Seeking Biblical contradictions.

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watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#21
No one has ascended into heaven. They were all caught up by the Lord. Only Jesus can ascend into heaven.

That's exactly where I thought you'd go, therefore "catch me" in a false statement.
Robo was trying to tell you that nowhere in scriptures cam you find that enoch was taken to heaven.
Hebrew 11... enoch was translated and did not taste death...he was not found.
Gen 5: enoch wad taken by God and wad not found...

Nowhere it say... he was taken to heaven..
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,003
760
113
36
Australia
#22
Robo was trying to tell you that nowhere in scriptures cam you find that enoch was taken to heaven.
Hebrew 11... enoch was translated and did not taste death...he was not found.
Gen 5: enoch wad taken by God and wad not found...

Nowhere it say... he was taken to heaven..
Where was he taken?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,697
2,562
113
#25
I don't understand your answer. "Caught up by the Lord" to where?
Another catch you moment...caught up to meet the Lord in the air to be with Him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,697
2,562
113
#26
Robo was trying to tell you that nowhere in scriptures cam you find that enoch was taken to heaven.
Hebrew 11... enoch was translated and did not taste death...he was not found.
Gen 5: enoch wad taken by God and wad not found...

Nowhere it say... he was taken to heaven..
Then where did the Lord take him too? He was not found of men.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,697
2,562
113
#27
Robo was trying to tell you that nowhere in scriptures cam you find that enoch was taken to heaven.
Hebrew 11... enoch was translated and did not taste death...he was not found.
Gen 5: enoch wad taken by God and wad not found...

Nowhere it say... he was taken to heaven..
Where is God? In heaven? Enoch was taken by God...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,617
7,710
113
#30
John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
This is one of the most MISiNTERPRETED verses in the Bible. And it has also been corrupted in the Critical Text and the modern versions.

CRITICAL TEXT (mutilated verse)
καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς, ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. [ὁ ὤν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ omitted]

RECEIVED TEXT
καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ὁ ὤν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ.
Literal rendering: And no man has gone up into Heaven if not the [One] out of Heaven having come down, [even] the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

KING JAMES BIBLE
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Firstly, what is the context of this verse? Jesus was teaching Nicodemus the absolute necessity of the New Birth, and speaking about heavenly things. Christ went on to assure him that only He who had come down from Heaven could testify to these heavenly things which He not only knew but had also seen.

It is in this context that Christ speaks of His UNIQUE ASCENSION into Heaven. He is prophesying about Himself, that after His death, burial, and resurrection, He would ascend to Heaven as the resurrected one who had come down from Heaven.

But He did not stop there. He added something at the end to show that He is God. While the Son of Man is on earth, He is also in Heaven in the Spirit. So Christ was always in two realms at the same time.

Therefore this is not a denial of the ascension of Enoch and Elijah (which almost everyone concludes) but it is a revelation of the uniqueness of the Son of God who is also the Son of Man.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,697
2,562
113
#31
This is one of the most MISiNTERPRETED verses in the Bible. And it has also been corrupted in the Critical Text and the modern versions.

CRITICAL TEXT (mutilated verse)
καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς, ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. [ὁ ὤν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ omitted]

RECEIVED TEXT
καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ὁ ὤν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ.
Literal rendering: And no man has gone up into Heaven if not the [One] out of Heaven having come down, [even] the Son of Man who is in Heaven.

KING JAMES BIBLE
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Firstly, what is the context of this verse? Jesus was teaching Nicodemus the absolute necessity of the New Birth, and speaking about heavenly things. Christ went on to assure him that only He who had come down from Heaven could testify to these heavenly things which He not only knew but had also seen.

It is in this context that Christ speaks of His UNIQUE ASCENSION into Heaven. He is prophesying about Himself, that after His death, burial, and resurrection, He would ascend to Heaven as the resurrected one who had come down from Heaven.

But He did not stop there. He added something at the end to show that He is God. While the Son of Man is on earth, He is also in Heaven in the Spirit. So Christ was always in two realms at the same time.

Therefore this is not a denial of the ascension of Enoch and Elijah (which almost everyone concludes) but it is a revelation of the uniqueness of the Son of God who is also the Son of Man.
I can get that just by reading the KJV.😀
 
Jan 4, 2020
1,506
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washburn Tn
#32
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
I see no Contradictions in what you wrote. there is no contradictions that GOD spoke anyway, It is how we look at things that make them look that way ,But are not contradictions , Our minds do not see what GOD is saying sometimes
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#33
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
Hi there, good question, one I've spent a fair amount of time on myself. For clarity's sake, my belief is scriptures do not contradict scriptures. John 17: 17 Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth. I believe that.

Offering 2 pieces of evidence, Hebrews 11, and 2 Chronicles 21.

In Hebrews 11, Paul is speaking of those who have died~ not yet receiving the promise. He mentions Enoch by name. Now why would Paul throw him in with the rest if he were not dead like the rest? He wouldn't. Enoch was translated or transferred, to another place on earth. (possibly saving his life from danger at that time I'm speculating)

In 2 Chronicles, Elijah writes a letter to a wicked king, after he had been taken up, after he'd given his mantel to Elisha. (He was taken up, or transported to a different place on earth, taking him out of the way so Elisha could take his place (with a double portion)
There are different levels of heaven, one being where the birds fly.
These are my opinions, I'm a searcher for truth not a Bible scholar. Blessings~
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,582
10,556
113
#34
Also, "And as it is appointed unto man once to die, but after this the judgment."
since i was a child i wondered if this means Enoch & Elijah - neither of whom tasted death - will be the two witnesses, and then die at their appointed time, to be raised again.

but it was pointed out to me, that those who are alive and remain will be caught up in the air with Him. if they are appointed also to die, then in being transformed they must also experience a kind of death. so Enoch & Elijah in being translated may fulfill the passage likewise.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
31,582
10,556
113
#35
Should we start a new thread for thisvfollow up question?
In hebrews 11, the author gave emphasis that enoch did not taste death for he was taken by God...
Why he didnt with regards to elijah?
it's written how Elijah wished for death.

how close is it to tasting death, to wish for it? :unsure:
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
12,697
2,562
113
#36
since i was a child i wondered if this means Enoch & Elijah - neither of whom tasted death - will be the two witnesses, and then die at their appointed time, to be raised again.

but it was pointed out to me, that those who are alive and remain will be caught up in the air with Him. if they are appointed also to die, then in being transformed they must also experience a kind of death. so Enoch & Elijah in being translated may fulfill the passage likewise.
I believe Enoch is that picture of the raptured Church, who will be alive and remain when they are caught up. The Hebrew passage is a general rule about man. God has made exceptions.
 

Sumerian

New member
Sep 5, 2021
3
0
1
#37
Seeking answers for biblical contradictions.

John 3: 13 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch walked with God2 after he fathered Methuselah 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not,3 for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
This is problematic. Jesus states that no one ascended to and descended from heaven, except himself, but obviously Elijah and Enoch both ascended to heaven. There are many such contradictory statements throughout Scripture, but hardly anyone knows how to answer them. We should always question things when they aren't coherent and consistent.
 

Sumerian

New member
Sep 5, 2021
3
0
1
#38
I do not seek to "tear down an entire structure." I seek to strengthen my faith. I seek answers for that whenever I find seeming scriptural contradictions. I hope some answers are here.
I encourage you to continue to question things that bother you. Don't seek for confirmation bias, seek for truth no matter where it takes you spiritually.
 

rayzor

Well-known member
Aug 20, 2021
1,813
290
83
#40
"Catch you" in what?

How does your answer correlate with John 3: 13, No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
Proverbs 30:4 who has ascended into heaven or descended?Who has gathered the wind in his fists?Who has bound the waters in his garment?Who has established all the ends of the earth?What is his name & his sons name can u tell Me?