Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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The parable of the 10 virgins shows the outpouring/receiving as a continuous supply.
They ,all 10,were saved / virgins / undefiled / christians,but 5 ran low,then completely out of oil/the Holy Spirit.
Then they asked the 5 wise to impart some of theirs. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is received,then MAINTAINED in a continual flow. A river of power and life to be shared.

Likewise the job of the worship leader in the congregation is to bring the congregation into the Holy of Holies.
Into His presence. Where infilling,refreshing and power is imparted over and over.

It is a flow.
well, it is the job of the individual person in a personal relationship to seek the Lord and come expecting. The person brings their praise to God and HE inhabits their praises. refreshing, reviving, and refilling or filled again is an ongoing experience in the believer.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Maby, you are mislead in interpreting the from you mentioned acts verses?
why not provide your application of Acts in the verses used and see if that is so?
 

Waggles

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what participation did you have in your Spiritual Birth?
I believed the gospel of salvation. I repented of my sinful ways.
I obeyed the commandments of Jesus as my Lord and Saviour …
> I submerged myself in the waters of baptism confessing my faith > I sought to be baptized in the Holy Spirit by asking Jesus to
receive the Holy Spirit > I spoke in a new God-given tongue when I was filled with the Holy Spirit > I pray everyday in my new tongue to activate the power and purpose of the Holy Spirit within me.
 

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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I believed the gospel of salvation. I repented of my sinful ways.
I obeyed the commandments of Jesus as my Lord and Saviour …
> I submerged myself in the waters of baptism confessing my faith > I sought to be baptized in the Holy Spirit by asking Jesus to
receive the Holy Spirit > I spoke in a new God-given tongue when I was filled with the Holy Spirit > I pray everyday in my new tongue to activate the power and purpose of the Holy Spirit within me.

Congratulations! You did it! The eight"I"s that YOU did to get saved in your post equals the 8 "I Am"s that Jesus said in John!
 

Waggles

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The thing in this parable that is puzzling to me is verse 12: "But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not." Matt 25:12
If the five virgins were at one time filled with the Holy Ghost then the bridegroom would have surely known them.
Is it plausible that the 5 wise virgins were equipped with lamps to light their way (word of God that the Holy Ghost illuminates), and their vessels (bodies) were indwelt with the oil. (the Holy Ghost) Matt 25:4
Whereas the foolish virgins neglected to have oil (the Holy Ghost) inside their vessels. (bodies) Matt 25:3
This concept would seem to line-up with the Holy Ghost dwelling with someone, rather than inside of them.
NO this parable is about Christian discipleship in which "virgins" (the church) are filled with the Holy Spirit - the Holy Spirit indwells us;
there is no other way in the NT.
But as we all know not everyone who receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit and prays in tongues remains faithful.
In the parable of the sower and the seed 3 out of the 4 persons who receive the word of God do not make it.
Many depart and leave the faith and eventually deny the Holy Spirit and stop praying in tongues. Their lamps (bodies) lose their
oil and become empty; they become carnal.
But when the world is on fire rather than seeking to repent they will come to those who are faithful to seek prayers and protection
from the faithful.

Matthew 7:21-23 speaks to this as well; describing Spirit-filled Christians (with a clear reference to Mark 16:17-18) who do not endure;
who do not keep the faith; who do not remain unblemished and purified through the power and work of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:23
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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I think it was your MOM'S body that did ALL the work to birth you. SHE was the one in labor pains and pushed to birth you. You are the result of HER work and efforts. And we all know you didn't have anything to do with your conception as well! lol

SAME as your Spiritual Birth. You were nothing. DEAD. UNABLE to conceive yourself.

....

So seeing how it was the Lord that rescued you from your dead state, conceiving you, drawing you to Him in labor pains, through patience, giving you the faith by which you were born, and putting His Holy Spirit in you at that time, I ask again, what participation did you have in your Spiritual Birth?
One thing I will try to do is to be "real" in my answers to you. By that, I mean I will attempt to be very open and honest, and try to avoid defensiveness. That also means (at least in this case) I will share some concepts that I understand to be so, but don't claim to have the ability to explain how or why it is that way.. :). I'll do my best to explain but when you ask for more detail than I currently can make available, I may end up saying "Hey, this is something you'll need to pray about." (and I do hope that you will PRAY about them). That doesn't mean you can't grill me. Just do it in friendship rather than persecution.

That was longer than expected, so I'll start answering in next post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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One thing I will try to do is to be "real" in my answers to you. By that, I mean I will attempt to be very open and honest, and try to avoid defensiveness. That also means (at least in this case) I will share some concepts that I understand to be so, but don't claim to have the ability to explain how or why it is that way.. :). I'll do my best to explain but when you ask for more detail than I currently can make available, I may end up saying "Hey, this is something you'll need to pray about." (and I do hope that you will PRAY about them). That doesn't mean you can't grill me. Just do it in friendship rather than persecution.

That was longer than expected, so I'll start answering in next post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Well if you are my brother in Christ, I am not only commanded to be your friend, but also to love you. I have a perspective and understanding on Scriptures same as you do. I believe my perspective is the right one. If I didn't, I wouldn't believe it! And I will try and to get others to see things my way. I fully recognize though that I am almost CERTAINLY NOT right on every issue. NO ONE is.

But don't confuse that expression of my perspective with "grilling" you, and PERSECUTION? Really!?. Or, don't think that I haven't or continue, to pray on a whole host of matters.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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Brother Penn,
please know how precious you are to so many of us here, in this arena that our Saviour
has made available to us all...
:):)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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NO this parable is about Christian discipleship in which "virgins" (the church) are filled with the Holy Spirit - the Holy Spirit indwells us;
there is no other way in the NT.
But as we all know not everyone who receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit and prays in tongues remains faithful.
In the parable of the sower and the seed 3 out of the 4 persons who receive the word of God do not make it.
Many depart and leave the faith and eventually deny the Holy Spirit and stop praying in tongues. Their lamps (bodies) lose their
oil and become empty; they become carnal.
But when the world is on fire rather than seeking to repent they will come to those who are faithful to seek prayers and protection
from the faithful.

Matthew 7:21-23 speaks to this as well; describing Spirit-filled Christians (with a clear reference to Mark 16:17-18) who do not endure;
who do not keep the faith; who do not remain unblemished and purified through the power and work of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:23
The point that I am questioning in this parable is that Jesus states that He never knew them. He did that as well in Matthew 7:23 that you quote. If they were truly converted believers it would seem that Jesus' comment would not be that they were never known. It would be an inaccurate statement.
Any thoughts?
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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I think it was your MOM'S body that did ALL the work to birth you. SHE was the one in labor pains and pushed to birth you. You are the result of HER work and efforts. And we all know you didn't have anything to do with your conception as well! lol

SAME as your Spiritual Birth. You were nothing. DEAD. UNABLE to conceive yourself.

Matthew 8:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Obviously Jesus wasn't talking about a physically dead person having the ability to bury another physically dead person.
Ephesians 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

So this is the position we are in:
1 Corinthians 2:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


UNTIL!!!!! The Father reaches out and rescues the person by...

John 6:44 New King James Version (NKJV)
44 NO ONE
can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

THEN, it is the LORD that enables us to believe by giving us the faith to believe in Him:

Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, AND THAT(the faith) not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Culminating in your Spiritual Birth by believing THE Gospel unto Salvation.
Romans 10:9-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Being filled AND sealed by the Holy Spirit AT THE TIME OF THIS BIRTH:
Ephesians 1:13-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


So seeing how it was the Lord that rescued you from your dead state, conceiving you, drawing you to Him in labor pains, through patience, giving you the faith by which you were born, and putting His Holy Spirit in you at that time, I ask again, what participation did you have in your Spiritual Birth?
First let me answer concerning our fleshly birth and life. Then I'll try to answer about the spiritual life in a later post. (perhaps not for several hours, or another day). OK, here goes:

I once asked God "What IS the purpose of this life?" because I was trying to find additional challenging questions to ask him. I expected it would be months or years before I started to receive the answers. But almost immediately he said "It is for man to CHOOSE." (as in, it is for a man to make his choices)

In other words, man could not make choices until/unless he was alive.

So God gave us life. And with it, the ability to choose.

We didn't bring this to pass. We didn't even have the opportunity to give our input on whether or not we wanted it to come to pass...because something has to be ALIVE to have a preference.

So he started the process by giving us LIFE.

This is the fleshy birth (or in terms of Adam, creation). We had no say in this obtaining of life. But we were given life.

Since then we have choice(s). What will we do with life? How will we use life? How will we treat others with life? Do we even like life? Do we want more? Etc, etc.

And in simple terms, we are provided avenues to both greater life and less life. (eternal life...and death) Deut. 30:19

Some choose greater life (seeking it out until they 'find' God and God shows them how more is obtained). Some choose less life (trying to hide from life, cursing life, and perhaps even killing themselves). Some choose to pretend there is no choice (choosing only to take advantage of the piece of life that was thrust upon them until it ends)

We are given this ability to choose until the end of the choosing time....until the end of our fleshly lives. Then the test is done, the choices are tallied, and the consequences of those choices are given. (think Judgement day)

As I mentioned earlier, this only covers the idea that our first birth was without our choice, and was done in order to GIVE us choice (regarding further life). But I need to think on something else for a while.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

wolfwint

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Feb 15, 2014
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NO this parable is about Christian discipleship in which "virgins" (the church) are filled with the Holy Spirit - the Holy Spirit indwells us;
there is no other way in the NT.
But as we all know not everyone who receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit and prays in tongues remains faithful.
In the parable of the sower and the seed 3 out of the 4 persons who receive the word of God do not make it.
Many depart and leave the faith and eventually deny the Holy Spirit and stop praying in tongues. Their lamps (bodies) lose their
oil and become empty; they become carnal.
But when the world is on fire rather than seeking to repent they will come to those who are faithful to seek prayers and protection
from the faithful.

Matthew 7:21-23 speaks to this as well; describing Spirit-filled Christians (with a clear reference to Mark 16:17-18) who do not endure;
who do not keep the faith; who do not remain unblemished and purified through the power and work of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:23
I would say the sign from a spirit filled christian is not the speaking in tongues, but the fruits of the Spirit and at first love.
And love I find rare in this thread, if you are not agree with the mainstream, ore questioning an 118 year old doctrine, which splittet believers in Christ.
 

Waggles

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The point that I am questioning in this parable is that Jesus states that He never knew them. He did that as well in Matthew 7:23 that you quote. If they were truly converted believers it would seem that Jesus' comment would not be that they were never known. It would be an inaccurate statement.
Any thoughts?
I understand this to be an expression of the personal relationship that the true worshipper have in Christ Jesus by the indwelling
Holy Spirit - the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of adoption that allows us to become sons and daughters of our Father in heaven.
Being Spirit filled and praying in tongues is a personal relationship with Jesus. It is far more than simply believing or confessing with
one's mouth.
Jesus in me and I in Jesus. And this is so very important because when I think wrong Jesus, through the indwelling Spirit grieves me.
When I am carnal my prayers are hindered. When I repent and submit to the Spirit my prayers are honoured.
Jesus is a real person closely involved in my life to whom I seek counsel and with whom I share my life with.
There are no secrets from him.

But some people divorce Jesus and reneg on their vows of faithfulness and over time Jesus is no longer a spouse intimately
involved in their life. He in effect becomes a stranger to them.

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white:
for they are worthy.
5 He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,
but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 3:

"I never knew you" is the antithesis of "well done thou good and faithful servant."

1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
1Corinthians 4:
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Well if you are my brother in Christ, I am not only commanded to be your friend, but also to love you. I have a perspective and understanding on Scriptures same as you do. I believe my perspective is the right one. If I didn't, I wouldn't believe it! And I will try and to get others to see things my way. I fully recognize though that I am almost CERTAINLY NOT right on every issue. NO ONE is.

But don't confuse that expression of my perspective with "grilling" you, and PERSECUTION? Really!?. Or, don't think that I haven't or continue, to pray on a whole host of matters.
My mention of persecution was a proactive not reactive request. You've said nothing to me so far that would qualify as persecution.

The mention of grilling was actually a type of request..a giving of permission to ask for details if I say something vague.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Matthew 24:13

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew preached the Gospel to the Jewish community in Judea. Matt 24:13 was addressed to the Jews. The whole chapter talks about the great tribulation. To the Jews, salvation is faith and works, especially during the great tribulation where they will do a lot of works, cleansing themselves with the blood of Jesus by becoming martyrs for Jesus.

Rev 22:14 - addressed to tribulation saints or the jews/work based salvation

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Such a rare sight in this forum. You rightly divide the word of truth, God approved you! :)

2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I understand this to be an expression of the personal relationship that the true worshipper have in Christ Jesus by the indwelling
Holy Spirit - the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of adoption that allows us to become sons and daughters of our Father in heaven.
Being Spirit filled and praying in tongues is a personal relationship with Jesus. It is far more than simply believing or confessing with
one's mouth.
The demons believe they confess it with their mouths.

How much more? Far more than then simply believing or confessing with one's mouth as in the sky the limit, just beleive?

How much more all the way back to the doctrine of tongues as to the foundation of God brining prophecy is a new manner called tongues .

Why does he mock those that mock him refusing to confirm what the sign really points to? Or is it far more than that also?

I will offer the foundation Isaiah 28:11-13and the new tesetment supplement defining the law of tongues. Isaiah 28 sets the tone of those who after all God has shown them they still refuse to hear what God says.
it can get confusing at time who he is speking to . I will add a lilte cplor hopefuly to make it easy just what the sign does confirm .


Isaiah 28:11-13 King James Version (KJV) For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken

1 Corinthians 14:20-22 King James Version (KJV) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a "sign", not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


.
 

Waggles

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Sep 21, 2017
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Well I'm heading off now to a building where the church shall come together to follow and obey the word of God …
after communion we shall enjoy the gifts of the Holy Spirit and partake of three gifts of speaking out in an unknown tongue,
with each gift being immediately followed by a gift of interpretation.
Then up to three prophets shall exercise the gift of prophecy.
God speaking directly to his church (the body of Christ) so as to reprove, edify and encourage us to stay on course and to finish
the race.
It is a high calling.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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NO this parable is about Christian discipleship in which "virgins" (the church) are filled with the Holy Spirit - the Holy Spirit indwells us;
there is no other way in the NT.
But as we all know not everyone who receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit and prays in tongues remains faithful.
In the parable of the sower and the seed 3 out of the 4 persons who receive the word of God do not make it.
Many depart and leave the faith and eventually deny the Holy Spirit and stop praying in tongues. Their lamps (bodies) lose their
oil and become empty; they become carnal.
But when the world is on fire rather than seeking to repent they will come to those who are faithful to seek prayers and protection
from the faithful.

Matthew 7:21-23 speaks to this as well; describing Spirit-filled Christians (with a clear reference to Mark 16:17-18) who do not endure;
who do not keep the faith; who do not remain unblemished and purified through the power and work of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:23
The fascinating feature in this parable of the 10 virgins is that it is one that only appears in the gospel of Matthew, this is despite the fact that Matthew mark Luke are known as sypnotic gospels.

If there is one key feature of Matthew gospel, it is written specifically to the Jews, more than any of the other 3. Thus it is very likely that, the body of Christ, which is the church comprising of Jews and Gentiles, is not mentioned at all in Matthew and is therefore not the subject in this parable.

Thus, I would propose that this parable is referring only to the Jews. At the rapture, they will find that half of them will be gone together with the gentile church, because they believe in Jesus, known as messianic Jews. The other half will remain on earth to face the great tribulation.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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First let me answer concerning our fleshly birth and life. Then I'll try to answer about the spiritual life in a later post. (perhaps not for several hours, or another day). OK, here goes:

I once asked God "What IS the purpose of this life?" because I was trying to find additional challenging questions to ask him. I expected it would be months or years before I started to receive the answers. But almost immediately he said "It is for man to CHOOSE." (as in, it is for a man to make his choices)

In other words, man could not make choices until/unless he was alive.

So God gave us life. And with it, the ability to choose.

We didn't bring this to pass. We didn't even have the opportunity to give our input on whether or not we wanted it to come to pass...because something has to be ALIVE to have a preference.

So he started the process by giving us LIFE.

This is the fleshy birth (or in terms of Adam, creation). We had no say in this obtaining of life. But we were given life.

Since then we have choice(s). What will we do with life? How will we use life? How will we treat others with life? Do we even like life? Do we want more? Etc, etc.

And in simple terms, we are provided avenues to both greater life and less life. (eternal life...and death) Deut. 30:19

Some choose greater life (seeking it out until they 'find' God and God shows them how more is obtained). Some choose less life (trying to hide from life, cursing life, and perhaps even killing themselves). Some choose to pretend there is no choice (choosing only to take advantage of the piece of life that was thrust upon them until it ends)

We are given this ability to choose until the end of the choosing time....until the end of our fleshly lives. Then the test is done, the choices are tallied, and the consequences of those choices are given. (think Judgement day)

As I mentioned earlier, this only covers the idea that our first birth was without our choice, and was done in order to GIVE us choice (regarding further life). But I need to think on something else for a while.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Well, right off the bat we have this divergence about how God answers prayer.

Tell me how God's answer, that the purpose of man's life is to choose, manifested to you?