Simple Question...No Simple Answer

[Elin]

You set the Scriptures against themselves, demonstrating that you do not understand them correctly, for the word of God does not contradict itself.

so I set scripture against themselves now....all I did was quote the word.....

How else would the Scriptures be set against themselves?

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. ( a man is Justified by faith with works)

James is talking about faith without works /deeds....and he is asking can such faith save him? what is your answer yes or no?

James is talking about intellectual assent (Jas 2:19), as opposed to true faith.

No, mere intellectual assent cannot save, because it is not true faith.

what do you mean by...

"What good is it, my brother, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds. Can such faith save him?" (Jas 2:14)

James is talking about the nature of faith, of true faith which saves vs. false faith which does not save (Jas 2:15-16).

He is not talking about the operation of true faith only in salvation.

where did that come from? what epistle? ,what chapter? ,what verse?

"Nature" is the essence of a subject.
"Operation" is the action of a subject.

They come from the science which investigates the facts and principles of reality.

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. ( a man is Justified by faith with works)

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be
justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for
by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (a man is justified by faith) not by works of the law

Paul is in perfect agreement with James: salvation is by true faith (Jas 2:19),never by any kind of work (Eph 2:8-9),
for with Paul, "works" always means works of the law, it never means any other kind of work.

To insert any other kind of work into the meaning of Paul's text, is to alter Paul's usage of the word "works."

now Elin is saying what Elin just did was put us back under the law...

Setting the Scriptures against themselves demonstrates that you do not understand them correctly,
for God's word does not contradict itself.

You are setting the Scriptures against themselves simply for the purpose of obfuscation.

I will not be participating on those terms.

 

[Elin]

Not a duality in the statement by Jesus' intent of that statement, but a duality in a truth it put forward, and, tack on to that, Jesus Christ only operated as God, in His amazing works, by the power of His fullness of the Holy Spirit. He was even born of the Holy Spirit and Mary. I find layers of truth sprinkled all around scripture.

Gotcha!

(Be's keepin' yer timbers warm, have mercy!)

Be's might chilly in dees parts.

Me timbers is froze.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Be's might chilly in dees parts.

Me timbers is froze.

LOL! I know'd it, know'd it. Freezy, Louisie! But you be's a keepin' a fire under them apostaters...

 

[newbirth]

How else would the Scriptures be set against themselves?

James is talking about intellectual assent (Jas 2:19), as opposed to true faith.

seems like you have the authority to do whatever you want with scripture.....there is no true in the Greek...

No, mere intellectual assent cannot save, because it is not true faith.

"Nature" is the essence of a subject.
"Operation" is the action of a subject.

They come from the science which investigates the facts and principles of reality.

the fact is you are disjoint from reality....faith without works cannot save because it is dead....being alone....you want to be saved by a dead faith.....Just as you took all works to mean works of the law....when we are created unto good works......can you not see your folly

Setting the Scriptures against themselves demonstrates that you do not understand them correctly,
for God's word does not contradict itself.

You are setting the Scriptures against themselves simply for the purpose of obfuscation.

I will not be participating on those terms.

look at your confusion...am I doing something because I don't understand?
or am I doing something on purpose because I understand?...It cannot be both at the same time....

 

[Elin]

James is talking about intellectual assent (Jas 2:19), as opposed to true faith.

seems like you have the authority to do whatever you want with scripture.....
there is no true in the Greek...

There is also no "intellectual assent" in the Greek.

Did I quote Scripture adding the word "true" or "intellectual assent" to the Greek?

Context:

"What good is it, my brother, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds. Can such faith save him?" (Jas 2:14)

James is talking about the nature of faith, of true faith which saves vs. false faith which does not save (Jas 2:15-16).

He is not talking about the operation of true faith only in salvation.

No, mere intellectual assent cannot save, because it is not true faith, it is false faith.

"Nature" is the essence of a subject.
"Operation" is the action of a subject.

They come from the science which investigates the facts and principles of reality.

the fact is you are disjoint from reality....faith without works cannot save because it is dead....being alone....you want to be saved by a dead faith.....Just as you took all works to mean works of the law....when we are created unto good works......can you not see your folly

Non-responsive.

Setting the Scriptures against themselves demonstrates that you do not understand them correctly, for God's word does not contradict itself.

You are setting the Scriptures against themselves simply for the purpose of obfuscation.

I will not be participating on those terms.

look at your confusion...am I doing something because I don't understand?
or am I doing something on purpose because I understand?...It cannot be both at the same time....

Addressed above.

Non-responsive.

 

[newbirth]

There is also no "intellectual assent" in the Greek.

you are the one bringing those things up....

Did I quote Scripture adding the word "true" or "intellectual assent" to the Greek?

no you just try to force it into scripture...this is your quote

James is talking about intellectual assent (Jas 2:19), as opposed to true faith.

James is talking about faith without works.....
James 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
......
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

...... it says nothing about intellectual assent or true faith

 

[TaylorTG]

Wrong Jesus said why do you call me good for no man is good. The only good works are done by the Holy Spirit and not us.

Are you stupid? I didn't say that the Holy Spirit isn't the source of our good works, and I even acknowledged the miracles brought about by Christ's ministry.

It is possible for a person to be 'good' in the spiritual sense of the term. If one is benevolent, seeking to find or serve God, then that person is valued by God, even in his sinful nature. You underestimate our ability to please the Divine.


Take some reputation anyway. Your persistence is valued.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Faith alone saves but faith that saves is never alone just means the same thing everyone that knows this already is saying it is saying is that all it takes to be saved is faith alone.
John 3:16
but as anyone that has been saved by faith knows already is when GOD comes in that a saving faith will produce good works(faith that saves is never alone)

 

[newbirth]

Faith alone saves but faith that saves is never alone just means the same thing everyone that knows this already is saying it is saying is that all it takes to be saved is faith alone.
John 3:16
but as anyone that has been saved by faith knows already is when GOD comes in that a saving faith will produce good works(faith that saves is never alone)

everyone who is saved knows we are saved by grace through faith...and faith alone is dead...and anyone who says they are saved by saving faith is a liar....we are saved by grace...we are saved by grace through faith.......faith without works is dead....being alone...

 

[seed_time_harvest]

everyone who is saved knows we are saved by grace through faith...and faith alone is dead...and anyone who says they are saved by saving faith is a liar....we are saved by grace...we are saved by grace through faith.......faith without works is dead....being alone...

The first part of your post is correct but I'm sure we all know that GOD graced all those who believe in his word,eternal life.
John 3:16
The rest of your post has been shown in error at worst and at best it shows a lack of basic principle in truth, but you don't seem to hear our words....why is that?

 

[newbirth]

The first part of your post is correct but I'm sure we all know that GOD graced all those who believe in his word,eternal life.
John 3:16
The rest of your post has been shown in error at worst and at best it shows a lack of basic principle in truth, but you don't seem to hear our words....why is that?

don't just say it is in error .....point out the error....scripture says faith alone is dead.... take that up with James....you want me to believe that faith alone saves....and I pointed to you..... we are saved by grace through faith.....your major error is thinking that we are saved by faith....God's grace made salvation available to all men...but it is only those who believe what Christ teaches and obey his words and continue therein will enter his kingdom and receive that salvation......

[SUP]7 [/SUP]By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

How is it Noah and Abraham has works with their faith....but your faith is alone....

 

[seed_time_harvest]

don't just say it is in error .....point out the error....scripture says faith alone is dead.... take that up with James....you want me to believe that faith alone saves....and I pointed to you..... we are saved by grace through faith.....your major error is thinking that we are saved by faith....God's grace made salvation available to all men...but it is only those who believe what Christ teaches and obey his words and continue therein will enter his kingdom and receive that salvation......

[SUP]7 [/SUP]By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

How is it Noah and Abraham has works with their faith....but your faith is alone....

After GOD has done a work in you It comes natural to to do good works on this earth and still in your physical body,but GOD does not need to see physical work.

The bible says that Abraham believed GOD and it was accounted righteous.

Romans 4:3
king james version

3.)For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:1-2
king james version(kjv)


[SUP]1.)[/SUP] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

[SUP]2.)[/SUP] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

[newbirth]

After GOD has done a work in you It comes natural to to do good works on this earth and still in your physical body,but GOD does not need to see physical work.

The bible says that Abraham believed GOD and it was accounted righteous.

Romans 4:3
king james version

3.)For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:1-2
king james version(kjv)


[SUP]1.)[/SUP] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

[SUP]2.)[/SUP] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

faith comes by hearing....when Abram heard the word he obeyed....
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

what work did God do in him? All he did was speak the word which supplied faith...
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God does not need to see works of the law ...he wants to see works of faith.....
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[posthuman]

[SUP]
8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

what work did God do in him?

what work did God do in Abraham??
the most excellent of works!!

Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation,
and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.
(Genesis 18:18)

Jesus said to him,
“Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
(Luke 19:9)

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:29)

to Abraham is the promise, and out of Abraham comes our salvation!
was this the work of Abraham, or of God?

is He not also the maker of Abraham?
and of you? and of me?

 

[newbirth]

what work did God do in Abraham??
the most excellent of works!!

Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation,
and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.
(Genesis 18:18)

Jesus said to him,
“Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
(Luke 19:9)

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:29)

to Abraham is the promise, and out of Abraham comes our salvation!
was this the work of Abraham, or of God?

is He not also the maker of Abraham?
and of you? and of me?

bro you have to look at seed time's post to see why I responded that way....this is the comment..

After GOD has done a work in you It comes natural to to do good works on this earth and still in your physical body,but GOD does not need to see physical work.

hence I answered that way......God spoke Abram obeyed.....

 

[seed_time_harvest]

faith comes by hearing....when Abram heard the word he obeyed....
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

what work did God do in him? All he did was speak the word which supplied faith...
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

God does not need to see works of the law ...he wants to see works of faith.....
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

You said it yourself

faith comes by hearing....

what work did God do in him? All he did was speak the word which supplied faith...

remember GOD doesn't need to do physical works his WORD is SPIRIT and life.

 

[newbirth]

You said it yourself



remember GOD doesn't need to do physical works his WORD is SPIRIT and life.

we are the ones who have to obey him and do the physical work...same as Abraham.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we are the ones who have to obey him and do the physical work...same as Abraham.....

Abraham, the one who was declared righteous before he did one work.

Yes we need to be like him, Believe God. So he will credit to us HIS righteousness just like he did abraham.

 

[newbirth]

Abraham, the one who was declared righteous before he did one work.

Yes we need to be like him, Believe God. So he will credit to us HIS righteousness just like he did abraham.

Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Is it not works of obedience....

Genesis 12:1-3King James Version (KJV)
12 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.



Genesis 15:5-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And he said unto him, I am the Lord that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.


were you not the one calling Abraham a liar?