Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

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CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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I've been wondering how wrong you can be but it takes me to a truth that I cannot reveal on the forums. In Luke 11 verse 13 we have the promise made to every believer. Jesus is going to give us the gift of the Holy Spirit. We receive the Holy Spirit when we receive Christ as Savior. We did not seek Christ but Christ sought us. We could not come to Christ except the Father draw us to Christ. We could not receive Christ except the Holy Spirit convict us of sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come.

God is sovereign and it is not by the will of man that we are saved but by the determinate will of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Hahahahah rotfl oh my that was so funny LOL "a truth that I cannot reveal on this forums"
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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you first did then you corrected it so you can't use that they did not teach the doctrine of initial evidence because they are not authoritative. The Context of Initial evidence is in the Book of Acts you agree or don't. Interjecting the church fathers and reformers in moot. If you did not hold them as authoritative you should have not used them LOL.
Well, you can defend your view with what you want.
The fact, that this teaching was not found in bible taught and also not in the entire churchhistory till 1900 proofes me, that this teaching is wrong.
And that it not taught in churchhistory, is not autorative, but is a witness that it not was taught in the bible.
The main point is the fact that this was not taught in the bible to believers.
And your teaching is so biblical as the teaching of the JW is. They useing also the scripture for their doctrines.
Only to create a doctrine out of the word of God makes it not biblical.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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there you go the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when it happens as shown in the Word of God all spoke in tongues or prophesied. Don't need any more than the word of God to show that.
I got the babtism with the Holy Spirit and the gift he gave me was to distinguish the spirits.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,120
902
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Well, you can defend your view with what you want.
The fact, that this teaching was not found in bible taught and also not in the entire churchhistory till 1900 proofes me, that this teaching is wrong.
And that it not taught in churchhistory, is not autorative, but is a witness that it not was taught in the bible.
The main point is the fact that this was not taught in the bible to believers.
And your teaching is so biblical as the teaching of the JW is. They useing also the scripture for their doctrines.
Only to create a doctrine out of the word of God makes it not biblical.
wrong!
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,120
902
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I got the babtism with the Holy Spirit and the gift he gave me was to distinguish the spirits.
LOL I don't think so, everyone who claims to be spiritual says that LOL. And from your post, you lack in that area too. The Holy Spirit does not give to a person the gift, He uses the person in a gift for the betterment of all the body read 1cor 12. I do not claim I have a gift, I say that I have been used in the Gifts and open to all the ones the Holy Spirit desires to use me in.

You really don't know what you are talking about. I have nothing to do with JW's your so-called gift of distinguishing the spirits must be turned off.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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And it is also not discussed ore taught in Acts to other believers.
Nowhere i find the Statement: And all who receiving ore filled with the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues as proof for that.
But i find in 1. Cor. 12,30 Pauls statement that not all will receive the Gift of speaking in tongues.
...which we see today.
Not all recieve it. Yourself included.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Yes i did, but for what? Where i say something that the reformators ore churchfathets are equal with what the bible says?
No,but you had to take a compromised position and just assume it was never taught.
You assume it. You don't know it. You just need it to be true.
You hope the Holy Spirit is through with power.
You actually hope that.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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I said we have to proof/test the spirit, as the scripture said. Not everybody who claimes to has the spirit of God has him realy. It is possible to follow a spirit of lie.
And we know from our Lord that not all who doing miracles in his name and call him Lord, are his children.

And we also know that the deceiving from Satan is in this way, that he comes as angel of the light.
What means it seems right what he is telling.
And again, this teaching I find startet in 1900. So it is not biblical. Even it sounds so.
You actually see yourself as an agent for limiting God.
You herold that you can prove God lost any interest in empowering His church.
If someone is translated in the spirit to some other country,you,no doubt would chide in and say that was the devil that did that.

But we that belong to Jesus know who we are of.
You are just a humanoid on a mission to muddy up the awesome power given to beleivers.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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And it is also not discussed ore taught in Acts to other believers.
Nowhere i find the Statement: And all who receiving ore filled with the Holy Spirit will speak in tongues as proof for that.
But i find in 1. Cor. 12,30 Pauls statement that not all will receive the Gift of speaking in tongues.
You do not understand that being filled with the Holy Spirit or what is known the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not what Paul is talking about in 1cor chapter 12 to 14. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are used in the Spirit-filled believer as The Holy Spirit empowers one in that gift. We are told to desire the gifts, be willing to be used in them, you find that in 1cor chapter 12. The initial speaking in tongues when a believer is baptized in the Holy Spirit may never speak in tongues again. Thus the evidence of one baptized in the Spirit Acts 2 and the one being used in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit 1cor 12 to 14.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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I got the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the gift he gave me was to distinguish the spirits.
This reply really isn't to address the quoted post, but rather because I want to ask you something as a friend.

I am pre-apologizing because I feel I talk too matter-of-factly and believe that way of speaking doesn't convey love. I'll also admit that on occasion my words toward you have been spoken of knowledge but perhaps not of love. And I"m not saying these things to butter you up or set you up for a trick. I'm just making my best effort to be honest and transparent.

Ok... having said that, I'll get to question that was promised from a place of friendliness.

Forgetting the title of this thread (or any other)... What is it that YOU really want to tell people?

This structure of a forum allows you to start any kind of thread you want. And that means you are free to teach and tell anyone and everyone whichever good things about God that you desire. Have I overlooked your thread(s)... or are they yet to be written?

This particular thread was created to be able to teach people HOW to properly speak in tongues, how to get it, how to operate in it, what its limitations are, and the same for the other spiritual gifts. I put that purpose in the first posting, but it doesn't seem that you are trying to fulfill that particular purpose.

You yourself have suggested a few times that you believe you have a spiritual gift, but where is the teaching of other people how to get that particular gift? Or how to allow God to use us in its operation? Or how to get or operate in any other gifts?

And if your purpose in this thread is not to teach people how to use tongues or any spiritual gift, are you only being used to hinder them? Would you consider that a Godly purpose, seeing you suggest you have a spiritual gift yourself? (I wouldn't).

If you don't think a person is required to speak in tongues, that's fine. You're welcome to not have that gift, not use that gift, and not teach how to use it. But are you going to go so far as to teach that no-one is allowed to have or operate in it? Or would you suggest that the gift you claim to have is somehow the only one that is allowed? Or, more likely, are you thinking there is something more important that people ought to know instead of talking about tongues and gifts?

Again, the idea that this is a forum allows you to start a thread teaching good and truth on ANYTHING you want. If you think there is something more important than tongues that needs to be taught , etc, have you started a thread that teaches on that topic?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,120
902
113
This reply really isn't to address the quoted post, but rather because I want to ask you something as a friend.

I am pre-apologizing because I feel I talk too matter-of-factly and believe that way of speaking doesn't convey love. I'll also admit that on occasion my words toward you have been spoken of knowledge but perhaps not of love. And I"m not saying these things to butter you up or set you up for a trick. I'm just making my best effort to be honest and transparent.

Ok... having said that, I'll get to question that was promised from a place of friendliness.

Forgetting the title of this thread (or any other)... What is it that YOU really want to tell people?

This structure of a forum allows you to start any kind of thread you want. And that means you are free to teach and tell anyone and everyone whichever good things about God that you desire. Have I overlooked your thread(s)... or are they yet to be written?

This particular thread was created to be able to teach people HOW to properly speak in tongues, how to get it, how to operate in it, what its limitations are, and the same for the other spiritual gifts. I put that purpose in the first posting, but it doesn't seem that you are trying to fulfill that particular purpose.

You yourself have suggested a few times that you believe you have a spiritual gift, but where is the teaching of other people how to get that particular gift? Or how to allow God to use us in its operation? Or how to get or operate in any other gifts?

And if your purpose in this thread is not to teach people how to use tongues or any spiritual gift, are you only being used to hinder them? Would you consider that a Godly purpose, seeing you suggest you have a spiritual gift yourself? (I wouldn't).

If you don't think a person is required to speak in tongues, that's fine. You're welcome to not have that gift, not use that gift, and not teach how to use it. But are you going to go so far as to teach that no-one is allowed to have or operate in it? Or would you suggest that the gift you claim to have is somehow the only one that is allowed? Or, more likely, are you thinking there is something more important that people ought to know instead of talking about tongues and gifts?

Again, the idea that this is a forum allows you to start a thread teaching good and truth on ANYTHING you want. If you think there is something more important than tongues that needs to be taught , etc, have you started a thread that teaches on that topic?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

very good post, it appears one may be fighting between to understandings one of what they have been taught and the other or what they have experienced. Kind of like the person who says "God does not heal today " But God heals them of something and they are now in a dilemma.

many people have actually been filled and have spoken in tongues in their sleep have done one time and do not care to do it again. The Holy Will does not force HIMself on to a person. and it is Ok.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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very good post, it appears one may be fighting between to understandings one of what they have been taught and the other or what they have experienced. Kind of like the person who says "God does not heal today " But God heals them of something and they are now in a dilemma.

many people have actually been filled and have spoken in tongues in their sleep have done one time and do not care to do it again. The Holy Will does not force HIMself on to a person. and it is Ok.
"Many people have actually been filled"......

Filled with what?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,075
3,196
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The Holy Ghost.

You are a believer. But there is a difference between being a believer and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
No. There is a difference between the Holy Spirit coming "upon" someone and the Holy Spirit "indwelling" someone. Here is a good summation of the difference. But make no mistake, if you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, you are not saved. ALL born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

What is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Got questions
Question: "What is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?"

Answer: The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the action by which God takes up permanent residence in the body of a believer in Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament, the Spirit would come and go from the saints, empowering them for service but not necessarily remaining with them (see Judges 15:14; 1 Chronicles 12:18; Psalm 51:11; Ezekiel 11:5). Jesus revealed to His disciples the new role the Spirit of Truth would play in their lives: “He lives with you and will be in you” (John 14:17). The apostle Paul wrote, “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body” (1 Corinthians 6:19–20).

These verses are telling us that the believer in Jesus Christ has the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, living in him. When an individual accepts Christ as personal Savior, the Holy Spirit gives the believer the life of God, eternal life, which is really His very nature (Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:4), and the Holy Spirit comes to live within him spiritually. The fact that the believer’s body is likened to a temple where the Holy Spirit lives helps us understand what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is all about. The word temple is used to describe the Holy of Holies, the inner sanctum in the Old Testament tabernacle structure. There, God’s presence would appear in a cloud and meet the high priest, who came once a year into the Holy of Holies. On the Day of Atonement, the high priest brought the blood of a slain animal and sprinkled it on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant. On this special day, God granted forgiveness to the priest and His people.

Today, there is no Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and the animal sacrifices have ceased. The believer in Christ has become the inner sanctum of God the Holy Spirit, as the believer has been sanctified and forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:7). The believer in Christ becomes the habitation of the Holy Spirit of God. In fact, Scripture also says that the believer is indwelt spiritually by Christ (Colossians 1:27) and by God the Father (1 John 4:15)—the Trinity is involved.

As the Holy Spirit lives in the believer, He brings about some life-changing results:

1) The indwelling Spirit comes to a soul dead in sin and creates new life (Titus 3:5). This is the new birth Jesus spoke of in John 3:1–8.

2) The indwelling Spirit confirms to the believer that he belongs to the Lord and is an heir of God and fellow-heir with Christ (Romans 8:15–17).

3) The indwelling Spirit installs the new believer as a member of Christ’s universal church. This is the baptism of the Spirit, according to 1 Corinthians 12:13.

4) The indwelling Spirit gives spiritual gifts (God-given abilities for service) to the believer to edify the church and serve the Lord effectively for His glory (1 Corinthians 12:11).

5) The indwelling Spirit helps the believer understand and apply the Scripture to his daily life (1 Corinthians 2:12).

6) The indwelling Spirit enriches the believer’s prayer life and intercedes for him in prayer (Romans 8:26–27).

7) The indwelling Holy Spirit empowers the yielded believer to live for Christ to do His will (Galatians 5:16). The Spirit leads the believer in paths of righteousness (Romans 8:14).

8) The indwelling Spirit gives evidence of new life by producing the fruit of the Spirit in the believer’s life (Galatians 5:22–23).

9) The indwelling Spirit is grieved when the believer sins (Ephesians 4:30), and He convicts the believer to confess his sin to the Lord so that fellowship is restored (1 John 1:9).

10) The indwelling Spirit seals the believer unto the day of redemption so that the believer’s arrival in the Lord’s presence is guaranteed after this life (Ephesians 1:13–14).

When you accept Christ as your Savior (Romans 10:9–13), the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart, bringing with Him an entirely new life of love, relationship, and service to the Lord.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,120
902
113
"Many people have actually been filled"......

Filled with what?
thank you for the correct I mean to say Baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. We are to be filled and all believers have the Holy Spirit.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,120
902
113
No. There is a difference between the Holy Spirit coming "upon" someone and the Holy Spirit "indwelling" someone. Here is a good summation of the difference. But make no mistake, if you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, you are not saved. ALL born again believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

What is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Got questions
Question: "What is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?"

Answer: The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the action by which God takes up permanent residence in the body of a believer in Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament, the Spirit would come and go from the saints, empowering them for service but not necessarily remaining with them (see Judges 15:14; 1 Chronicles 12:18; Psalm 51:11; Ezekiel 11:5). Jesus revealed to His disciples the new role the Spirit of Truth would play in their lives: “He lives with you and will be in you” (John 14:17). The apostle Paul wrote, “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body” (1 Corinthians 6:19–20).

These verses are telling us that the believer in Jesus Christ has the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, living in him. When an individual accepts Christ as personal Savior, the Holy Spirit gives the believer the life of God, eternal life, which is really His very nature (Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:4), and the Holy Spirit comes to live within him spiritually. The fact that the believer’s body is likened to a temple where the Holy Spirit lives helps us understand what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is all about. The word temple is used to describe the Holy of Holies, the inner sanctum in the Old Testament tabernacle structure. There, God’s presence would appear in a cloud and meet the high priest, who came once a year into the Holy of Holies. On the Day of Atonement, the high priest brought the blood of a slain animal and sprinkled it on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant. On this special day, God granted forgiveness to the priest and His people.

Today, there is no Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and the animal sacrifices have ceased. The believer in Christ has become the inner sanctum of God the Holy Spirit, as the believer has been sanctified and forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:7). The believer in Christ becomes the habitation of the Holy Spirit of God. In fact, Scripture also says that the believer is indwelt spiritually by Christ (Colossians 1:27) and by God the Father (1 John 4:15)—the Trinity is involved.

As the Holy Spirit lives in the believer, He brings about some life-changing results:

1) The indwelling Spirit comes to a soul dead in sin and creates new life (Titus 3:5). This is the new birth Jesus spoke of in John 3:1–8.

2) The indwelling Spirit confirms to the believer that he belongs to the Lord and is an heir of God and fellow-heir with Christ (Romans 8:15–17).

3) The indwelling Spirit installs the new believer as a member of Christ’s universal church. This is the baptism of the Spirit, according to 1 Corinthians 12:13.

4) The indwelling Spirit gives spiritual gifts (God-given abilities for service) to the believer to edify the church and serve the Lord effectively for His glory (1 Corinthians 12:11).

5) The indwelling Spirit helps the believer understand and apply the Scripture to his daily life (1 Corinthians 2:12).

6) The indwelling Spirit enriches the believer’s prayer life and intercedes for him in prayer (Romans 8:26–27).

7) The indwelling Holy Spirit empowers the yielded believer to live for Christ to do His will (Galatians 5:16). The Spirit leads the believer in paths of righteousness (Romans 8:14).

8) The indwelling Spirit gives evidence of new life by producing the fruit of the Spirit in the believer’s life (Galatians 5:22–23).

9) The indwelling Spirit is grieved when the believer sins (Ephesians 4:30), and He convicts the believer to confess his sin to the Lord so that fellowship is restored (1 John 1:9).

10) The indwelling Spirit seals the believer unto the day of redemption so that the believer’s arrival in the Lord’s presence is guaranteed after this life (Ephesians 1:13–14).

When you accept Christ as your Savior (Romans 10:9–13), the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart, bringing with Him an entirely new life of love, relationship, and service to the Lord.
I am not talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that is not the same as the Empowering of the Holy Spirit which Jesus said in the Gospel of John chapter 14
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,075
3,196
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I am not talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that is not the same as the Empowering of the Holy Spirit which Jesus said in the Gospel of John chapter 14
I think you'd be surprised at how many do NOT see, or believe, there is a difference between the Holy Spirit indwelling, sealing, and forever positionaly saving a believer , with the Holy Spirit coming "upon" someone.

The former is permanent, the latter can be temporary.