Some common misconceptions about God;

[joaniemarie]

Here's one of the thousands of promises we have about how much we can trust we are not going to be destroyed by God. Because we are loved and will always be loved as long as our Great High Priest lives... and He lives forever after the power of an endless life. As long as Jesus is our Mediator we will always be safe and sound righteous and accepted in the Beloved. Hebrews 6:10-20
[SUP]


10 [/SUP]For God is not unrighteous to forget or overlook your labor and the love which you have shown for His name’s sake in ministering to the needs of the saints (His own consecrated people), as you still do.
[SUP]
11 [/SUP]But we do [[SUP][a][/SUP]strongly and earnestly] desire for each of you to show the same diligence and sincerity [all the way through] in realizing and enjoying the full assurance and development of [your] hope until the end,
[SUP]
12 [/SUP]In order that you may not grow disinterested and become [spiritual] sluggards, but imitators, behaving as do those who through faith ([SUP][b][/SUP]by their leaning of the entire personality on God in Christ in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness) and by practice of patient endurance and waiting are [now] inheriting the promises.
[SUP]
13 [/SUP]For when God made [His] promise to Abraham, He swore by Himself, since He had no one greater by whom to swear,
[SUP]
14 [/SUP]Saying, Blessing I certainly will bless you and multiplying I will multiply you.
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]And so it was that he [Abraham], having waited long and endured patiently, realized and obtained [in the birth of Isaac as a pledge of what was to come] what God had promised him.
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]Men indeed swear by a greater [than themselves], and with them in all disputes the oath taken for confirmation is final [ending strife].
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]Accordingly God also, in His desire to show more convincingly and beyond doubt to those who were to inherit the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose and plan, intervened (mediated) with an oath.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]This was so that, by two unchangeable things [His promise and His oath] in which it is impossible for God ever to prove false or deceive us, we who have fled [to Him] for refuge might have mighty indwelling strength and strong encouragement to grasp and hold fast the hope appointed for us and set before [us].
[SUP]
19 [/SUP][Now] we have this [hope] as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul [it cannot slip and it cannot [SUP][c][/SUP]break down under whoever steps out upon it—a hope] that reaches [SUP][d][/SUP]farther and enters into [the very certainty of the Presence] within the veil,
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]Where Jesus has entered in for us [in advance], a Forerunner having become a High Priest forever after the order (with [SUP][e][/SUP]the rank) of Melchizedek.

 

[joaniemarie]

And then on to Hebrews 7:15-27 Speaks of Jesus our Great High Priest and the oath and promise God made. He didn't have to make an oath to us or swear by Himself for us. But He did so we can be assured even more so how much He has given us in His Son and how much we can count on the guarantee of the One who is our Guarantor (Jesus)


[SUP]15 [/SUP]And this becomes more plainly evident when another Priest arises Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek,
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]Who has been constituted a Priest, not on the basis of a bodily legal requirement [an externally imposed command concerning His physical ancestry], but on the basis of the power of an endless and indestructible Life.
[SUP]
17 [/SUP]For it is witnessed of Him, You are a Priest forever after the order (with the rank) of Melchizedek.
[SUP]
18 [/SUP]So a previous physical regulation and command is cancelled because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness—
[SUP]
19 [/SUP]For the Law never made anything perfect—but instead a better hope is introduced through which we [now] come close to God.
[SUP]
20 [/SUP]And it was not without the taking of an oath [that Christ was made Priest],
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]For those who formerly became priests received their office without its being confirmed by the taking of an oath by God, but this One was designated and addressed and saluted with an oath, The Lord has sworn and will not regret it or change His mind, You are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
[SUP]
22 [/SUP]In keeping with [the oath’s greater strength and force], Jesus has become the Guarantee of a better (stronger) agreement [a more excellent and more advantageous covenant].
[SUP]
23 [/SUP][Again, the former successive line of priests] was made up of many, because they were each prevented by death from continuing [perpetually in office];
[SUP]
24 [/SUP]But He holds His priesthood unchangeably, because He lives on forever.
[SUP]
25 [/SUP]Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.
[SUP]
26 [/SUP][Here is] the High Priest [perfectly adapted] to our needs, as was fitting—holy, blameless, unstained by sin, separated from sinners, and exalted higher than the heavens.
[SUP]
27 [/SUP]He has no day by day necessity, as [do each of these other] high priests, to offer sacrifice first of all for his own [personal] sins and then for those of the people, because He [met all the requirements] once for all when He brought Himself [as a sacrifice] which He offered up.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Ellis has a doctorate, but not in christian theology, or anything religious.

A doctorate in philosophy doesn't make a man a theologian.

Teaching business & marketing doesn't make a man a Bible teacher.

Putting "Doctor" beside his name as a Christian writer is misleading.

It's like applying for a pastorship saying he's a Christian college graduate when all he has is a Bachelor of Arts degree.

And for that, he's a fraud.

but it sure does make one a great salesman...

and of course that smile...I mean who could doubt his sincerity...

he states he was a pastor 'by accident'...guess he 'grew' into the job

[h=1]About Dr. Paul Ellis[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]I never meant to start a blog. You might say Escape to Reality came about by accident.
For 10 years my wife and I led a multicultural church in Hong Kong. That was an “accident” too. I never wanted to be a pastor. In fact, I couldn’t think of a job I wanted less. But God ambushed us and it was one of the best adventures of our lives.
[/FONT]
At the same time I was a professor at a gung-ho business school. I worked six days a week and led a church on Sundays. It nearly killed me.

work at a game preserve for 10 years, feeding the animals, and come out a with a PhD in Biology

that's what he's talkin 'bout!




[h=1]About Dr. Paul Ellis[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]I never meant to start a blog. You might say Escape to Reality came about by accident.
For 10 years my wife and I led a multicultural church in Hong Kong. That was an “accident” too. I never wanted to be a pastor. In fact, I couldn’t think of a job I wanted less. But God ambushed us and it was one of the best adventures of our lives.
At the same time I was a professor at a gung-ho business school. I worked six days a week and led a church on Sundays. It nearly killed me.
[/FONT]

 

[Chester]

Hi Finaldesire., This is where the major differences are I believe with many Christians. I know now and believe the truth that because of Jesus and His gift of salvation to us... God is never going to "destroy" me nor will He ever have a desire to destroy me. Or any of us.

He sent Jesus just so we do not have to be judged and destroyed. And He has recorded all through the Bible about His steadfast love and grace for us because of Jesus. Why not believe Him and rest and even bask in His love every day of our lives?? In Hebrews He gives us an iron clad promise and even an oath! We have a sure foundation and a Anchor for our souls!

Why do you and so many here visiting this thread think He would destroy us after all He has done to show us otherwise?? Jesus is the way we have already been "purged" and made righteous in Him. Now we are new creations.. old things have passed away behold all things have become new. There is no more condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.

The problem with many Christians today is they don't have this wonderful knowledge and because of that they are slowly dying. The Bible says my people die for lack of knowledge. The Gospel is the good news! Not the bad news.

Just calling to day to say here on this thread that Jesus has made our way clear.., now we simply follow Him through life. We have a new and living way to live. Set free from the law of sin and death and now able to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Difficulties, trials, pain, and suffering that God might send or allow a believer to go through are not "destroying" the person. Quite the opposite! Did the trial, and pain, and suffering of the cross destroy Jesus? Much the opposite!

Joaniemarie - Part of the problem is your perception of pain, sickness, and sorrow - it is not "bad" and "evil" Yes, it has come about because of the fall (Adam's sin), but God is now using it to further the work of the Kingdom in the lives of believers.

I choose to embrace suffering, trials, and sickness if God sends/allows them. Through them I will find deeper maturity, rest, and joy in Christ Jesus.

Jesus did not avoid the way of the cross, and He told his followers to "take up your cross, and follow me".

 

[7seasrekeyed]

As open-minded as "Doctor" Ellis is in his writing, you'd think he would tell on his site where he got his doctorate, & where he pastored, and everything else "important" he did.

his doctorate has nothing to do with the Bible as I already and several others posted and which,by now, you are most likely informed of

in his own words...he pastored by accident

now what that looks like, who knows. I do know however that I can become an artist if I buy a canvas, paints, paintbrush etc
but no guarantee what that work will look like

but I will still be an artist (sort of)

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

#4: God “allows” sickness and suffering to afflict us

I agree.

• "For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole." (Job 5.18).
  
• "Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy." (Mic 7.18).
• "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" (Phil 1.29).
• "For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:" (1Pe 2.19-21)
• "Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh." (2Co 4.10,11).

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I don't think that is a completely fair summation brother.

Joanie knows that I love her as a sister in Christ, but I believe she has gone waaay off the rails with the health and prosperity doctrines, and some of the takes on Job are quite frankly bizarre and beyond a stretch.

Having said that, as frustrating as we may become on an issue, I will say Joanie always responds in a cordial, nonhurtful way, even when others have not. This is a huge credit to her, and I think helps her position as wrong as I think that position is.

it's the pendulum swing effect

from Catholicism to anything goes

might right itself one day when the novelty wears off...well that and the fact that God is enduing anyone with magical powers

 

[joaniemarie]

I don't think that is a completely fair summation brother.

Joanie knows that I love her as a sister in Christ, but I believe she has gone waaay off the rails with the health and prosperity doctrines, and some of the takes on Job are quite frankly bizarre and beyond a stretch.

Having said that, as frustrating as we may become on an issue, I will say Joanie always responds in a cordial, nonhurtful way, even when others have not. This is a huge credit to her, and I think helps her position as wrong as I think that position is.

Hi PennEd., I appreciate and love you as a brother in Christ too. Even though we don't see eye to eye on certain subjects such as Job and healing in the atonement. Many people will say we are nuts for believing literally the promises in the Bible. But that is what it takes to be able to live them out. We are called to live by faith that Jesus is real in our day to day lives. Heb.11:1 And yes, it does go against human reasoning and what is revealed to our natural senses.

11 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

His promises do not depend on our meager human weaknesses and our lack of dependability. His dependability is where we need to go and He is always dependable to do what He says He will do. He will over take those weaknesses we have FOR us. Our flesh can and will over come us when we depend on it. I've learned I cannot depend on myself for anything.

I've also learned that for lack of the knowledge of the truth and believing it., many Christians (myself included) although they are sincere in their beliefs have perished or are perishing for lack of knowledge of the truth. As you can read here on this thread alone.,, many Christians are sincere in their belief that God is going to purge them., steal from them and even kill them should they not be faithful enough or please Him enough.

Or worse yet that God will teach us by whipping us into submission. Jesus is not even a factor in some of these cases as far as their understanding goes. They don't know Jesus has saved them from all condemnation and judgment.

I've discovered that God in Christ loves us into submission. He doesn't need to beat the sheep or get behind us and herd us with a whip. No., He is our Good Shepherd and He goes before the sheep., leading us. And the sheep "follow" of their own free will. No whips., no cattle prods. We are sheep., we are not cattle. The Holy Spirit never forces us to do anything.

It's not foolish or off the rails to be a willing participant in the process. Here is Psalms 23. It's not for the dead but for us living today. We won't need help in heaven., we need help now., we need wisdom., healing, leading., comfort, safety., and all those things pertaining to life and Godliness today in the here and now while we are on this pilgrim journey. (and we have it by faith and following)

Many of us Christians look at God as if He never sent Jesus. The Bible says if we want to see the Father we NEED to look at the Son. We are in the new covenant. The old is gone the new is here. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Many Christians are like me I've sadly found out.

I didn't even know the ministry of the Holy Spirit in my life except maybe to show me how to understand the Bible. Until only a few years ago I didn't even allow the Holy Spirit's power to flourish in my life. I was sorely lacking knowledge of the truth about the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the love and grace of God.

The Bible says God has not given us a spirit of fear but of POWER and LOVE and a SOUND MIND. Those things were already given to us when we got saved. We work out what Jesus has worked in us. The fruit will come out of us when we daily learn how to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. For many of us walking in the flesh is not about blatant sins like murder or cheating and stealing or adultery. We Christians are not doing that.

But what we ARE doing is walking in the flesh by living fearful lives and insisting on pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps having a "God helps those who help themselves" kind of attitude. God helps the helpless and the needy. And when we see that., we become sheep who follow after for all they are and need.


[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

 

[joaniemarie]

The Bible is full of humor and wisdom and if you don’t believe me, read this:
As you know, we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy. (James 5:11)
This verse makes me laugh and shout for joy. When you’re done reading this post, you’ll laugh and shout too. Guaranteed, or your money back.
The bit that makes me laugh


There is a long tradition of preaching on the patience of Job. You know how the story goes. Job suffered great loss but endured it patiently, a pious saint in sackcloth. He sat on the ash-heap refusing to blame God for his troubles.
It’s a nice story, but it’s a fairy tale. It’s the Disney version. Read the whole book of Job and you will find that Job wasn’t patient at all. In fact, Job was a self-pitying whiner who accused the Lord of many terrible things. A patient person would keep his troubles to himself, but for long chapter after long chapter Job whines about his misfortunes, brags about his good behavior, and wonders why God hates him.

I will not keep silent… I will complain in the bitterness of my soul. (Job 7:11)
Don’t ever hold Job up as a role model for patience. By his own admission, he was bitter and impatient:
Is my complaint directed to a human being? Why should I not be impatient? (Job 21:4)
A patient person doesn’t play the blame game, yet Job repeatedly blamed God for his troubles (e.g., Job 7:11). Job even said that God was trying to kill him:

I cry out to you, God, but you do not answer; I stand up, but you merely look at me. You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death. (Job 30:20-23)
A patientperson would tolerate trouble, but Job had more trouble than he could bear. Things were so bad that he hated his life and longed for death (Job 7:15-16). A patient person has hope, but Job wanted to die (Job 17:13-16).

So why is this funny? Because James says, “You have heard of the ‘patience’ of Job.” We sure have. Don’t you see? It’s a 2000-year-old in-joke, for Job wasn’t patient at all. Talking about “the patience of Job” is like talking about “the bravery of Gideon.”
James isn’t saying, “Be patient like Job.” He’s saying “see what the Lord brought about for this impatient man.”

Read to the end of Job’s story and you will know that everything worked out fine. Better than fine. God blessed him super-abundantly and he did so despite the terrible things Job said. Job thought the Lord was uncaring and heartless, but he learned that the Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

The bit that makes me shout


There’s some wonderful context here because James is writing to encourage us, and he does this by pointing to the famous “prophets of old” (James 5:10). In other words, if you’re looking for a model of patient endurance consider Isaiah who, according to tradition, was sawn in half or Zechariah who was stoned to death.
Gulp. “James, those guys are legends. I can’t relate to them.”
“In that case,” says James, “Let me remind you about the ‘patience’ of Job. You remember that fear-filled whiner who thought God was trying to kill him?”

And immediately James has our attention because, let’s be honest, Job-the-complainer is a lot more relatable than the prophet who walked around naked for three years. If my life went down the toilet I could quite easily imagine myself sitting in the ashes of self-pity like Job.
And this is why I’m not laughing at Job at all.

I’m so glad his story is in the Bible because it shows us that despite our weaknesses and shortcomings, God is still compassionate and merciful. He does not treat us as our sins deserve but he loves us like a father and wants the very best for us.

Are you going through tough times? Then be encouraged by these words of James:
You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy. (James 5:11)

The message of James is not “admire Job’s perseverance,” but fix your eyes on the Lord who helped Job persevere.
In the natural Job was a suicidal failure. Everything he trusted in – his sacrifices, his good behavior, his reasoning – failed him. But the Lord, who is full of compassion and mercy, saved him, restored him, and blessed him superabundantly.

This is good news that should make us shout for joy. If you are going through hard times and wondering if God is deaf or uncaring, then renew your mind and see the Lord who is full of compassion and mercy. Fix your eyes on Jesus and see what the Lord will bring about.
The same God who loved Impatient Job loves you!


Thank you Paul Ellis for taking the time to write.

 

[7777pinacled]

I have no use for Ellis's teaching. I know that Amazon and Goodreads are both quite careful when they do Bios and They would check things out before publishing possible falsehoods. Ellis has enough wrong with his teaching that it is not necessary to make issues where they do not exist. there is sufficient error to challenge him on without that.

Yes,
i agree with you, though not every member of the Body operates exactly the same.
Some members may have be given instructions on what to do with their keen eyes.

The warning has been given that the ellis psuedonym is a servant of the beast.

A further concern would be that There has been two efforts now to publish this false teaching lately.
I pray that the member of this forum that has used iyov(jobs) account to mislead the readers here has not been given over to the delusion.

 

[Deade]

Hello joaniemarie, I loved it when you talked about the patriarchs shortcomings: I’m so glad his story is in the Bible because it shows us that despite our weaknesses and shortcomings, God is still compassionate and merciful. He does not treat us as our sins deserve but he loves us like a father and wants the very best for us.

We are given examples of faith, but we are shown that they have weaknesses: even expressed lack of faith at times. Like Abraham between the time he left Ur, in faith, and the time he almost offered Isaac as a burnt offering:

Gen. 20:1,2: "And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar. And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah."

He did this because he was afraid that Sarah's beauty would get him killed, so the king could have his wife. The rest of that chapter show God's reaction to the affair. We are shown one of David's weaknesses with his ordeal with Bathsheba. God had to send a prophet to reprove him.

 

[Depleted]

Marc,

Thank you for posting something substantive.

Can you verify this is the same Paul Ellis who's writing books defending the hypergrace movement?



I saw nothing regarding any christian or religious works in the information you linked to.

I have no clue how to verify it; however, as someone who studied marketing on the just-a-bachelor's-degree level for communications at college, and yet still enjoys a good marketing book, while using the principles learned to market whatever I'm into at the moment, I can most certainly see the "truth" (marketing-style) of this CV from his marketing-tactics description of himself on his About Page.

It matches perfectly on how to remake yourself into something without the background in that field to back it up. I do give the guy marketing-creds on repackaging. He does have mad marketing skills. The kind that would come from his business background and his marketing background.

It's a bit like admiring an old-style used-car salesman. Shady, but effective marketing.

 

[Depleted]

Did you notice there is a W.A. school for business.
Whoever fabricated this psuedonym is a liar.

Um, I just looked. The school exists and yes, you can get a degree in business management.

Who is lying?

 

[Depleted]

Good heavens. I'm sure Marc has better things to do than search out more on Paul Ellis someone he doesn't even agree with. And is probably sorry he got involved. Even I don't care to search out Paul Ellis and I'm a fan of his. LOL. Marc... ((((((HUGS)))))))) for being a good guy and loving the brethren.

Obviously, and it showed in this whole thread that you are a fan of a guy you disagree with.

Odd, but true.

Becomes a problem when you then try to pass him off as someone to learn from.

 

[Depleted]

And to the rest of you guys who are suspicious.... have at it and search all you want and enjoy yourselves. It looks to be the way you rock and roll. As for myself., I'm not joining in. My reasons for sharing on CC are very different than yours. I'll be continuing on that path of freedom and blessing and thanking Jesus for it.

That's the thing I don't get. Why are you sharing what you disagree with?

 

[Depleted]

the Hyper-Grace Gospel author Ellis claims he had a church in Hong Kong, the marketing scholar Ellis went to Hong Kong Polytechnic. That's the only connection I can find.

The pastor who married hubby and me had a degree in electric engineering. No degree in theology whatsoever.

He got the job because he was an elder of high standing in the church when the first pastor had to step down for martial infidelity, and then the next pastor ended up being a charlatan, (and a wine seller, of all things. lol) The members of the church just wanted someone they could trust, and the pastor who married us was trustworthy. (Not a very good teacher, but trustworthy.)

It happens, and happens often in nondenom churches.

If that was the only "problem" I had with Ellis -- no problem. (BTW IT and marketing, so that explains why he got a job at a technical university.)

Frankly, that the guy was out-and-out just WRONG about what the Bible says, and promoting the exact opposite of what the Bible says ought to have been the sounding alarm going off here. Now everyone is stuck on his background.

How about his foreground?

To me this is like catching a kid with arms fully loaded with cookies right next to the cookie jar, and everyone is arguing which kind of cookie jar it is. The kid shouldn't be armloaded with cookies! Who cares about the cookie jar?

 

[Depleted]

The Amazon Bio speaks of him teaching at a prominent Hong Kong business school. The Credentials fit.

The Bio mentions that he is a transplant from western Australia. The credentials fit.

the Bio refers to him as a respected scholar in Asian business. The credentials fit.

I am satisfied it is the same person.

Marc,
This is sheer nosiness from me. I'm trying to get a novel published right now, so really get into awards given to books too.

That said, and knowing you read a lot of Christian books, do you know any awards given for supposedly non-fiction Christian books? His bio says something about "numerous award winning." Who gives out awards for Christian non-fiction?

That struck me strange because even textbooks don't get awards. lol

 

[7777pinacled]

Um, I just looked. The school exists and yes, you can get a degree in business management.

Who is lying?

if i were to venture a guess, perhaps a firm or thinktank type business. And who lied is inconsequential to the readers here.
What was typed is that elihu(the liar) in iyovs account was compared to Yeshua(Jesus.

Which is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and end of discussion.

 

[PennEd]

Hi PennEd., I appreciate and love you as a brother in Christ too. Even though we don't see eye to eye on certain subjects such as Job and healing in the atonement. Many people will say we are nuts for believing literally the promises in the Bible. But that is what it takes to be able to live them out. We are called to live by faith that Jesus is real in our day to day lives. Heb.11:1 And yes, it does go against human reasoning and what is revealed to our natural senses.

11 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

His promises do not depend on our meager human weaknesses and our lack of dependability. His dependability is where we need to go and He is always dependable to do what He says He will do. He will over take those weaknesses we have FOR us. Our flesh can and will over come us when we depend on it. I've learned I cannot depend on myself for anything.

I've also learned that for lack of the knowledge of the truth and believing it., many Christians (myself included) although they are sincere in their beliefs have perished or are perishing for lack of knowledge of the truth. As you can read here on this thread alone.,, many Christians are sincere in their belief that God is going to purge them., steal from them and even kill them should they not be faithful enough or please Him enough.

Or worse yet that God will teach us by whipping us into submission. Jesus is not even a factor in some of these cases as far as their understanding goes. They don't know Jesus has saved them from all condemnation and judgment.

I've discovered that God in Christ loves us into submission. He doesn't need to beat the sheep or get behind us and herd us with a whip. No., He is our Good Shepherd and He goes before the sheep., leading us. And the sheep "follow" of their own free will. No whips., no cattle prods. We are sheep., we are not cattle. The Holy Spirit never forces us to do anything.

It's not foolish or off the rails to be a willing participant in the process. Here is Psalms 23. It's not for the dead but for us living today. We won't need help in heaven., we need help now., we need wisdom., healing, leading., comfort, safety., and all those things pertaining to life and Godliness today in the here and now while we are on this pilgrim journey. (and we have it by faith and following)

Many of us Christians look at God as if He never sent Jesus. The Bible says if we want to see the Father we NEED to look at the Son. We are in the new covenant. The old is gone the new is here. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Many Christians are like me I've sadly found out.

I didn't even know the ministry of the Holy Spirit in my life except maybe to show me how to understand the Bible. Until only a few years ago I didn't even allow the Holy Spirit's power to flourish in my life. I was sorely lacking knowledge of the truth about the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the love and grace of God.

The Bible says God has not given us a spirit of fear but of POWER and LOVE and a SOUND MIND. Those things were already given to us when we got saved. We work out what Jesus has worked in us. The fruit will come out of us when we daily learn how to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. For many of us walking in the flesh is not about blatant sins like murder or cheating and stealing or adultery. We Christians are not doing that.

But what we ARE doing is walking in the flesh by living fearful lives and insisting on pulling ourselves up by our own bootstraps having a "God helps those who help themselves" kind of attitude. God helps the helpless and the needy. And when we see that., we become sheep who follow after for all they are and need.


[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Lord is my Shepherd [to feed, guide, and shield me], I shall not lack.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]He makes me lie down in [fresh, tender] green pastures; He leads me beside the still and restful waters.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]He refreshes and restores my life (my self); He leads me in the paths of righteousness [uprightness and right standing with Him—not for my earning it, but] for His name’s sake.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]Yes, though I walk through the [deep, sunless] valley of the shadow of death, I will fear or dread no evil, for You are with me; Your rod [to protect] and Your staff [to guide], they comfort me.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with [SUP][a][/SUP]oil; my [brimming] cup runs over.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Surely or only goodness, mercy, and unfailing love shall follow me all the days of my life, and through the length of my days the house of the Lord [and His presence] shall be my dwelling place.

Hi Joanie. My lack of computer skills prevents me from unpacking this as I should. So I'll take it as a whole and generalize a bit.

I know it sounds condescending, but I sincerely do not mean it this way when I say I think you have really twisted and mangled things here. I feel like you have been hurt and somebody filled your head with some of this crazy stuff.

If I'm reading you right, you believe there are some Christians who's faith is strong enough, AND HAS BEEN STRONG ENOUGH, that they haven't physically died? That perhaps there are many century old humans that have the faith to be hundreds of yrs old?

Why don't you think I don't believe the promises of God? I simply don't interpret those promises the same way you do. I absolutely take the Bible literally. But all those promises have to be in accord with God's Will, NOT mine. And I trust His Will for my life.

God is ultimately in control. Now whether He allows sicknesses, causes sicknesses due to our sin, allows satan to inflict sicknesses is entirely irrelevant to the fact that He uses those sicknesses and afflictions for His Glory and our ultimate good. THAT'S what I trust God to do for me in ANY situation.

THIS LIFE IS TEMPORARY! We should WANT it to be temporary. Paul CERTAINLY understood that in saying to live is Christ and to die is gain.

ALL this doesn't mean the Lord can't Bless us with health and prosperity in this life. He can, and sometimes does. And boy, few have been blessed throughout history like those of us in the West today.

I trust Jesus for my eternal salvation as well as my day to day walk. And I pray He will use me for His Glory. THOSE are the stripes He has healed. I want to be with Him eternally in my Glorified body, NOT this body of death! In the meantime, I pray I am able to be used of Him to bring others into an eternal state with Him.

 

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As open-minded as "Doctor" Ellis is in his writing, you'd think he would tell on his site where he got his doctorate, & where he pastored, and everything else "important" he did.

No. Really not. That's just bad marketing.

(And I'm not being sarcastic for a change.)

It's all about perception. Already people are claiming that unless a person has a degree in theology, they can't talk about God honestly. People really believe this one one side. And yet, on the other side, they do it all the time themselves.

Marketing is all about showing the benefits and hiding the deterrents. Ellis really is a good marketer.

Stinks big time for theology, but a good marketer.