Some common misconceptions about God;

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#1
#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.
The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

#2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line


Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

#3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character


Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

#4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us


God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.
First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.
Grace and peace to you.

Thank you Dr. Paul Ellis
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,940
760
113
#3
1. All about God, starts with Satan. I think I would rather hear about the qualities of God, next time, ok?

2. God can use anything he wants, including Satan. I think the lie is that Satan is not used! Let’s see, Job? Death, sickness and loss! And who told Satan to do it? Oh, God! God set the limits, used Satan! See Job 1, 2!

3. Oh, more Word Faith lies and nonsense. First, try reading the Bible. You might find out what it says. The Psalms, praising God, in spite of the trials of life come to mind. Then there’s Job. Sure, he got restored, but did he suffer! Oh, how about this verse?

More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s lovehas been poured out through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us!” Romans 5:3-5

4. You seem a bit mixed up here. Is this #3 again? As for us being kings, the verse says THROUGH him, Christ, we will reign in life.

For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.” Romans 5:17

There is a difference between reigning through him, and being kings. And what will happen when Jesus returns is a whole different matter than living now, in a Fallen world.

Here is my suggestion. Get a modern English Bible, so you can understand it, and read it through a few times without reading, watching or listening to false Word Faith teachers. You will be surprised what you can unlearn, and what God will teach you of the truth, by reading the whole Bible in context.

 
Dec 4, 2017
906
14
0
#4
#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.
The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

#2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line


Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

#3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character


Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

#4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us


God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.
First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.
Grace and peace to you.

Thank you Dr. Paul Ellis
Elihu was probably the most disgusting liar in the account.

Victory is secured by our Lord and Savior.
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
120
0
#5
Thank you "Dr". Paul Ellis for showing us that you have no clue about this subject. Perhaps you are a doctor of veterinary medicine.

lol has this Guy ever read the book of Job i wonder?

who would ever advise someone to not be like job?

ezekeil 14:14 " Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD."

Job 1 " There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. 2And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. 3His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. 4And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. 5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually."


perfect and upright before God...Prays continually for His children....

v8 ....And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."


God says " Job is like no one else on earth he is perfect and upright and he eskeweth evil"


satan then says " well yea sure he is, You blessed Him, you protect Him, He has a great life you increase Him...But if you take all that away, He will curse you to your face"

God says " the power over all his blessings are in your hand. but do not touch Him"

so then, all His flocks, H9is possessions, His children, even H9is servants are all destroyed in One day. ...and this is How Job reacts


Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,

21
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

22
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly."

Job is exactly who we should be like , even after the book concludes, job is approved By God and His 3 friends are rebuked for thier terrible advice, if a person doesnt realize the three friends are giving the wrong advice job can be terribly confusing.

job 42 "
And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. 8Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job. "


Job is one of the very best examples one can Have, a bit like pauls writings its easily misread, and not always understood that it of the earliest books as far as time period goes.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#6
#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us

Satan didn’t ask for permission to go after Job because he didn’t need permission. In the Garden of Eden we opened the door to sin and have been reaping the consequences ever since.
The good news is it doesn’t have to be this way. By the grace of God the devil flees when we resist him (James 4:7). Don’t be like Job and let the thief plunder your house. Be like David who encouraged himself in the Lord and fought back (1 Sam 30:6).

#2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line


Woof! What nonsense. What fellowship does light have with darkness (2 Cor 6:14)?

#3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character


Satan’s aim was to trick God into harming Job, something that God would never do. Although Job thought God was responsible for his loss, God sent Elihu to set him straight. Elihu is a picture of Jesus who went around “healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him” (Acts 10:38). Jesus doesn’t give sickness; he takes it from us.

#4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us


God does not work for the devil. If God gave the thief permission to rob you, he wouldn’t be a thief.
First Adam lost control of the planet, but last Adam took back what the devil stole. In Christ you are destined to reign like a king (Rom 5:17). But you won’t reign if you heed the lies above and follow Job instead of Jesus.
Grace and peace to you.

Thank you Dr. Paul Ellis
#1: Satan needs God’s permission to attack us So, why did Satan ask permission of God if he didn't have to? This guy seems to have not bothered to read Job.

#2: God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line Agreement. Also never heard anyone say that.

#3: God gives us sickness and suffering to teach us character Hogwash, and the entire paragraph is wrong.

#4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us God doesn't let stuff just skip by him. He's sovereign. If something happens, God decreed it. What's the devil have to do with it?

This is the most uneducated "teacher" you've posted yet. He doesn't even know the book he's presenting some kind of case with.

Have you ever bothered to check out his claims?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,772
537
113
#7
lol has this Guy ever read the book of Job i wonder?
This Paul Ellis is another FALSE TEACHER like Joseph Prince, but joaniemarie prefers false teachers to those who speak the truth. Since Ellis knows that the book of Job thoroughly refutes his nonsense, he attacks it at every opportunity and misleads gullible Christians.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#8
Hi guys! (including you ladies too) Yes I know.... this is not what we have been traditionally taught in the Baptist church. But you have to admit there are many things we have been taught that we had to un learn concerning God that we were taught in the world., or the other churches we went to for that matter.

I was taught in the Catholic church that Mary was the mother of God and was co-equal with God. Among other very wrong teachings concerning God and His ways. We were taught that God was much like the Greek Gods who played crazy make no sense games with humans. Always testing us to see if we would listen or ignore His rules and regulations so we could be put in the "good" section and be accepted for that day.

These wrong concepts of God had to be cleared up in time by many of us who have been saved. We needed the truth concerning God from the Bible. Not ideas coming from certain religions we came from or even parents that we had who may have abused us or just were uncaring or not available. Just look at the many different people that come to CC. We all have differing ideas based on differing experiences based on differing countries and nations in the world.

Look at the different threads started by different people here. Each one of us have certain subjects we are into and want to discuss. There is nothing wrong with our different personalities because God made each one of us unique. But when it comes to the truth., the Bible is of no private interpretation so we can't take a Bible verse and build a religion on it. Yet that is what many (even Christians) have done.

Take the book of Job for instance. We were always taught that he was (the whole time) a man to follow in the foot steps of. But I've since discovered a few things about Job's beliefs that are not in agreement with what the Bible says about God. And so I have endeavored to share it here with those who are willing to reason together.

Paul Ellis is pretty cool IMO. I like his teachings on different things. Although we don't agree concerning some of the end times issues of the church. I am looking forward to Jesus coming for the church in what many of us call "the rapture" But that's ok Paul E. isn't on the same page as me.

In the next post I'll show some of the things PE says about Job. At the end of the book, Job found out some major truths about God he didn't know before and he was set straight by God (as we have been) These men of faith in the Bible were flawed and although they are examples of how us humans can fail and then come to our senses and learn to follow God., the bigger lessons are to show how gracious our God is in showing love and grace and mercy to us when we fail. How His love never fails although we often do.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#9
The entire Bible is good for you, but you won’t get much out of it unless you know Jesus Christ. To understand the written word, you need to know the Living Word. Try to read the Bible without an appreciation of Jesus – who he is and what he has done – you may end up taking someone else’s medicine. Some verses will appear to contradict others and you will get confused.

In the first part of this study on God’s gifts, we looked at a sincere lady in the Bible who mistakenly believed that God gives us bad gifts like death and poverty. Today I want to look at a man who had a different problem. He believed that God gives us good gifts only to take them away again. You can probably guess that I’m talking about Job. Job had this one really bad week when his livestock were stolen, his servants were slain, and his kids were killed when a house fell on them. For some reason, Job thought God was behind his loss for he said:



The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised. (Job 1:21)

If there was ever a scripture that has led to some screwy notions about God’s character, it’s this one. Anyone who has suffered loss has probably heard this verse. It’s quoted at funerals. We sing songs about it. For some strange reason people seem to find comfort in believing that God is responsible for their loss.


Now don’t get me wrong – I love Job’s attitude. He’s saying that whatever happens in life, he’s going to praise the name of the Lord. But Job said some dumb things about God. Later on Job would come to regret his choice of words. “I spoke of things I did not understand” (Job 42:3).



The question stands: Does God give and take away?

Any picture we have of God needs to be informed by Jesus Christ. Jesus is the “radiance of God’s glory, the exact representation of his being” (Heb 1:3). To get a good understanding of God’s character, we need to look to Jesus, not Job. Can you imagine Jesus stealing or killing? Of course not. So how is it that some people think that God was responsible for Job’s loss?


“But Paul, it’s in the Bible, it’s right there in black and white.” Let me put it to you like this. If you want the very best insight into God’s character, are you better off looking at:

(a) Jesus, who said “anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9), or
(b) Job, who had only heard of God but did not actually know him (see Job 42:5)?



Jesus is the better choice! Jesus came to reveal God the Great Giver. Have you been given something good? Then see God as your source:

Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. (Jas 1:17)


Who’s robbing you?

But what if you have suffered loss, like Job? He lost his health, his wealth, and his family. The temptation may be to blame God for your loss, as if God had a change of heart. But God is not fickle. He does not change like shifting shadows. He is an extraordinary giver who never takes back his gifts.


God’s gifts and God’s call are under full warranty – never canceled, never rescinded. (Romans 11:29, MSG)

So if God is doing the giving, who is doing the taking? Again, Jesus provides the answer:
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. (John 10:10)
We ought not to be confused about these two different roles. One is a giver, the other is a taker. If you have been given something good, give thanks to God. But if you’ve been robbed, don’t blame God. He’s not behind your loss. And Satan is not his sheepdog.


Humans are spectacularly slow learners. From the beginning of human history the devil has been trying to steal or ruin everything God gave us and yet there are still some who think that God is the thief. God gave us authority over a planet and the devil took it. God gave us freedom and the devil somehow got us to choose the way of slavery. God gave us eternal life, health and glory, and we lost it all. But thank God for Jesus who took back what the devil stole.



Karma versus grace

If you think that God gives and takes away, you’ve missed the point of Jesus. Jesus came to reveal a generous Father and to destroy the work of the thief (1 Jn 3:8). Jesus came that we might have life to the full, not to the half.

If you think God gives and takes away, you have more faith in karma than grace. Karma says what goes around comes around. If you’re healthy now, you’ll be sick tomorrow. If you’re prospering now, poverty’s waiting around the next corner. When disappointments and hardships come, you won’t be surprised. You’ll just throw in the towel and say, “I knew it was too good to last.”



The world works according to the principle of give and take, but God just gives. The only thing he’ll take off you – if you let him – is your sin, your shame, your sickness, your worries, and your fears. He takes away those things that harm us and gives us good things that bless us.

Are you Job or David?

Both Job and David were robbed. Both were greatly distressed and surrounded by foolish men who gave bad advice. But unlike Job, David did a Jesusy-thing and took back what was stolen. Why did David fight back when Job quit? Because David “encouraged himself in the Lord his God” (1 Sam 30:6). In his pain David considered God’s goodness and realized that God was not behind his loss. He understood that it was not God’s will for him to suffer and, so strengthened, he fought back and prevailed.



I wish I could go back in time and get to Job before his friends did. I would say, “God didn’t kill your kids! He didn’t steal your livestock and make you sick. You’ve been robbed! The devil is having a go at you. Don’t sit there in the ashes and cry about it, get up and fight! Are you a victor or a victim?”



The church will never see victory if we think God is behind our suffering. If we think God is robbing us we won’t even resist. We’ll let the devil waltz in and plunder our families all the while singing “He gives and takes away.”

Funny, but I can’t imagine Jesus or David doing that.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#10
Dr. Paul Ellis... who is he?

I don't know anything about Dr. Paul Ellis,
so I started researching him.
And guess what?
I STILL don't know anything about him?

Why?

Because I cannot find any credentials, of any kind, verifying anything about him, anywhere.

Maybe all the credentials he claims are true,
but it seems odd that he makes claims of credentials, without any verification, anywhere, of any of those credentials.
It seems odd.

Most people who are Doctors, and University Professors, are more than happy to tell you WHERE they received each of their degrees, and WHAT KIND OF DOCTOR they are, and WHAT UNIVERSITY they taught at, and in WHAT CAPACITY.
But not Dr. Ellis.
He has many websites, where all of his credentials remain completely mysterious.

Some of the claims:
1. Claims to be an award winning author
The Author - What if the good news was the best news you never heard?
2. Claims to be a former pastor
The Author - What if the good news was the best news you never heard?
3. Claims to be a former university professor
The Author - What if the good news was the best news you never heard?
4. Claims to be a Doctor

What I found about his claims and credentials:
After digging through several of his websites, and all info I could find about him, no matter how hard I looked, I could not find any awards he won, I could not find the name of a church he pastored, I could not not find any university where he was a professor, and I could find no information about him being a doctor.
In fact, I could not even find any undergraduate degrees.

Maybe all of his claims are true.
Maybe they are.
Maybe.
Maybe he's a Doctor and University Professor who's just too disorganized to list his credentials ANYWHERE.
Maybe.
But generally when someone claims to be a a Doctor, Pastor, or University Professor (and he claims ALL THREE) ... errr... they generally list, in plain site, all of their proper credentials, like when and where they earned each of their degrees, along with the churches they've pastored, and the universities where they've taught.

It seems Dr. Paul Ellis is man of mystery.




 
Last edited:

Deade

Senior Member
Dec 17, 2017
3,097
1,018
113
72
#11
Hello joaniemarie, you have been doing pretty good until now. On the first three points: God does not have to instigate an attack by Satan.

It states that God has put a hedge around us to keep bad things away. God does back off that hedge and allow the devil to manifest himself into our lives. Here is the hedge:
Job 1:10: "Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land."

Why do you suppose God allows us to be attacked by evil forces. Here are a couple of verses to help:

John 16:33: "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

James 1:2-4:
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
:cool:


 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#12
Hi Maxwell., Maybe you should ask Paul Ellis yourself. You can contact him right on his web site. He answers people's questions all the time. If you check out his site., you will see it is sort of like a posting forum kind of format only not like it is here where we can answer within seconds or minutes of each another. He is not an American since he has a very different accent than us here in the USA. I heard one of his videos explaining some about his website. But that was a while ago.

I'm not nor have I ever been suspicious of him I suppose because I have read what he has written in depth and what he writes is in line with the Bible and my understanding of it. So as far as being suspicious of him., I have no need to be. He hasn't said anything I harshly disagree with. Although as I said., we don't see the end times the same but that is not a major problem IMO.

I'd say Paul E. is just a regular guy and if you ask., you can get an answer. Maybe your skills of searching things out on the internet are not so great OR maybe his business is just not out there for all to see? I have no idea. I'm sorry some people here are so suspicious of him., BUT lol., those same people here on CC also think wrong and wacky things about me too. Another reason I don't believe anything ill of Mr. Ellis. His words and his writings speak for themselves. As do mine.

 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,848
180
63
#13
Dr. Paul Ellis... who is he?

I don't know anything about Dr. Paul Ellis,
so I started researching him.
And guess what?
I STILL don't know anything about him?

Why?

Because I cannot find any credentials, of any kind, verifying anything about him, anywhere.

Maybe all the credentials he claims are true,
but it seems odd that he makes claims of credentials, without any verification, anywhere, of any of those credentials.
It seems odd.

Most people who are Doctors, and University Professors, are more than happy to tell you WHERE they received each of their degrees, and WHAT KIND OF DOCTOR they are, and WHAT UNIVERSITY they taught at, and in WHAT CAPACITY.
But not Dr. Ellis.
He has many websites, where all of his credentials remain completely mysterious.

Some of the claims:
1. Claims to be an award winning author
The Author - What if the good news was the best news you never heard?
2. Claims to be a former pastor
The Author - What if the good news was the best news you never heard?
3. Claims to be a former university professor
The Author - What if the good news was the best news you never heard?
4. Claims to be a Doctor

What I found about his claims and credentials:
After digging through several of his websites, and all info I could find about him, no matter how hard I looked, I could not find any awards he won, I could not find the name of a church he pastored, I could not not find any university where he was a professor, and I could find no information about him being a doctor.
In fact, I could not even find any undergraduate degrees.

Maybe all of his claims are true.
Maybe they are.
Maybe.
Maybe he's a Doctor and University Professor who's just too disorganized to list his credentials ANYWHERE.
Maybe.
But generally when someone claims to be a a Doctor, Pastor, or University Professor (and he claims ALL THREE) ... errr... they generally list, in plain site, all of their proper credentials, like when and where they earned each of their degrees, along with the churches they've pastored, and the universities where they've taught.

It seems Dr. Paul Ellis is man of mystery.




Is he full of the Holy Ghost?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#15
Is he full of the Holy Ghost?

I have no idea, and I wasn't addressing that.


However, if someone claims to have credentials he doesn't have (which he appears to be doing) then that kind of intentional deception would disqualify a person from having the proper qualifications of a pastor.




A man's integrity actually matters if we're going to listen to him exegete scripture... that's in the bible.

So, I think it's a serious matter to look into.
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,708
122
63
#16
The entire Bible is good for you, but you won’t get much out of it unless you know Jesus Christ. To understand the written word, you need to know the Living Word. Try to read the Bible without an appreciation of Jesus – who he is and what he has done – you may end up taking someone else’s medicine. Some verses will appear to contradict others and you will get confused.

In the first part of this study on God’s gifts, we looked at a sincere lady in the Bible who mistakenly believed that God gives us bad gifts like death and poverty. Today I want to look at a man who had a different problem. He believed that God gives us good gifts only to take them away again. You can probably guess that I’m talking about Job. Job had this one really bad week when his livestock were stolen, his servants were slain, and his kids were killed when a house fell on them. For some reason, Job thought God was behind his loss for he said:



The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised. (Job 1:21)

If there was ever a scripture that has led to some screwy notions about God’s character, it’s this one. Anyone who has suffered loss has probably heard this verse. It’s quoted at funerals. We sing songs about it. For some strange reason people seem to find comfort in believing that God is responsible for their loss.


Now don’t get me wrong – I love Job’s attitude. He’s saying that whatever happens in life, he’s going to praise the name of the Lord. But Job said some dumb things about God. Later on Job would come to regret his choice of words. “I spoke of things I did not understand” (Job 42:3).



The question stands: Does God give and take away?

Any picture we have of God needs to be informed by Jesus Christ. Jesus is the “radiance of God’s glory, the exact representation of his being” (Heb 1:3). To get a good understanding of God’s character, we need to look to Jesus, not Job. Can you imagine Jesus stealing or killing? Of course not. So how is it that some people think that God was responsible for Job’s loss?


“But Paul, it’s in the Bible, it’s right there in black and white.” Let me put it to you like this. If you want the very best insight into God’s character, are you better off looking at:

(a) Jesus, who said “anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9), or
(b) Job, who had only heard of God but did not actually know him (see Job 42:5)?



Jesus is the better choice! Jesus came to reveal God the Great Giver. Have you been given something good? Then see God as your source:

Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. (Jas 1:17)


Who’s robbing you?

But what if you have suffered loss, like Job? He lost his health, his wealth, and his family. The temptation may be to blame God for your loss, as if God had a change of heart. But God is not fickle. He does not change like shifting shadows. He is an extraordinary giver who never takes back his gifts.


God’s gifts and God’s call are under full warranty – never canceled, never rescinded. (Romans 11:29, MSG)

So if God is doing the giving, who is doing the taking? Again, Jesus provides the answer:
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. (John 10:10)
We ought not to be confused about these two different roles. One is a giver, the other is a taker. If you have been given something good, give thanks to God. But if you’ve been robbed, don’t blame God. He’s not behind your loss. And Satan is not his sheepdog.


Humans are spectacularly slow learners. From the beginning of human history the devil has been trying to steal or ruin everything God gave us and yet there are still some who think that God is the thief. God gave us authority over a planet and the devil took it. God gave us freedom and the devil somehow got us to choose the way of slavery. God gave us eternal life, health and glory, and we lost it all. But thank God for Jesus who took back what the devil stole.



Karma versus grace

If you think that God gives and takes away, you’ve missed the point of Jesus. Jesus came to reveal a generous Father and to destroy the work of the thief (1 Jn 3:8). Jesus came that we might have life to the full, not to the half.

If you think God gives and takes away, you have more faith in karma than grace. Karma says what goes around comes around. If you’re healthy now, you’ll be sick tomorrow. If you’re prospering now, poverty’s waiting around the next corner. When disappointments and hardships come, you won’t be surprised. You’ll just throw in the towel and say, “I knew it was too good to last.”



The world works according to the principle of give and take, but God just gives. The only thing he’ll take off you – if you let him – is your sin, your shame, your sickness, your worries, and your fears. He takes away those things that harm us and gives us good things that bless us.

Are you Job or David?

Both Job and David were robbed. Both were greatly distressed and surrounded by foolish men who gave bad advice. But unlike Job, David did a Jesusy-thing and took back what was stolen. Why did David fight back when Job quit? Because David “encouraged himself in the Lord his God” (1 Sam 30:6). In his pain David considered God’s goodness and realized that God was not behind his loss. He understood that it was not God’s will for him to suffer and, so strengthened, he fought back and prevailed.



I wish I could go back in time and get to Job before his friends did. I would say, “God didn’t kill your kids! He didn’t steal your livestock and make you sick. You’ve been robbed! The devil is having a go at you. Don’t sit there in the ashes and cry about it, get up and fight! Are you a victor or a victim?”



The church will never see victory if we think God is behind our suffering. If we think God is robbing us we won’t even resist. We’ll let the devil waltz in and plunder our families all the while singing “He gives and takes away.”

Funny, but I can’t imagine Jesus or David doing that.
This nut is just like Job's friends accusing Job of deserving what he got.
 

stonesoffire

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2013
7,848
180
63
#17

I have no idea, and I wasn't addressing that.


However, if someone claims to have credentials he doesn't have (which he appears to be doing) then that kind of intentional deception would disqualify a person from having the proper qualifications of a pastor.




A man's integrity actually matters if we're going to listen to him exegete scripture... that's in the bible.

So, I think it's a serious matter to look into.

1Co 2:4 My message and my preaching were not accompanied by clever, wise words, but by a display of the Spirit's power,


1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on God's power.
[h=2]Wisdom from the Spirit[/h]1Co 2:6 However, when we are among mature people, we do speak a message of wisdom, but not the wisdom of this world or of the rulers of this world, who are passing off the scene.


1Co 2:7 Instead, we speak about God's wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory.


1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."


1Co 2:10 But God has revealed those things to us by his Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God.


1Co 2:11 Is there anyone who can understand his own thoughts except his own inner spirit? In the same way, no one can know the thoughts of God except God's Spirit.

There is revelation.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,092
158
63
#18
Hello joaniemarie, you have been doing pretty good until now. On the first three points: God does not have to instigate an attack by Satan.

It states that God has put a hedge around us to keep bad things away. God does back off that hedge and allow the devil to manifest himself into our lives. Here is the hedge:
Job 1:10: "Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land."

Why do you suppose God allows us to be attacked by evil forces. Here are a couple of verses to help:

John 16:33: "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

James 1:2-4:
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
:cool:




Hi Deade., Well, I'm sure this won't be the first time you will not agree with all I post. :) Over the last year or so., I've discovered something major about other Christians Deade., Many are very intelligent and know many parts of the Bible really well. Some can even be teachers and pastors and evangelists in their denominations. Some know Greek and Hebrew!

But it's become a stark reality for me to discover that many Christians are like I was before coming to the knowledge of the truth that we human Christians don't know it all. Many Christians are acting out in their flesh when they are not willing to see the forest from the trees when they don't agree with another Christian about certain interpretations.

Nor will they look any further into the topic to get it cleared up. So sure are they in fact ... they will not find out if it is true or not. Since the accusation is based on things they don't agree with anyway., they are not interested in clearing it up. Or since they don't like the person in the first place because of something they heard. , or based on personality conflicts. It's much like only reading part of a letter. They totally miss the context and even refuse to read the the whole to get the context.


I've been on this site since 2013 and despite the thousands of words and posts I've written I'm still seen through a lens of prejudice by some here. Many people (Christians too) do not want to be confused with the facts. And to try to tell them is a waste of time until God intervenes and gives them insight to the contrary.
Sadly, this is the state of many believers in the body of Christ today. Their love has waxed cold.

Aside from that side note Deade., ., the tribulation we get doesn't come from God. Jesus tells us that we will have tribulation but it comes from 3 places.,... 1. The world 2. The flesh 3. The devil. We will have those 3 things to deal with the whole time we are here on planet earth. But make no mistake about it., God is not the author of evil or confusion.

That and other answers to your questions are in the posts by Paul E. as well on the topic of Job. You have but to look and read. I hope you do. Did Jesus ever send evil? If we want to see the Father., we look to Jesus.

The trying of our faith will come because we live here on this sinful planet but when we walk by faith and not by sight., we will see God is faithful at all times and in all situations. And that is why we can be joyful in the trials and the trying of our faith., because Jesus has already went before us and won the battle. As we trust in Him., we will see the victory lived out in our lives as He lives His live in and through us.

Gal.2:20 I am crucified with Christ., never the less I live...yet it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me.,.. and the life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.

As we walk in the Spirit we will see Jesus living His live out in us. This is to be counted pure JOY. The Holy Spirit is a in us and is our Teacher., Guide., Comforter., who will lead us into ALL truth as we go along.

John 7:37b-38

If any man is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink!
[SUP]38 [/SUP]He who believes in Me [who cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me] as the Scripture has said, From his innermost being shall flow [continuously] springs and rivers of living water.



So much more to this subject. This is the life of the Spirit lived out in our lives here. We can count it alllll JOY. Many are not joyful because they think it's God sending them evil and sickness and death. Oh dear this is false teaching.

 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,772
537
113
#19
This nut is just like Job's friends accusing Job of deserving what he got.
At least Job's friends were going by what they believed to be true at that time -- the righteous will not suffer but the unrighteous will. However Paul Ellis has absolutely no excuse for his false teachings, since the while Bible is before him.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
7,411
534
113
#20
1Co 2:4 My message and my preaching were not accompanied by clever, wise words, but by a display of the Spirit's power,


1Co 2:5 so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on God's power.
Wisdom from the Spirit

1Co 2:6 However, when we are among mature people, we do speak a message of wisdom, but not the wisdom of this world or of the rulers of this world, who are passing off the scene.


1Co 2:7 Instead, we speak about God's wisdom in a hidden secret, which God destined before the world began for our glory.


1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this world understood it, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


1Co 2:9 But as it is written, "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him."


1Co 2:10 But God has revealed those things to us by his Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God.


1Co 2:11 Is there anyone who can understand his own thoughts except his own inner spirit? In the same way, no one can know the thoughts of God except God's Spirit.

There is revelation.


Character Qualifications are a Necessity for Ministry:

A leader in the church, like a pastor or teacher, someone who leads and teaches, must have particular character qualifications.

These aren't invisible or mysterious, they are simple character qualities that everyone can easily see.

If a man doesn't have these character qualities, that are plain for all to see, then he is disqualified from ministry.



What are these Character Qualifications?


A pastor or leader cannot be a liar or deceiver, he is to be ABOVE REPROACH, and UPRIGHT, and HOLY... he cannot be someone who lies or deceives, or does any number of other bad things.

Tit 1:7 For an overseer {pastor}, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain,
Tit 1:8 but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined.


These qualifications apply, essentially, to anyone in a position of ministerial authority, like pastors, teachers, elders, etc.



What if a Minister Doesn't Possess These Character Qualities?

If a minister doesn't possess these character qualities, then no matter how much we like him, he is not fit for ministry.

If any man turns out to be an intentional liar, or deceiver, or various other things, he is unfit for ministry.

This is why we hear about certain ministers being "defrocked"... because they violate these sacred qualifications in scripture.



What about Dr. Paul Ellis?

I don't know if he's lying about many things or not.

He certainly seems EXTREMELY suspicious, in many different ways.

If it turns out he's lying about his credentials... then he's not fit for ministry.

Period.

Has nothing to do with me... it's in the Bible.



Let me reiterate... this is not debatable.
If it turns out he is intentionally lying about his credentials, then he is unfit for ministry, according to the Bible.
It has nothing to do with me.

I have nothing further to add, so I'm exiting the thread.





 
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