SHE WAS HEALED OF HER AFFLICTION

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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,909
184
63
#21
I would think we would search for the spiritual meaning as the gospel hid in temporal healing.

All temporal healings (all men eventually die) are used as parables to preach the gospel. These are a series of parables in respect to the power of the gospel beginning with `Be of good courage, child, thy sins have been forgiven thee.'

Those words brought contempt to the outward Jew not born of the Spirit of Christ. So for a demonstration of the work of Christ to forgive sin, the Spirit of Christ in the man was moved miraculously walk. Demonstrating we walk by faith the unseen will of God not after the imagination of the one being healed.

He uses the blind to represent the spiritual blind as the effects of the gospel enlighten the eyes of the heart. Giving them the faith to walk after Christ, to be healed .Not a faith coming from the clay, (shape me heal me )

The your faith below was the faith of Christ (our new faith) that comes from hearing it did work in them .It was not of them as if they moved God turning things upside down .

Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Healing again is used to represent a certain aspect of the gospel (not the temporal healing).

As they went out, behold, they brought to him a dumb man possessed with a devil.And when the devil was cast out, the dumb spake: and the multitudes marvelled, saying, It was never so seen in Israel. Mat 9:33

It was his ministry that the spiritual blind might see and the spiritually deaf might hear the gospel .Those spiritually dead in the trespasses might be raised to new spirit life.

The woman was moved by the Spirit of Christ to touch Christ, not of her own self lest and man boast in vain or false pride.

God is under no law that says he must heal in a temporal way.All healing are of God in that way he does shows us the common grace given to all . Others in the crowd were not moved to both will and do the good pleasure of God. It’s never about the temporal healing. They point to the eternal gospel. Blood in that parable is used to represent the spirit essence of life.

Again we look for the gospel message in represent to that not seen the eternal hearings..

And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.
And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Mat 9:27

It’s like when John was in prison and doubted and he sent those to ask if he was the Christ. Not the one to deliver from the temporal impeding situation death of the body..Jesus used many metaphor to preach the gospel the focus of the temporal healing.

We walk by faith . When men do not mix faith ,Christ's as it is written in what they do see or hear then they make the healing about the flesh making men into gods in the likeness of men.


Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

We do not preach the temporal healing as the gospel . That would be for those who require as a sign before the believe or exercise, work out the faith in view. We do not work to gain it,it works in us to move us . Like the woman with the blood issue the faith of Christ worked in her to both will and do the good pleasure of God as a imputed uprightness. Its the faith that alone comes from hearing God it worked in Rehab and Abraham as it works in us today. No difference the same way he purifies all hearts by faith .
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#22
Just heard this morning "When we label people., we give ourselves permission to discredit them and even hate them." God loves everyone. God so loved the world. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
As true as that first post -- Not. Even.

If God loves everyone, I don't want the "love" he gave to everyone but Noah's family, the Pharaoh, Pharaoh's army, the previous inhabitants of the Promise Land, the rich man who hoped Lazarus would wet his lips while he burned in hell's fire, or Judas.

And, you're playing the victim card with all that "labeling" psychobabble again. God uses labels. "Vipers." "Whitewashed Sepulchers." "Den of thieves." Stop believing everything you hear. Stop playing games.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#23
Its somewhat humorous that people are liking your post here as if to say, "Yay! Suffering!" I only hope that your usage of these verses in such a manner does not rob someone of the hope that Christ offers them. I hope that your post does not rob someone of that mustard seed size of faith that they need to be healed because they are "suffering and therefore it must be God's will."

What hope have we robbed people of, when we tell them it is God's will that they suffer? What faith have we dismantled when we come in agreement with the age old saying that life is a...[expletive] and then you die? Is God not our deliverer? You speak folly of those you oppose yet yourself commit theft with your own doctrines. That is truly heart breaking. What hope do we offer the sick, the lame, the diseased and the oppressed when we put forth a doctrine that simply says to endure?

No. Have faith, believe in God the lover of your soul! There is deliverance. There is healing. Look to God and no other. For in Him is our healing found.
Why believe in God at all if he requires us NOT to rob someone of what he wills? If God is so weak that he needs us to do anything, he's not God!

And what hope do you offer when you teach God doesn't want anyone to suffer? Good grief! What do you think Jesus was doing for those 33 years? Shouldn't God have stopped Cain from causing Abel to suffer? Don't you think he should have stopped the rains, instead of causing a worldwide flood? Don't you think he should have stopped Satan from messing with Job? Don't you think he should have given David the crown without all those years of running away from Saul? Don't you think he should have not blinded Paul, or had him beaten, chained, put in prison, almost die in a shipwreck? How about John? The man was cast out from his own land for decades!

What faith is being dismantled here? WORD OF FAITH crap! That's what is being dismantled. Not God's word! Not God! This lie you promote!

There is deliverance. Deliverance from this man-made hokey-pokey religion that cannot even prove itself any which way from Sunday!
 
Dec 28, 2016
6,000
251
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#24
Why believe in God at all if he requires us NOT to rob someone of what he wills? If God is so weak that he needs us to do anything, he's not God!

And what hope do you offer when you teach God doesn't want anyone to suffer? Good grief! What do you think Jesus was doing for those 33 years? Shouldn't God have stopped Cain from causing Abel to suffer? Don't you think he should have stopped the rains, instead of causing a worldwide flood? Don't you think he should have stopped Satan from messing with Job? Don't you think he should have given David the crown without all those years of running away from Saul? Don't you think he should have not blinded Paul, or had him beaten, chained, put in prison, almost die in a shipwreck? How about John? The man was cast out from his own land for decades!

What faith is being dismantled here? WORD OF FAITH crap! That's what is being dismantled. Not God's word! Not God! This lie you promote!

There is deliverance. Deliverance from this man-made hokey-pokey religion that cannot even prove itself any which way from Sunday!
Yep. Philippians 1:29.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
5,909
184
63
#25
Its somewhat humorous that people are liking your post here as if to say, "Yay! Suffering!" I only hope that your usage of these verses in such a manner does not rob someone of the hope that Christ offers them. I hope that your post does not rob someone of that mustard seed size of faith that they need to be healed because they are "suffering and therefore it must be God's will."

What hope have we robbed people of, when we tell them it is God's will that they suffer? What faith have we dismantled when we come in agreement with the age old saying that life is a...[expletive] and then you die? Is God not our deliverer? You speak folly of those you oppose yet yourself commit theft with your own doctrines. That is truly heart breaking. What hope do we offer the sick, the lame, the diseased and the oppressed when we put forth a doctrine that simply says to endure?

No. Have faith, believe in God the lover of your soul! There is deliverance. There is healing. Look to God and no other. For in Him is our healing found.

The healing as that seen, the temporal represents that not seen the eternal .Temporal healing are used as a shadow to represent the unseen eternal healing. We do not attribute the work of the gospel to the temporal. We walk by faith the unseen.

Requiring a sign before one believes is the foundation of paganism.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
11,804
593
113
#26
Yep. Philippians 1:29.
Ps 44:22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

The blood of martyrs testifies with great power to a lost and dying world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
14
0
#27
Ps 44:22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

The blood of martyrs testifies with great power to a lost and dying world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
No longer lost in Christ.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
3,430
255
0
#28
Lack of Knowledge
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Lack of Vision
Proverbs 29:18
Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.
(see also: 2 Corinthians 4:4, and Ephesians 1:18)

Proverbs 13:12
Hope deferred (put off) makes the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.

Being Carnal Minded
Romans 8:1-7
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Not Understanding the Lord's Body
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Unbelief
Hebrews 4:2-11
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Choosing to Reject Deliverance
Hebrews 11:35
...and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection

Some choose to not receive deliverance and go on to Heaven, even though deliverance has been made available to them through the anointing in God's Word.


Our goal in staying here should be to impact as many lives as possible to not only make decisions for Christ to become born-again believers, but to learn and grow up to become overcomers in this life.
this list is dreadful. Scriptures taken radically out of context.

just have a serious look at Heb 11:35... do you honestly think that's what the writer intended? that "deliverance" from difficulty was rejected (implying some kinda sin of unbelief)?

please rethink this whole thing.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#29
Yep. Philippians 1:29.
Good'n, but I still have this thing of keeping whole sentence, so will finish the sentence with verse 30 too.

[FONT=&quot]29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]30 engaged in the same conflict that you saw I had and now hear that I still have.[/FONT]
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#30
this list is dreadful. Scriptures taken radically out of context.

just have a serious look at Heb 11:35... do you honestly think that's what the writer intended? that "deliverance" from difficulty was rejected (implying some kinda sin of unbelief)?

please rethink this whole thing.



This topic was discussed slightly in another thread notmyown. I'll re post that. Heb.11 goes into the meaning of faith and it also goes into ...how by faith Moses., by faith Rahab., by faith Gideon, Barak, Samson, jepehthah, David and Samual and the prophets who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises.., quenched the power of fire., etc... Below is the post from an older thread.




I notice more and more that Jesus has given us these promises to live by today. Not for when we get to the sweet by and by but these promises are for us to remember and have in the sour here and now. We will not need to remember the promises of His provision when we get to heaven because we will be walking on streets of gold without having to remember it.



Paul knew he had finished his course and run the race. He was ready to go be with the Lord. 2 Tim.4:7

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But be thou sober in all things, suffer hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil thy ministry. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am already being [SUP][a][/SUP]offered, and the time of my departure is come. [SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith: [SUP]8 [/SUP]henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Give diligence to come shortly unto me: [SUP]10 [/SUP]for Demas forsook me, having loved this present [SUP][b][/SUP]world, and went to Thessalonica; Crescens to [SUP][c][/SUP]Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia.



The Bible talks about how he made a choice Hebrews 11:35 talks about some interesting things the saints did according to their faith. Acts tells about many of the amazing things done through the disciples as the truth of the Gospel went forward.

I believe many knew about coming things about the walk of faith given by the Holy Spirit before hand about coming tribulations here.

And that many desired to keep going in the faith. I'll post some of the verses for thoughts about how believers have choices throughout the ages concerning a better
resurrection. I'm still learning about what a better resurrection means but I'm thinking during such situations God calls certain people for certain jobs here.

Hebrews 11:24-40American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter;

[SUP]25 [/SUP]choosing rather to share ill treatment with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]accounting the reproach of [SUP][a][/SUP]Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt: for he looked unto the recompense of reward.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]By faith he [SUP][b][/SUP]kept the passover, and the sprinkling of the blood, that the destroyer of the firstborn should not touch them.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were swallowed up.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they had been compassed about for seven days.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]By faith Rahab the harlot perished not with them that were disobedient, having received the spies with peace.

[SUP]32 [/SUP]And what shall I more say? for the time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah; of David and Samuel and the prophets:

[SUP]33 [/SUP]who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

[SUP]34 [/SUP]quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, waxed mighty in war, turned to flight armies of aliens.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Women received their dead by a resurrection: and others were [SUP][c][/SUP]tortured, not accepting [SUP][d][/SUP]their deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

[SUP]36 [/SUP]and others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

[SUP]37 [/SUP]they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, they were tempted, they were slain with the sword: they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated

[SUP]38 [/SUP](of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves, and the holes of the earth.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise,

[SUP]40 [/SUP]God having [SUP][e][/SUP]provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.



When I read these verses and seek to understand their meaning I do it in light of the finished work of Jesus. And although others here do not agree in healing in the atonement or in deliverance in Christ from life's many and varied tribulations., I daily do believe that and walk it out by grace through faith every day.

As I've stated before., we each have the choice how to walk out our faith one day at a time. Keeping our eyes on Jesus and His promises. I do not believe God sends the tribulations. The tribulations come because we live in a sinful world. Many Christians know the tribulations come from 3 places...1. the world, 2. the flesh 3. the devil. Many here who have come to this thread are angry because they believe God is the one who sends tribulations to teach lessons. I do not believe that. I believe we are taught through the Holy Spirit through the Word of God.



 
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D

Depleted

Guest
#31
The healing as that seen, the temporal represents that not seen the eternal .Temporal healing are used as a shadow to represent the unseen eternal healing. We do not attribute the work of the gospel to the temporal. We walk by faith the unseen.

Requiring a sign before one believes is the foundation of paganism.
Temporal healing have other purposes too. I no longer have to scratch the hives 24/7. lol
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
307
15
18
#32
1) 2 Corinthians 12:7-10
Paul was afflicted with a painful ("thorn") bodily ("in the flesh")ailment. Paul prayed three times that God would remove this thorn in the flesh from him,but God did not do this. God did something better. He taught Paul the sufficiency of Hisgrace, that God's grace was enough even to enable him to endure such a physicalaffliction. Sometimes God allows sickness or pain in order to teach us of Hisall-sufficient grace.

2) Philippians 2:25-30
Epaphroditus was seriously sick, to the point where he was near death. It isinteresting to note that Paul did not heal this faithful brother. God had mercy on him andraised him up.

3) 1 Timothy 5:23
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thineoften infirmities." Timothy had a stomach problem and he was often sick and ailingand infirmed. Paul did not tell him to see a healer, nor did Paul tell him that hisphysical problems were due to sin or a lack of faith. Paul merely gave Timothy a commonsense prescription. [It is possible that Paul was recommending unfermented wine to Timothy rather than alcoholic wine. Athenaeus, the Grammarian (280 A.D.) wrote the following: "Let him take sweet wine, either mixed with water or warmed, especially that kind called protropos, the sweet Lesbian glukus, as being good for the stomach; for sweet wine (oinos) does not make the head heavy" (Athenaeus, Banquet 2,24). This is an example from ancient literature showing that unfermented wine was recommended as a remedy for stomach problems.]

4) 2 Timothy 4:20
"Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick." Thereis no indication that Trophimus had a spiritual problem (sin, lack of faith), but he didhave a physical problem and Paul did not heal him. It is sometimes the will of God for Hischildren to be sick in this life, but never in the next life (Rev. 22:4).

Consider godly people of the past who were sick or who suffered with serious bodilyailments. For example: John Calvin was afflicted with rheumatism, intense headaches and aweak body. Fanny Crosby was blind. Robert McCheyne was very sickly and died at age 30.George Mueller certainly did not have a lack of faith, but had a lifelong struggle againstbodily infirmity and ills including head troubles and an operation at the hands of askillful surgeon. Read almost any biographies of godly saints of the past and you will inmost cases read of certain physical afflictions which God allowed them to endure.[For an excellent discussion on the subject of sickness, see Practical Religion by J. C. Ryle, his chapter on "Sickness." It is well done and would be a great encouragement to any saint suffering through a time of sickness.]

There are some Charismatic people who think that if you are sick you are out of thewill of God. For example, Kenneth Hagan Jr. wrote: "My belief is that it is indeedGod's will that His children walk in complete health....It is always God's will to healHis children." [Personal letter from Kenneth Hagin Jr. to me dated 7/16/87.] To such people we must ask these questions: Do any of you wear glasses(Kenneth Hagan Jr. does)? Do any of you ever catch the common cold or the flu? Do any ofyou ever take aspirin or other pain medicines? And most significantly, do any of you everdie?

Take for example the case of faith healer Oral Roberts. He once bypassed his ownmulti-million-dollar City of Faith medical complex to have eye surgery in California. Butwhy didn't he go to a faith-healer or why didn't he heal himself? Also if faith healing isreally effective, why do you need a multi-million dollar medical complex? The Lord Jesusand the apostles healed hundreds of people without any such facilities. Indeed, if there had been a hospital back then, Christ could have emptied the place!
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,848
180
63
#33
www.jaysnell.org

Jesus Said We Can Speak Healing



Jesus said we can do the same works He did. He even said we can do greater works than He did.

John 14:12-14
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Verse 12 above is self explanatory. Jesus simply said that believers could do the same works he did. Then he said that believers could do works even greater than he himself did. Wow!

The meaning of the next two verses, however, is not so self evident.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. (KJV)


Look for the word, “ask” in verses 13 and 14. It is used twice. “Ask,” here, translates the Greek word AITEO. This word means to ask in the strongest manner possible when applied between people.

Is healing a “whatsoever” or an “anything?”

This word also means “to command” when used on a “whatsoever” or an “any thing.” Is healing a “whatsoever” or an “anything?” In other words, you do not ask a thing or a whatsoever, you command it!

Healing is indeed a “whatsoever” and an “any thing.” No wonder Peter issued a command to this whatsoever-thing that had bound this pitiful man since birth. No wonder Peter commanded, “In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!”

Now Peter knew from verse 12 above that he could do what Jesus did.

He also knew that Jesus simply spoke to sicknesses and healed them all.

Matt 9:6-8
6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7 And he arose, and departed to his house.
But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men. (KJV)


Above, AITEO is a strong word. Here in Matthew 9 however, Jesus used a much more toned-down word. He used LEGO, a regular Greek word for “speak” or “say.” “Say” is obviously milder than “command.”

No wonder Peter obeyed with raw courage and pulled this man to his feet totally healed.

In other words, there is power in Jesus’ name. Jesus did not command (AITEO) here in Matthew 9. He simply spoke (LEGO) and the man sick of the palsy “arose and departed to his house.”

Since Jesus could get healing using the simple word for “say” and since He said we could do what He himself did, Peter tore into that man’s palsy with a terrible fury. He did not stop at LEGO. He went after this palsy with AITEO. This was the ultimate language tool in the Greek arsenal! He commanded healing, a “whatsoever-thing!”

Immediately, the man’s feet and ankles received strength. Praise God. What Peter did, we can do also. We just need to do what Peter did. He obeyed the word of God. He obeyed what Jesus said. He spoke to the palsy.

Finally, Peter obeyed with raw courage. Maybe you don’t know this! It takes courage to speak healing into someone. Why? Because we keep saying to ourselves, “Maybe this won’t work and I will feel foolish. Others will think I am a nut!”

My first time to do the above in a public meeting, the devil made me shake in my boots. But I did it anyway. With boldness and vengeance, I attacked the sicknesses of people who came forward for healing. I got results too.

Our problem is failure to act because we lack the raw courage.

Please be aware of this! Lack of holiness, righteousness or power is not our problem concerning the ministering of healing. Our problem is failure to act because we lack the raw courage. We must step out just like Peter. We must just do it.

There were no more stipulations in these healings. There are still no more stipulations. Just do it.

Remember the words of Jesus’ mother. When the wine ran out at the wedding in Cana, she told the servants, “Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.” (KJV)

We must muster enough courage to “just do it” also!
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,848
180
63
#34
I've done a search for all the scriptures that use this word "aiteo". So you all can just look to see where it says to command or just command.

I myself have had trouble with this teaching. But, it's not to command without the knowing that God loves us with such a love that isn't found on this earth. And that He is wanting the best for us, His own children. So in this manner, we command what is ours through His covenant, which is really His will He left us. An inheritance of all that He is, and all that He did.

He wants to be glorified on this earth through us to a lost, dying world.

Does sickness, poverty, and living off the government bring Him glory?

The question is to me as well.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#35

This topic was discussed slightly in another thread notmyown. I'll re post that. Heb.11 goes into the meaning of faith and it also goes into ...how by faith Moses., by faith Rahab., by faith Gideon, Barak, Samson, jepehthah, David and Samual and the prophets who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises.., quenched the power of fire., etc... Below is the post from an older thread.




I notice more and more that Jesus has given us these promises to live by today. Not for when we get to the sweet by and by but these promises are for us to remember and have in the sour here and now. We will not need to remember the promises of His provision when we get to heaven because we will be walking on streets of gold without having to remember it.



Paul knew he had finished his course and run the race. He was ready to go be with the Lord. 2 Tim.4:7

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But be thou sober in all things, suffer hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil thy ministry. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am already being [SUP][a][/SUP]offered, and the time of my departure is come. [SUP]7 [/SUP]I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith: [SUP]8 [/SUP]henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to me at that day; and not to me only, but also to all them that have loved his appearing.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Give diligence to come shortly unto me: [SUP]10 [/SUP]for Demas forsook me, having loved this present [SUP][b][/SUP]world, and went to Thessalonica; Crescens to [SUP][c][/SUP]Galatia, Titus to Dalmatia.



The Bible talks about how he made a choice Hebrews 11:35 talks about some interesting things the saints did according to their faith. Acts tells about many of the amazing things done through the disciples as the truth of the Gospel went forward.

I believe many knew about coming things about the walk of faith given by the Holy Spirit before hand about coming tribulations here.

And that many desired to keep going in the faith. I'll post some of the verses for thoughts about how believers have choices throughout the ages concerning a better
resurrection. I'm still learning about what a better resurrection means but I'm thinking during such situations God calls certain people for certain jobs here.

Hebrews 11:24-40American Standard Version (ASV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]By faith Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter;

[SUP]25 [/SUP]choosing rather to share ill treatment with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]accounting the reproach of [SUP][a][/SUP]Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt: for he looked unto the recompense of reward.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]By faith he [SUP][b][/SUP]kept the passover, and the sprinkling of the blood, that the destroyer of the firstborn should not touch them.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were swallowed up.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they had been compassed about for seven days.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]By faith Rahab the harlot perished not with them that were disobedient, having received the spies with peace.

[SUP]32 [/SUP]And what shall I more say? for the time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah; of David and Samuel and the prophets:

[SUP]33 [/SUP]who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

[SUP]34 [/SUP]quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, waxed mighty in war, turned to flight armies of aliens.

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Women received their dead by a resurrection: and others were [SUP][c][/SUP]tortured, not accepting [SUP][d][/SUP]their deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

[SUP]36 [/SUP]and others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

[SUP]37 [/SUP]they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, they were tempted, they were slain with the sword: they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated

[SUP]38 [/SUP](of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves, and the holes of the earth.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise,

[SUP]40 [/SUP]God having [SUP][e][/SUP]provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.



When I read these verses and seek to understand their meaning I do it in light of the finished work of Jesus. And although others here do not agree in healing in the atonement or in deliverance in Christ from life's many and varied tribulations., I daily do believe that and walk it out by grace through faith every day.

As I've stated before., we each have the choice how to walk out our faith one day at a time. Keeping our eyes on Jesus and His promises. I do not believe God sends the tribulations. The tribulations come because we live in a sinful world. Many Christians know the tribulations come from 3 places...1. the world, 2. the flesh 3. the devil. Many here who have come to this thread are angry because they believe God is the one who sends tribulations to teach lessons. I do not believe that. I believe we are taught through the Holy Spirit through the Word of God.



Understanding Hebrews in general. Whoever wrote it was writing to the Jews who were following Christ and being persecuted for it.

Real persecution -- their families disowned them, their country disowned them, they were, and had been for a while, completely destitute, and Rome was slaughtering them in the same ways they were being slaughtered in verses 35-38! It happened before to the Jews and it was happening again when this letter was written.

Hebrew 11 -- the By Faith Chapter -- was encouragement! I don't even think the Romans would be so cruel as to tell them at this time that it was their weakness and unbelief that their God would do that to them. How cruel would that be to tell those people at that time, "Buck-up, Bucko, and grow some faith, because you are hiding in caves and sewers destitute, and being devoured by lions because you do NOT have enough faith!" And they were much crueler than what we see as cruel today.

As much as we disagree on pert-near everything, I really do not think you are cruel, Joanie. You are sounding it though, because you are so determined to keep your beliefs that you are no longer just twisting scripture. You're taking verses so far, even in the context you're trying to squeeze them into, you can't squeeze them into it.

It's like posting the verse, "Jesus wept" to prove Jesus did the Irish jig. It's not even to the point of making any sense whatsoever. And because of that, it really does make it look like you are extremely cruel. You aren't. But if you don't see what you're doing, that's the only thing anyone can get out of that, who doesn't already know you somewhat.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#36
Citing source for this post -- [h=1]JESUS Inc. : Deprogramming from the Word of Faith Movement Pg. 52 i.e.[/h]
1) 2 Corinthians 12:7-10Paul was afflicted with a painful ("thorn") bodily ("in the flesh")ailment. Paul prayed three times that God would remove this thorn in the flesh from him,but God did not do this. God did something better. He taught Paul the sufficiency of Hisgrace, that God's grace was enough even to enable him to endure such a physicalaffliction. Sometimes God allows sickness or pain in order to teach us of Hisall-sufficient grace.

2) Philippians 2:25-30Epaphroditus was seriously sick, to the point where he was near death. It isinteresting to note that Paul did not heal this faithful brother. God had mercy on him andraised him up.

3) 1 Timothy 5:23"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thineoften infirmities." Timothy had a stomach problem and he was often sick and ailingand infirmed. Paul did not tell him to see a healer, nor did Paul tell him that hisphysical problems were due to sin or a lack of faith. Paul merely gave Timothy a commonsense prescription. [It is possible that Paul was recommending unfermented wine to Timothy rather than alcoholic wine. Athenaeus, the Grammarian (280 A.D.) wrote the following: "Let him take sweet wine, either mixed with water or warmed, especially that kind called protropos, the sweet Lesbian glukus, as being good for the stomach; for sweet wine (oinos) does not make the head heavy" (Athenaeus, Banquet 2,24). This is an example from ancient literature showing that unfermented wine was recommended as a remedy for stomach problems.]

4) 2 Timothy 4:20"Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick." Thereis no indication that Trophimus had a spiritual problem (sin, lack of faith), but he didhave a physical problem and Paul did not heal him. It is sometimes the will of God for Hischildren to be sick in this life, but never in the next life (Rev. 22:4).

Consider godly people of the past who were sick or who suffered with serious bodilyailments. For example: John Calvin was afflicted with rheumatism, intense headaches and aweak body. Fanny Crosby was blind. Robert McCheyne was very sickly and died at age 30.George Mueller certainly did not have a lack of faith, but had a lifelong struggle againstbodily infirmity and ills including head troubles and an operation at the hands of askillful surgeon. Read almost any biographies of godly saints of the past and you will inmost cases read of certain physical afflictions which God allowed them to endure.[For an excellent discussion on the subject of sickness, see Practical Religion by J. C. Ryle, his chapter on "Sickness." It is well done and would be a great encouragement to any saint suffering through a time of sickness.]

There are some Charismatic people who think that if you are sick you are out of thewill of God. For example, Kenneth Hagan Jr. wrote: "My belief is that it is indeedGod's will that His children walk in complete health....It is always God's will to healHis children." [Personal letter from Kenneth Hagin Jr. to me dated 7/16/87.] To such people we must ask these questions: Do any of you wear glasses(Kenneth Hagan Jr. does)? Do any of you ever catch the common cold or the flu? Do any ofyou ever take aspirin or other pain medicines? And most significantly, do any of you everdie?

Take for example the case of faith healer Oral Roberts. He once bypassed his ownmulti-million-dollar City of Faith medical complex to have eye surgery in California. Butwhy didn't he go to a faith-healer or why didn't he heal himself? Also if faith healing isreally effective, why do you need a multi-million dollar medical complex? The Lord Jesusand the apostles healed hundreds of people without any such facilities. Indeed, if there had been a hospital back then, Christ could have emptied the place!
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#37
Here is some helpful commentary about Paul's thorn in the flesh. There are many places in the Bible that talk about thorns in the flesh and as I've looked at them., I've also concluded we must always allow the Bible to interpret the Bible.



Paul’s use of the word “exalted” here has caused many people to assume God was the author of this “thorn in the flesh.” The reasoning is that “being exalted” is pride, and certainly, God is the one who would counter pride. However, the Scriptures speak of a godly type of exalting that has nothing to do with pride. There is a promise to those who humble themselves that God will exalt them (1 Peter 5:6). Other scriptures speak of God exalting His true believers (Psalms 37:34, 92:10; and Matthew 23:12). The Lord exalted, or magnified, Joshua in the sight of the Israelites so that they would respect him and follow his leadership (Joshua 3:7 and 4:14).

This is not speaking of Paul having a pride problem that God had to deal with through affliction. This is speaking about Paul being so respected and honored in the sight of people that Satan had to do something to make him and his Gospel less attractive. He did that through persecution (see note 14 at this verse). The devil gave Paul a “thorn in the flesh” to keep him from being exalted in the eyes of people.
NOTE 12 AT 2 CORINTHIANS 12:7:
Paul made it very clear that this “thorn in the flesh” came because of the abundance of revelations he had received. So, those who are claiming to have a thorn like Paul’s would also have to have a similar number of revelations. Paul’s revelations produced about one-half of the New Testament scriptures and one of the greatest missionary thrusts the church has ever had. Until they receive revelations that are proportional to Paul’s, they shouldn’t hide behind Paul’s thorn in the flesh.
NOTE 13 AT 2 CORINTHIANS 12:7:
The phrase “thorn in the flesh” was not original with Paul. It was an Old Testament term that referred to the negative influence ungodly people had on righteous people. In Numbers 33:55, Moses said, “But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be <b>pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides</b>, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell” (emphasis mine). Joshua 23:13 says, “Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and <b>thorns in your eyes</b>, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you” (emphasis mine). Judges 2:3 says, “Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as <b>thorns in your sides</b>, and their gods shall be a snare unto you” (emphasis mine). Paul drew on O.T. terminology to refer to the persecution he had suffered.


 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#38
Continued......



There has been much debate about what Paul’s thorn in the flesh was. Most people believe it was sickness sent from God to keep Paul humble (see note 11 at this verse). That is not the case. Paul’s thorn in the flesh was persecution that came from the devil, to make people think twice about accepting the Gospel, because of the persecution that accompanied it (see note 13 at this verse).
One of the reasons people think Paul’s thorn was sickness is because of the use of the word “infirmities” in 2 Corinthians 12:9-10. They presume “infirmities” is referring to some type of sickness. However, as explained in note 22 at 2 Corinthians 12:9, the word “infirmities” in context is referring to persecution.
Paul made it very clear in this verse that Satan was the author of this thorn, not God (see note 16 at this verse). The reason God didn’t take Paul’s thorn away was not because He wanted to afflict Paul; it was because believers are not redeemed from persecution. Paul later stated this in 2 Timothy 3:12: “Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.”
If the Lord stopped all persecution against His followers, Saul would have died before he became the Apostle Paul. Paul was one of the leaders of the persecution against Christians (see note 1 at Acts 9:1). The Lord didn’t redeem Stephen from persecution but used it to glorify Himself and prick the heart of the future Apostle Paul. Therefore, the Lord has not redeemed us from persecution. He even loves those who persecute us just as He loved those who persecuted Him (Luke 23:34). He desires their conversion, not their judgment.
NOTE 15 AT 2 CORINTHIANS 12:7:
The Greek word that was translated “messenger” here is “AGGELOS,” and it means “a messenger; especially an ‘angel’” (Strong’s Concordance). It was translated “angel,” “angels,” or “angel’s” a total of 179 times in the New Testament. The only other time it was translated “messenger” was in reference to John the Baptist being the “messenger” sent before the Lord (Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2, and Luke 7:27). This same Greek word was also translated “messengers” a total of 3 times (Luke 7:24, 9:52; and James 2:25). This word is specifying a demonic angel that was assigned to Paul by the devil.
NOTE 16 AT 2 CORINTHIANS 12:7:
Paul made it very clear that this was a messenger (see note 15 at this verse) of Satan, not of God. However, the false belief that the devil can only do what God allows him to do (see note 7 at Romans 8:28) has led many people to change Paul’s clear statement and place the responsibility on God for Paul’s thorn in the flesh. That is not the case. God is not the author of people’s problems (see note 2 at John 9:2, note 5 at Mark 4:16, and note 3 at Luke 13:16).
NOTE 17 AT 2 CORINTHIANS 12:7:
The American Heritage Dictionary defines the word “buffet” as “to hit or beat, especially repeatedly.” This is describing the work of this messenger of Satan as being a repeated action. Paul suffered persecution everywhere he went (Acts 20:23). If Paul’s thorn was a sickness, it would have to have been repeatedly given and retracted to carry the full meaning of this word “buffet.” But the Scripture clearly states that it was not a disease but the messenger (angel - see note 15 at this verse) of Satan sent to repeatedly strike against Paul. Paul spoke of these attacks as being reproaches, persecutions, and distresses for the sake of Christ (2 Corinthians 12:10).




 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,344
113
#39
Joanie, your font is so tiny it is difficult to read as is.
Could you enlarge it a bit? You have time to edit :D
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,848
180
63
#40
[h=1]KJV+ Search Results[/h][h=2]68 Verses Found, 71 Matches[/h]Mat 5:42 GiveG1325to him that askethG154thee,G4571andG2532from him that wouldG2309borrowG1155ofG575theeG4675turn not thou away.G654 G3361
Mat 6:8 Be notG3361ye thereforeG3767like untoG3666them:G846forG1063yourG5216FatherG3962knowethG1492what thingsG3739ye haveG2192needG5532of, beforeG4253yeG5209askG154him.G846
Mat 7:7 Ask,G154andG2532it shall be givenG1325you;G5213seek,G2212andG2532ye shall find;G2147knock,G2925andG2532it shall be openedG455unto you:G5213
Mat 7:8 ForG1063every oneG3956that askethG154receiveth;G2983andG2532he that seekethG2212findeth;G2147andG2532to him that knockethG2925it shall be opened.G455
Mat 7:9 OrG2228whatG5101manG444isG2076there ofG1537you,G5216whomG3739ifG1437hisG846sonG5207askG154bread,G740will he giveG1929himG846a( G3361 ) stone?G3037
Mat 7:10 OrG2532ifG1437he askG154a fish,G2486will he giveG1929himG846a serpent?G3789
Mat 7:11 IfG1487yeG5210then,G3767beingG5607evil,G4190knowG1492how to giveG1325goodG18giftsG1390unto yourG5216children,G5043how muchG4214moreG3123shall yourG5216FatherG3962whichG3588is inG1722heavenG3772giveG1325good thingsG18to them that askG154him?G846
Mat 14:7 Whereupon G3606  he promised G3670  with G3326  an oath G3727  to give G1325  her G846  whatsoever G3739 G1437  she would ask. G154
Mat 18:19 AgainG3825I sayG3004unto you,G5213ThatG3754ifG1437twoG1417of youG5216shall agreeG4856onG1909earthG1093as touchingG4012anyG3956thingG4229thatG3739G1437they shall ask,G154it shall be doneG1096for themG846ofG3844myG3450FatherG3962whichG3588is inG1722heaven.G3772
Mat 20:20 Then G5119  came G4334  to him G846  the G3588  mother G3384  of Zebedee's G2199  children G5207  with G3326  her G848  sons, G5207  worshipping G4352him, and G2532  desiring G154  a certain thing G5100  of G3844  him. G846
Mat 20:22 But G1161  Jesus G2424  answered G611  and said, G2036Ye knowG1492notG3756whatG5101ye ask.G154Are ye ableG1410to drinkG4095of theG3588cupG4221thatG3739IG1473shallG3195drinkG4095of, andG2532to be baptizedG907with theG3588baptismG908thatG3739IG1473am baptizedG907with? They say G3004  unto him, G846  We are able. G1410
Mat 21:22 AndG2532all things,G3956whatsoeverG3745 G302ye shall askG154inG1722prayer,G4335believing,G4100ye shall receive.G2983
Mat 27:20 But G1161  the G3588  chief priests G749  and G2532  elders G4245  persuaded G3982  the G3588  multitude G3793  that G2443  they should ask G154  Barabbas, G912  and G1161  destroy G622  Jesus. G2424
Mat 27:58 He G3778  went G4334  to Pilate, G4091  and begged G154  the G3588  body G4983  of Jesus. G2424  Then G5119  Pilate G4091  commanded G2753  the G3588  body G4983  to be delivered


just partial list