notes: it's PAINFULLY CLEAR.
ready?
Amillennialists know to be ready, first for their own deaths (that's the end), then for the trib (IT IS WRITTEN), then the END..... since when Jesus comes THAT'S IT.
JUDGMENT AND ETERNITY. THE END.
not some messed up frankenstein scenario invented by the Pharisees and fed intraveneously through the SBC and Scofield for sci-fi lovers and cowards (remove me from the earth so i don't get hurt).
sorry, that's the way it is....AMERICA NEEDED A FALSE ESCHATOLOGICAL SCENARIO, AND one that would agree to leave jews OUT of the "mystery church"....if you can't figure out why: too bad.
BUSTED.
welcome to REAL antisemitism.
there's PLAN A: but POSTPONED, for the jews (who cares if we know what a jew is, we'll just say that)
.....the jews might get HURT in the trib, but they'll GET SAVED (because there's an OUTSTANDING UNFULFILLED PROMISE FOR THEM....we don't know what it is, but apparently IT WASN'T JESUS) - who cares about Him for jews. He has his own mystery church. THE OTHER GOD gets the jews.
and, well, as for those OTHER disobedient people, TOO BAD FOR THEM. church and Holy Spirit are GONE SOMEWHERE. blind jews get truth without either in the trib,, but THOSE OTHER people don;t.......(OR....DO THEY?....yes, we dispensationalists have had to invent A NEW KIND OF SAINT, since Scripture says they are in the trib, but WE LIE AND SAY THEY'RE NOT....so we have A PLAN C CHURCH AS WELL)
and PLAN B, God's mysterious cobbled answer to make a church when the jews surprised Him by rejecting little god jesus)
you're going to answer for this toxin Red. but you don't seem to care.
but........what? why the sudden interruption in God's pattern?
what? why does this MYSTERY CHURCH vanish? SHE'S SO CLEAN SHE CAN'T GET BLOODY LIKE ALL THE OTHER CHRISTIANS BEGINNING WITH CHRIST HIMSELF?
ya.....i think that's it. she can't get hurt. she's SPECIAL IN 2012.
but in reality, SATAN gave the SBC and others that LIE, so they'd GIVE EVERY NICKEL THEY HAVE TO SET UP THE BABYLONIAN WHORE, cuz after all....isnt that what LEFT BEHIND IS ALL ABOUT?
the word MILLENNIUM doesn't occur in scripture.
you're the answer man on pretrib and the LITERAL 1,000 YEAR KINGDOM ON EARTH.
explain to me who is alive during it, what happnes during it, what kind of bodies they have, and.....what happnes RIGHT AT THE END OF IT?
don't forget....it is LITERAL, to the minute. so every single person alive during it, WILL KNOW TO THE NANOSECOND WHEN THE FINAL FINAL FINAL WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT IS.
no surprises...remember?
and is their killing during it? who is ruling from Jerusalem with Jesus? THE MYSTERY CHURCH OR THE JEWS?
you have to have an answer Red...SHOW ME.
oh.
so we have a 3rd class/species of SAINTS.
how do they get saved with NO CHURCH, NO HOLY SPIRIT?
what's the NEXT FALSE GOSPEL....what do THEY DO do get saved Red? get hurt?
did they take the mark?
don't tell me how to answer.
i'll do as i choose. you are so arrogant with this i can hardly answer....but i will. not for you. for the ones you're lying to. look at your disgraceful and embarassing threats to "out" me. its excruciating.
i'm ashamed for you.
YOU HAVE ANSWERS TO PROVIDE, which you are UNABLE TO DO.
what's this gimmick?
'nor by letter as from us, as that day of Christ is at hand'?
read it yourself and understand it or not. you're on your own.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
suprises? you either NEVER read the Bible for yourself, or you ascribe authority to that traitor Cyrus Scofield and use his notes: it's PAINFULLY CLEAR.
ready?
Amillennialists know to be ready, first for their own deaths (that's the end), then for the trib (IT IS WRITTEN), then the END..... since when Jesus comes THAT'S IT.
JUDGMENT AND ETERNITY. THE END.
not some messed up frankenstein scenario invented by the Pharisees and fed intraveneously through the SBC and Scofield for sci-fi lovers and cowards (remove me from the earth so i don't get hurt).
sorry, that's the way it is....AMERICA NEEDED A FALSE ESCHATOLOGICAL SCENARIO, AND one that would agree to leave jews OUT of the "mystery church"....if you can't figure out why: too bad.
BUSTED.
welcome to REAL antisemitism.
there's PLAN A: but POSTPONED, for the jews (who cares if we know what a jew is, we'll just say that)
.....the jews might get HURT in the trib, but they'll GET SAVED (because there's an OUTSTANDING UNFULFILLED PROMISE FOR THEM....we don't know what it is, but apparently IT WASN'T JESUS) - who cares about Him for jews. He has his own mystery church. THE OTHER GOD gets the jews.
and, well, as for those OTHER disobedient people, TOO BAD FOR THEM. church and Holy Spirit are GONE SOMEWHERE. blind jews get truth without either in the trib,, but THOSE OTHER people don;t.......(OR....DO THEY?....yes, we dispensationalists have had to invent A NEW KIND OF SAINT, since Scripture says they are in the trib, but WE LIE AND SAY THEY'RE NOT....so we have A PLAN C CHURCH AS WELL)
and PLAN B, God's mysterious cobbled answer to make a church when the jews surprised Him by rejecting little god jesus)
you're going to answer for this toxin Red. but you don't seem to care.
but........what? why the sudden interruption in God's pattern?
what? why does this MYSTERY CHURCH vanish? SHE'S SO CLEAN SHE CAN'T GET BLOODY LIKE ALL THE OTHER CHRISTIANS BEGINNING WITH CHRIST HIMSELF?
ya.....i think that's it. she can't get hurt. she's SPECIAL IN 2012.
but in reality, SATAN gave the SBC and others that LIE, so they'd GIVE EVERY NICKEL THEY HAVE TO SET UP THE BABYLONIAN WHORE, cuz after all....isnt that what LEFT BEHIND IS ALL ABOUT?
the word MILLENNIUM doesn't occur in scripture.
you're the answer man on pretrib and the LITERAL 1,000 YEAR KINGDOM ON EARTH.
explain to me who is alive during it, what happnes during it, what kind of bodies they have, and.....what happnes RIGHT AT THE END OF IT?
don't forget....it is LITERAL, to the minute. so every single person alive during it, WILL KNOW TO THE NANOSECOND WHEN THE FINAL FINAL FINAL WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT IS.
no surprises...remember?
and is their killing during it? who is ruling from Jerusalem with Jesus? THE MYSTERY CHURCH OR THE JEWS?
you have to have an answer Red...SHOW ME.
oh.
so we have a 3rd class/species of SAINTS.
how do they get saved with NO CHURCH, NO HOLY SPIRIT?
what's the NEXT FALSE GOSPEL....what do THEY DO do get saved Red? get hurt?
did they take the mark?
don't tell me how to answer.
i'll do as i choose. you are so arrogant with this i can hardly answer....but i will. not for you. for the ones you're lying to. look at your disgraceful and embarassing threats to "out" me. its excruciating.
i'm ashamed for you.
YOU HAVE ANSWERS TO PROVIDE, which you are UNABLE TO DO.
what's this gimmick?
'nor by letter as from us, as that day of Christ is at hand'?
read it yourself and understand it or not. you're on your own.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
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is it ok to paste from the NLT?
2 Thessalonians 2
Events prior to the Lord’s Second Coming
1Now, dear brothers and sisters,a let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed—the one who brings destruction
he's talking about pretrib teachers.
fake letters.
lying spirits.
false teachers.
JESUS ISN'T COMING UNTIL AFTER THE ESCHATON AND TRIBULATION.
not for you or anybody else.
and when He does THAT'S IT.
JUDGMENT.
OVER.
2 Thessalonians 2
Events prior to the Lord’s Second Coming
1Now, dear brothers and sisters,a let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. 2Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. 3Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed—the one who brings destruction
he's talking about pretrib teachers.
fake letters.
lying spirits.
false teachers.
JESUS ISN'T COMING UNTIL AFTER THE ESCHATON AND TRIBULATION.
not for you or anybody else.
and when He does THAT'S IT.
JUDGMENT.
OVER.
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Now what does it matter if we would be raptured before or after Tribulation??.. I don't care!, and i don't think all of you should waste your time about that.. Just tell Jesus to teach you what he wants you to learn..
NOW GO TO BED ALL OF YOU!...
OR DO I NEED TO GET MY WHIP?
NOW GO TO BED ALL OF YOU!...
OR DO I NEED TO GET MY WHIP?
it's morning here, i just got up.
here's why it matters:
the theology (what God says about himself and His Plan) that requires a PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE is false on EVERY count.
it distorts every single thing God said, Planned and is doing, and who He is. it doesn't just say, oh, Jesus is coming at such and such a time....IT CHANGES EVERYTHING.
its is deliberate, and is given to sift the church and cause the "endtimes" to come in, THE FALSE TIME, the time of deception.
that's why it matters.
but this sounds like a conspiracy, so i have to talk about that part of it on one thread. Still said i could have one thread for that.
yay!
zone
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No zone. He's talking about people who were teaching that the Lord's day had already begun. "that day" is the day that Christ returns TO THE EARTH to set up the millennial kingdom. Some were teaching that the day of the Lord had already come, and therefore Christ's return for the church had already happened. Paul is telling them that everything is still future, and it still is. Christ will first return to gather the church, then the trib will start, then Christ will return to the earth (the Lord's Day).
hi shroom
yes, he is telling them NOT to believe the "rapture" (resurrection) or Lord's Day (pretribbers can't clarify what that is, they think it's a Day, but 1,000 literal years long) had already taken place.
BUT: he then proceeds to tell them WHEN Christ will return. he clearly and carefully lays out the eschaton, and tells them Jesus does NOT return AT ALL until AFTER the son of perdition has appeared. this chapter is a direct MATCH TO REV 20, the big millennial issue.
he says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about a pretribulation rapture, that is eisegesis.
the first letter was about the HOW (the change/resurrection - what it will be like), the second letter is CORRECTIVE, and is about the WHEN, since they had believed it had already happened.
it is EASILY shown there is NO literal 1,000 year Kingdom on earth, one way, by simply believing Daniel 9 is fulfilled.
the most CERTAIN come from the lips of CHRIST HIMSELF
yes, he is telling them NOT to believe the "rapture" (resurrection) or Lord's Day (pretribbers can't clarify what that is, they think it's a Day, but 1,000 literal years long) had already taken place.
BUT: he then proceeds to tell them WHEN Christ will return. he clearly and carefully lays out the eschaton, and tells them Jesus does NOT return AT ALL until AFTER the son of perdition has appeared. this chapter is a direct MATCH TO REV 20, the big millennial issue.
he says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about a pretribulation rapture, that is eisegesis.
the first letter was about the HOW (the change/resurrection - what it will be like), the second letter is CORRECTIVE, and is about the WHEN, since they had believed it had already happened.
it is EASILY shown there is NO literal 1,000 year Kingdom on earth, one way, by simply believing Daniel 9 is fulfilled.
the most CERTAIN come from the lips of CHRIST HIMSELF
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[ZONE TO SHROOM:
hi shroom
yes, he is telling them NOT to believe the "rapture" (resurrection) or Lord's Day (pretribbers can't clarify what that is, they think it's a Day, but 1,000 literal years long) had already taken place.
BUT: he then proceeds to tell them WHEN Christ will return. he clearly and carefully lays out the eschaton, and tells them Jesus does NOT return AT ALL until AFTER the son of perdition has appeared. this chapter is a direct MATCH TO REV 20, the big millennial issue.
he says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about a pretribulation rapture, that is *eisegesis.]
exactly what was the SOMETHING that should not have been taught Red? what was IT?
please be specific, using both letters. i'll help if you like.
the first letter was about the HOW (the change/resurrection - what it will be like), the second letter is CORRECTIVE, and is about the WHEN, since they had believed it had already happened.
it is EASILY shown there is NO literal 1,000 year Kingdom on earth, one way, by simply believing Daniel 9 is fulfilled.
Daniel 9 is not fulfilled?
this decides it all. PROVE IT.
please post the passage and exegete. take all the time, and use any resource you like. ANY.
thank you.
stubborn? unlike you, friend, i spent hundreds and hundreds of sleepless nights getting this straight.
please prove Daniel 9 IS NOT FULFILLED, from scripture.
do not use unbelieving jews as proof. unless that's all you have. which it is.
you might.
i won't.
the most CERTAIN come from the lips of CHRIST HIMSELF...once you've shown your evidence, we'll move on to the words of Jesus CHRIST HIMSELF.
hi shroom
yes, he is telling them NOT to believe the "rapture" (resurrection) or Lord's Day (pretribbers can't clarify what that is, they think it's a Day, but 1,000 literal years long) had already taken place.
BUT: he then proceeds to tell them WHEN Christ will return. he clearly and carefully lays out the eschaton, and tells them Jesus does NOT return AT ALL until AFTER the son of perdition has appeared. this chapter is a direct MATCH TO REV 20, the big millennial issue.
he says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about a pretribulation rapture, that is *eisegesis.]
exactly what was the SOMETHING that should not have been taught Red? what was IT?
please be specific, using both letters. i'll help if you like.
the first letter was about the HOW (the change/resurrection - what it will be like), the second letter is CORRECTIVE, and is about the WHEN, since they had believed it had already happened.
it is EASILY shown there is NO literal 1,000 year Kingdom on earth, one way, by simply believing Daniel 9 is fulfilled.
Daniel 9 is not fulfilled?
this decides it all. PROVE IT.
please post the passage and exegete. take all the time, and use any resource you like. ANY.
thank you.
stubborn? unlike you, friend, i spent hundreds and hundreds of sleepless nights getting this straight.
please prove Daniel 9 IS NOT FULFILLED, from scripture.
do not use unbelieving jews as proof. unless that's all you have. which it is.
you might.
i won't.
the most CERTAIN come from the lips of CHRIST HIMSELF...once you've shown your evidence, we'll move on to the words of Jesus CHRIST HIMSELF.
The rapture will occur in the blink of an eye, in a moment. It won't take any time at all. The Lord's Day is Christ returning TO earth to fight armageddon. The millennial kingdom will come after armageddon, and will last 1000 years.
Yes. The Lord's Day will not occur until after the great apostacy, and the trib. The rapture will precede both.
Rev 20 is discussing the millennial kingdom. This will occur after armageddon. Satan will be bound, and the first resurrection will happen. All OT believers will get up, as well as those killed during the trib.
He is telling them that the Lord's Day has not started. It is still future. Therefore, the rapture is future as well.
Both 1 and 2 Thess are doctrine.
But Daniel 9 is not fulfilled.
Where?
Yes. The Lord's Day will not occur until after the great apostacy, and the trib. The rapture will precede both.
Rev 20 is discussing the millennial kingdom. This will occur after armageddon. Satan will be bound, and the first resurrection will happen. All OT believers will get up, as well as those killed during the trib.
He is telling them that the Lord's Day has not started. It is still future. Therefore, the rapture is future as well.
Both 1 and 2 Thess are doctrine.
But Daniel 9 is not fulfilled.
Where?
what was in the letter Red?
what was the false belief they held?
i asked you, and you said you know.
this is related to your insistence that Paul taught pretribulation rapture.
please use both letters and show what they got wrong, and how he set it straight and how HE TAUGHT THEM TO EXPECT A PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE.
this is your responsibility as a teacher of this doctrine.
prove it using pauls' letters, or ANY OTHER SCRIPTURES.
what was the false belief they held?
i asked you, and you said you know.
this is related to your insistence that Paul taught pretribulation rapture.
please use both letters and show what they got wrong, and how he set it straight and how HE TAUGHT THEM TO EXPECT A PRETRIBULATION RAPTURE.
this is your responsibility as a teacher of this doctrine.
prove it using pauls' letters, or ANY OTHER SCRIPTURES.
that's right.
let's look at it:
1 Corinthians 15:52
New International Version (©1984)
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
New Living Translation (©2007)
It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
English Standard Version (©2001)
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
and?
where's the pretrib doctrine in any of that letter?
this is the Second Advent, the Final Judgment. nothing after this but eternity.
easily proven.
nice idea.
prove it please.
when does this happen? and what happens AFTER IT?
1 Corinthians 15:52
New International Version (©1984)
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
show me where, after the LAST TRUMPET there's a literal 1,000 year set up in Jerusalem.
show me Jesus saying it.
here's John saying he was taken in the Spirit (VISIONS) to The Lord's Day (did he leave prison on Patmos?): john was shown everything from THE LORD'S DAY (2nd Advent) forwards and backwards to COMFORT US.
you will need to show that he EVER taught a literal 1,000 year reign during ANY of that time. show it happening now (amillennialism using one thousand years as God used it: symbolizing FULLNESS) OR in the future as literal. you will find it NOWHERE AS LITERAL - IT'S impossible FOR IT TO BE A LITERAL 1,000 YEARS. IMPOSSIBLE.
Rev 20 is your ONLY hope, and that is easily shown to NOT be about an earthly reign: (btw....if Daniel 9 is not fulfilled, what's john saying in red?)
Revelation 1
9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book
so we agree paul taught this?
(we need not yet agree on how long The Lord's Day is or if it is on earth for 1,000 years yet.
we just need to agree if Paul taught The Lord's Day comes AFTER the apsotasy and trib.)
you have to prove this.
is this your proof?
1 Thessalonians 4
The Coming of the Lord
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
where's the pretrib?
this is ONLY comforting them that their dead loved ones ARE WITH THE LORD.
and that when He comes they will be reunited.
it says NOTHING WHATOSEVER about a pretrib rapture. zero.
and....what's he talking about here?
1 Thessalonians 5
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
is this your proof?
because paul said we are not appointed to wrath?
he says we are apponited to salvation.
do you think The Lord will mistake His own and pour wrath on them?
fables.
uh....ye-e-e-e-es.......(?)
but the "rapture" is the The 2nd Advent and change (resurrection).
The Lord's Day is exactly what it says it is.
JUDGMENT.
why do you say it isn't?
what hasn't happened in that passge yet?
let's look at it:
1 Corinthians 15:52
New International Version (©1984)
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
New Living Translation (©2007)
It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed.
English Standard Version (©2001)
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
and?
where's the pretrib doctrine in any of that letter?
this is the Second Advent, the Final Judgment. nothing after this but eternity.
easily proven.
nice idea.
prove it please.
when does this happen? and what happens AFTER IT?
1 Corinthians 15:52
New International Version (©1984)
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
show me where, after the LAST TRUMPET there's a literal 1,000 year set up in Jerusalem.
show me Jesus saying it.
here's John saying he was taken in the Spirit (VISIONS) to The Lord's Day (did he leave prison on Patmos?): john was shown everything from THE LORD'S DAY (2nd Advent) forwards and backwards to COMFORT US.
you will need to show that he EVER taught a literal 1,000 year reign during ANY of that time. show it happening now (amillennialism using one thousand years as God used it: symbolizing FULLNESS) OR in the future as literal. you will find it NOWHERE AS LITERAL - IT'S impossible FOR IT TO BE A LITERAL 1,000 YEARS. IMPOSSIBLE.
Rev 20 is your ONLY hope, and that is easily shown to NOT be about an earthly reign: (btw....if Daniel 9 is not fulfilled, what's john saying in red?)
Revelation 1
9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book
so we agree paul taught this?
(we need not yet agree on how long The Lord's Day is or if it is on earth for 1,000 years yet.
we just need to agree if Paul taught The Lord's Day comes AFTER the apsotasy and trib.)
you have to prove this.
is this your proof?
1 Thessalonians 4
The Coming of the Lord
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
where's the pretrib?
this is ONLY comforting them that their dead loved ones ARE WITH THE LORD.
and that when He comes they will be reunited.
it says NOTHING WHATOSEVER about a pretrib rapture. zero.
and....what's he talking about here?
1 Thessalonians 5
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
is this your proof?
because paul said we are not appointed to wrath?
he says we are apponited to salvation.
do you think The Lord will mistake His own and pour wrath on them?
fables.
uh....ye-e-e-e-es.......(?)
but the "rapture" is the The 2nd Advent and change (resurrection).
The Lord's Day is exactly what it says it is.
JUDGMENT.
why do you say it isn't?
what hasn't happened in that passge yet?
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