Slaughter of the Nephilim, the forbidden race, by Gods people (O.T.)

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jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,009
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#41
You see Jaybird? This kind of thing you just answered is the result of studying the Word with the intellect...It cannot be understood but by the Holy Spirit teaching. Too much intellectual studying here. We have to learn to lean on Him
are you saying all those before 400 AD did not "lean on Him"? the sthite view did not exist before then.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
23,391
1,335
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#42
Well.....The opinion is right! You can also read the book of Giants. Many history books are out there. They are not Word but they do support the Word. If the Word recommends them they must be all right hey?
No, making mention of something is not necessarily recommending it, nor is any such mention a nod to divine inspiration. NONE of the apocryphal writings even claim divine inspiration, and neither are any of them written in Hebrew, plus, they teach immoral practices. Also, they clearly contradict the teachings of Scripture in places. The RCC canonized them mid 16th century because they supported some of their heresies.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
390
40
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#43
Both the new and old testaments speak of angels who can take on human form, yet over the agaes the book of Enoch has been discarded because it speaks of this and some men (not God) decide it just can't be.

I have read posts spouting off about how cruel the Lord creator is because God allowed the flood killing what they insist was innocent wonderful people. They deny all the Psalms tell us of the characteristics of our Lord. If the book of Enoch reports what happened, we would be in deep doo doo if God hadn't protected us from the Nephilim.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
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#44
You just proved my point, thank you. No one can do a contextual exegete of Genesis 4:11-6:1 to show that Genesis 6:2, 4 are fallen angels. Thank you for proving my point again, you when outside the context and outside the Bible. Stay in the context to prove your point, it CAN NOT BE DONE. That's why no one has even tried in the last two weeks.
LOL I have done it twice.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,009
60
48
#45
Both the new and old testaments speak of angels who can take on human form, yet over the agaes the book of Enoch has been discarded because it speaks of this and some men (not God) decide it just can't be.

I have read posts spouting off about how cruel the Lord creator is because God allowed the flood killing what they insist was innocent wonderful people. They deny all the Psalms tell us of the characteristics of our Lord. If the book of Enoch reports what happened, we would be in deep doo doo if God hadn't protected us from the Nephilim.
thats exactly what the holy Father was doing in Numbers when He commanded all those be killed in Canaan. there was something not right in that land.
 

CS1

Moderator
Staff member
May 23, 2012
2,421
182
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#46
Gen 6 sons of God and the context of the whole chapter
remember the fall of man was was relative new with in the historical narrative. man was far from God but not as far God saw the sons of God doing wickedly who were the sons of God in gen 6? verses 1 to 7 say it was man no where is angels , messengers, angelic host mentioned anywhere in the context of gen 6 no where. and because words in Hebrew have a systemic range of meaning
example :

in the Hebrew sons of God

God could mean :




  1. [*=left]rulers, judges
    [*=left]divine ones
    [*=left]angels
    [*=left]gods

    however the word used has to fix the context . Angel does not. God is the Context of Elohim in gen 6

    sons :
    son, male child

    1. [*=left]grandson
      [*=left]children (pl. - male and female)
      [*=left]youth, young men (pl.)
      [*=left]young (of animals)
      [*=left]sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men] or sons of God [for angels]
      [*=left]people (of a nation) (pl.)

      no where is angel in the word
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
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#47
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

were these humans to? how did they get into the heavens?
Same way Enoch and Elijah got there.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,948
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#49
FYI the Hebrew translation for Son of God is also human beings . Ben Hebrew for "son" of God Elohim

contextual meaning of the chapter son of God means "People of HIS" created beings .

sons of God means = works or special possessions of God

angel: does also me Elohim but that would not fix in the context of chapter 6 of Genesis.

you would have to change the context of gen 6


man is the context man is the one being destroyed man is mentioned 7 times from verse 4 to 7

angels would make no sense .
Hallelujah!!! Someone understands the contextual setting of the sons of God in Genesis 6:2, 4. I do not understand why people feel the need to make them someone they are not and the context does not allow.

I
would not use Son of God, I would use son of God. Also to your point on man being mentioned 7 times from verse 4-7 notice how the NKJV, NASB, RSV, ASV uses men in 6:1 to refer to a specific group and in verse 3 uses man to refer to all men.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
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#50
God Never called any Angel His son.

Hebrew 1
5For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?

Or again,

“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?

6And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,

“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
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#51
2 Samuel 7v 12When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men, 15but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me.c Your throne shall be established forever.’” 17In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,948
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#52
LOL I have done it twice.
Don't know why you are laughing because you have never done it, you think you have but you haven't stay in the context to do it, why? Because you can't, you are only fooling yourself with your pride of some special knowledge of Genesis 6:2, 4 that comes from outside of the context. The context, is the important part, not what you make it, think it is, but what it actually is. You have not went from Genesis 4:11-24 to show who they are, Genesis 4:25-5:2 to show who they are, with those two passages leading to who Genesis 6:2, 4 are talking about. Look at CS1's post it is an easier brake down of what I'm saying.

Again you have not and can not stay in the context of these Scriptures and come out with fallen angels, unless you twist the context, lying or going outside the immediate context of the Scriptures and/or the overall context of the Bible. Which you have done, NOT the lying part because you believe it to be true.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,948
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#53
If anyone wants to know more about the Nephilim and their origins the ancient Hebrew books of Enoch, Jubilees and Jasher
give details. All three are in print. They are not in the standard Bible but Enoch is quoted and Jasher is mentioned.

I believe that many Demons are the spirits of the Nephilim, and one of the reasons they possess people is because they once had bodies, although they will enter animals if they have to. This is just my opinion.
​Any book is not in the context of Genesis 4:11-6:7. We can take any book and say it supports the Bible and use it to make the Bible say what it does not say.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,948
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#54
this does not fit, flesh of its own kind knowing flesh of its own kind produces flesh of its own kind, not flesh of another kind. an evil person does not have a physical transformation into another being. we know cain was wicked, where does it say he changed physically, it doesnt. [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

they get in when Gen 6 says sons of the Most High.



it fits just fine, if the daughters of men are of Adam and sons of Most High are fallen angels, the fallen ones try and corrupt the seed line of Adam - Noah - Jesus. Noah was without blemish so obviously one of these daughters made it through. this is the same argument on your side but flipped flopped. sons of Most High (seth) and daughters of man (cain), they (cain sons) attempt to corrupt the line of seth but one gets through and Noah is without blemish.
same story, same agenda, same result but characters are changed. if the result does not fit for the angel view then the result does not fit for the seth view.


not really it says sons of the Most High right there in the story.


context says giants/nephimim/ non humans were produced. humans and humans dont do that


Jude and Peter are part of the bible.


there is no command that says you are judged for leaving your first estate, however there is a command to not mix of those not of your kind.

[/FONT][/COLOR]
The more I take one of your rabbit trails, the more you prove my point whether you believe it or not, because you will not deal with the context of the Scriptures in question. No more rabbit trails.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,931
428
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#55
What we have masquerading as the book of Enoch is a fake and of demonic origin and not divinely inspired. It was written to make people either worship fallen angels or attribute modern advances to them and become paranoid conspiracy theorist.

If you want to think it's scripture, it's your choice but I would warn anyone against it.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,948
59
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#56
Both the new and old testaments speak of angels who can take on human form, yet over the agaes the book of Enoch has been discarded because it speaks of this and some men (not God) decide it just can't be.

I have read posts spouting off about how cruel the Lord creator is because God allowed the flood killing what they insist was innocent wonderful people. They deny all the Psalms tell us of the characteristics of our Lord. If the book of Enoch reports what happened, we would be in deep doo doo if God hadn't protected us from the Nephilim.
First of all, angel took on human form as you said, they manifested as men, it never says they became men, they only appeared as men, never becoming man or taking on flesh.

Second the book of Enoch blames what people think is about Genesis 6 on azazeal not man and How do know that God did not move men by the Holy Spirit to remove the book of Enoch? You don't. Where does it say that the Lord was doing anything because of nephilim in the context of the story in Genesis 6? It doesn't. If you believe that the Lord judging man in Genesis 6:3, 5-7 is to protect man from nephilim, you are showing why Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in I Timothy 2:12, I Corinthian 14:34-35.

You should believe what you read and quit reading what you believe into the Bible.
 

CS1

Moderator
Staff member
May 23, 2012
2,421
182
63
#57
many try to inject the [h=2]Nephilim[/h]
as meaning angels having sex with women in gen 6 then try to make it fix with Job two different contexts.
Gen 6 = man

Job 1: = devil and spiritual BEINGS COMING BEFORE God . Clearly they are not men because no man can see God and live.
1 pet and jude have nothing to do with the

[h=2]Nephilim[/h]
now you cannot Job to explain gen 6 nor Jude or 2pet.
Gen 6 is the main text you have to use to prove
[h=2]Nephilim is more than just a might people[/h]
the context does not support that even with Elohim having the meaning of Angel the word Elohim can mean God , Ben elohim which is man.

the text translates
The People of God his chosen had relations with heathen women and out of that relationship came a mighty people of war who did not worship God but did wickedness that Offended the Living God that HE destroyed them.

JUst like HE did Sodom and other men. that is what 2 pet says and Jude.

the message is not to us about sex with angels the message is man who offended the living God.
 

CS1

Moderator
Staff member
May 23, 2012
2,421
182
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#58
First of all, angel took on human form as you said, they manifested as men, it never says they became men, they only appeared as men, never becoming man or taking on flesh.

Second the book of Enoch blames what people think is about Genesis 6 on azazeal not man and How do know that God did not move men by the Holy Spirit to remove the book of Enoch? You don't. Where does it say that the Lord was doing anything because of nephilim in the context of the story in Genesis 6? It doesn't. If you believe that the Lord judging man in Genesis 6:3, 5-7 is to protect man from nephilim, you are showing why Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in I Timothy 2:12, I Corinthian 14:34-35.

You should believe what you read and quit reading what you believe into the Bible.

likeness is not an actual. do a word study on likeness is not the "same as".
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,009
60
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#59
The more I take one of your rabbit trails, the more you prove my point whether you believe it or not, because you will not deal with the context of the Scriptures in question. No more rabbit trails.
call it what you want but it most definitely put lots of holes in your theory.

if you truly think its just a bunch of rabbit trails why do you never respond to these points. we can go over them one at a time if you like, i tried that before and you still buried your head in the sand.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
4,009
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#60
all good points CSI.
1 pet and jude have nothing to do with the

Nephilim
whats Jude talking about when He teaches of the men of Sodom going after "strange flesh"?