speaking in tounges

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kenisyes

Guest
#41
#41
resurrection33 said:
telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." Acts 2:1-11 RSV
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Is that preaching the word of God? That's what you said the first time. This is not the same thing. These were all Jews, they all knew Ps. 135-136 by heart. Those psalms are recounting the works of the Lord. In the context of Pentecost, the word of God is that Jesus the man who was crucified, is indeed the Messiah. Anytime after His appearance on earth, Jesus IS the word of the Lord. That message is delivered in the common language later. To this day, when tongues are understood, they are speaking of the works of God, and not preaching the word.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#42
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#42
kenisyes said:
Is that preaching the word of God? That's what you said the first time. This is not the same thing. These were all Jews, they all knew Ps. 135-136 by heart. Those psalms are recounting the works of the Lord. In the context of Pentecost, the word of God is that Jesus the man who was crucified, is indeed the Messiah. Anytime after His appearance on earth, Jesus IS the word of the Lord. That message is delivered in the common language later. To this day, when tongues are understood, they are speaking of the works of God, and not preaching the word.
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As Paul said, if there is no one there to interpret, then don't say it.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#43
#43
resurrection33 said:
As Paul said, if there is no one there to interpret, then don't say it.
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So there are these 120 people in an upper room, and they start praying in tongues. They must have appointed someone to go downstairs first and make sure there were people from every nation on the street to interpret it? From the sound of the story, I think they just lucked out that one time. Of course, you will say God knew who would be there on the street, and that is true. But God also knows who will be at the meeting that day, so why does Paul make it sound like we have to check around first to make sure someone is there to interpret?
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#44
#44
If languages cease (pauo) immediately, as he says, then the fact that speaking in tongues in Corinth 30 years later is not possible, but Scripture documents it. Further, if "tongues" means preaching the gospel in other human languages, then his interpretation of the word "ceased" proves that only one language can speak of God now, and thus, only one country has any Christians in it. (Or maybe the Catholics are right, Latin is the only valid prayer language all protestants are heretics.)
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"As he says"??? thats the scripture brother
1C 13:8 . Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Paul is telling only love will remain till the end, bt rest everything will fail.The ability to speak in different languages will fail.
Tell me one church in which these people blaber and give the interpretation. They don't do it. But the bible says to do it.

1C 14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.

i see in the churches most of the people blaber. bt bible tells two or max three should speak in tongues and there should be somebody to interpret. what does the bible say if there is nobody to interpret

1C 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

What i have learned is that you wont get the truth just by reading the bible. We have to read "word by word", and we have to have a concordant to know what the exact hebrew/ greek word mean. There's a lot of translation error in today's bible. God knows that. Because he want us to find out the truth, which is a privilage of the choosen children, who have god's spirit.

i wonder what "edifying" today's church is doing through the unknown tongues???
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#45
#45
kenisyes said:
This is not likely. On the first Pentecost, all the tongues did was got people's attention and caused a debate whether or not they were drunk. Pretty soon, Peter addressed the entire crowd together, so it must have been in one language, probably Aramaic. The result of that address was 3000 saved. In fact, in the whole NT, there is no record of preaching in any language except Aramaic or Greek. If the purpose of tongues was to preach in many languages, why didn't God use them that way?
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Ac 2:7-12 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?


Pentecost is the time when people from all over the country comes to jerusalem to pray. it is after the passover. 3000 people were saved, people not from Israel only, but from other parts of the world, they can be Jews from other places and proselytes.
dont you think people in Arabia speaks Arabic, People from Cretes speaks Greek,Romans speaks italian and so on...
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#46
#46
kenisyes said:
So there are these 120 people in an upper room, and they start praying in tongues. They must have appointed someone to go downstairs first and make sure there were people from every nation on the street to interpret it? From the sound of the story, I think they just lucked out that one time. Of course, you will say God knew who would be there on the street, and that is true. But God also knows who will be at the meeting that day, so why does Paul make it sound like we have to check around first to make sure someone is there to interpret?
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Acts 1 happened very soon after the resurrection of our Lord, God gave Peter and other apostles the ability to speak in tounges because, they wanted to preach the gospel, they wanted to tell the people that Jesus resurrected. But Pauls 1 Cor is different. He says this after church was formed. That thing should be done in the church.

The Law commanded the whole Jewish nation to celebrate three seasons with great solemnity: Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Almost invariably, the same people who journeyed to Jerusalem at Passover would be back there for the next festival. Therefore, Christ had directed his apostles to wait in Jerusalem until the Feast of Pentecost. One reason was to have the same Passover crowd who earlier had been present at the crucifixion back in Jerusalem fifty days later.

This time, those multitudes were to witness something different. They were no longer to witness a cowardly flight of Christ’s disciples. This time the people in Jerusalem would observe a display of such power and conviction by those once-afraid disciples, that nothing could humanly account for it.

These disciples, who had been terrified of that same crowd just fifty days earlier, now stood in the midst of them, each man witnessing with assurance and dynamic conviction to Christ’s resurrection. None was fearful for his own personal life.
taken from Associates for Scriptural Knowledge by ernest.l. martin
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#47
May 29, 2013
9,083
1,749
113
#47
Sanashankar said:
"As he says"??? thats the scripture brother
1C 13:8 . Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Paul is telling only love will remain till the end, bt rest everything will fail.The ability to speak in different languages will fail.
Tell me one church in which these people blaber and give the interpretation. They don't do it. But the bible says to do it.
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First of all, the genuine manifestation is a gift of the Spirit, and you shouldn't use a term like 'blabber' to describe it.

And there are numerous churches where tongues are interpreted, and some churches do insist that tongues spoken out in the congregation be interpreted. I think this is an issue where you may be making assumptions and don't really know much about what you are talking about.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#48
#48
Sanashankar said:
dont you think people in Arabia speaks Arabic, People from Cretes speaks Greek,Romans speaks italian and so on...
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Well, most of these languages did not exist then, but because of the nature of the economy, eveyone spoke their language and Greek or Latin for business. Most were Jews, and so they probably could get by in Aramaic also.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#49
#49
Sanashankar said:
i wonder what "edifying" today's church is doing through the unknown tongues???
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Historically, the tongues built up the believer, and the believer built up the church. Churches today do hundreds of times more edifying than they did 70 years ago. Just download old movies and you will see the difference immediately. Those churches were powerless to do anything but make promises of heaven after you died, in the face of adversity.
 
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nathan3

Guest
#50
#50
1 Corinthians 14:33

King James Version (KJV)

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

There are things that have to be understood.

The babble of today , claims, that it is from the Holy Spirit. There is a problem there. Because in Act's 2. The gift was, that everyone understood....That is very very different then what people are doing today.

We can read In the Revelation of Christ, who is the living Word mind you, Says, he His tongue is sharper then a two edge sword. That will be sharp and clear to the point; just as Christ spoke.

The gift to unbelievers, is when they see what happened in Acts 2. that Means, they understand. Not babble. No where, in the scriptures, will we find, that the Gift of the Holy Spirit is nothing but, sharp and clear and Truth. You will NOT, find the word, unknown tongue anywhere near Acts 2:.

Christ, never,ever, did what people are doing today. And he is our standard. Our first Love. And He teaches us the Truth of the Holy Spirit.

Now onto a different subject, is Paul's teaching about being able to communicate in a Language , that has to be understood by the hearer . Take a Strong's. And look into the Greek meanings, of tongues and unknown or otherwise. Look up the words, and see, what it actually is saying. Because the English does not do it justice. Because we got Satan, having Christians running around yelling like turkeys .

And that scripture people use. about The spirit makings intersessions for us, with groaning that """"can NOT, be uttered"""" .That is not something you do, when you have the Spirit making intersession for us.

When are we going to look closely at what we read ?
 
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K

kenisyes

Guest
#51
#51
nathan3 said:
Christ, never,ever, did what people are doing today.
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The Holy Spirit could not be sent until after He had completed His earthly ministry.
 
W

woka

Guest
#52
#52
A simple minded girl I am, the thing that concerns me the most with the whole debate is that it supposedly is evidence of having received the Holy Spirity, when in fact the Lord God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one, so when you receive Jesus as your personal saviour the other's are there to. This having been said, people who do supposedly speak in tongues have an air about them of superiority as they speak it and they neighbour does not, leaving the meighbour in church to fell less than.<BR><BR>I spoke in tongues for many year's and am so grateful to the Lord that He freed me from the deceit.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#53
#53
In the early days of the restoration of tongues (1907-1970), it was noticed that a lot of people who received the Holy Spirit did not seem very empowered. Theologically, this was because many churches did not teach on what He did. "Baptism in the spirit" was introduced so that people could pray again to have the Holy SPirit act in their life, to rememdy this lack of empowerment. The pastors knew that you did not "get" the Holy SPirit later, because you already "had" Him anyway, but the prayer served its purpose, and it was not always taught correctly, so a lot of people misunderstood. Some denominations got carried away with noticing that tongues would come to people after saying the prayer. This was just because people realized they exist, not because God had just given them. These denominations talked about tongues way too much, and the whole thing confused a lot of people.

Maybe the people you know have an air about them. The ones I know do not.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#54
#54
kenisyes said:
In the early days of the restoration of tongues (1907-1970), it was noticed that a lot of people who received the Holy Spirit did not seem very empowered. Theologically, this was because many churches did not teach on what He did. "Baptism in the spirit" was introduced so that people could pray again to have the Holy SPirit act in their life, to rememdy this lack of empowerment. The pastors knew that you did not "get" the Holy SPirit later, because you already "had" Him anyway, but the prayer served its purpose, and it was not always taught correctly, so a lot of people misunderstood. Some denominations got carried away with noticing that tongues would come to people after saying the prayer. This was just because people realized they exist, not because God had just given them. These denominations talked about tongues way too much, and the whole thing confused a lot of people.

Maybe the people you know have an air about them. The ones I know do not.
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Regardless of any air. It is not written . This is what Christians, should be seeing.
 
S

Sanashankar

Guest
#55
#55
presidente said:
First of all, the genuine manifestation is a gift of the Spirit, and you shouldn't use a term like 'blabber' to describe it.

And there are numerous churches where tongues are interpreted, and some churches do insist that tongues spoken out in the congregation be interpreted. I think this is an issue where you may be making assumptions and don't really know much about what you are talking about.
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Something which is unscriptural is always of no importance to me. i strongly believe that there is nothing like "unknown tongues".

1.There is no such word as "unknown" tongues in the real scripture. Only KJV and some other versions hveit.

2.I believe "unknown tongues" does not bring any kind of knowledge abt God.And the scripture says, not all will have the gift of speaking in tongues

3.The teaching that they heard was the most important factor of spiritual worth on that Pentecost day, not that “tongues” were a sign that the Holy Spirit was now available.

1C 12:28-30 And God hath set some (not all) in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?
have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

"me pantes glossais lalousin" in Greek, which translates correctly as "no all languages are speaking" like "no all commissioner", "no all teachers"...

How do we know what the pastors in the churches today are interpreting the correct thing???How can u say it is genuine. The same pastors heal the sick, the prophesies..which is all unscriptural...and i have not seen in any churches, a pastor using unknown tongue and somebody else interpreting that!!!!

1C 14:22 so that the tongues are for a sign, not to the believing, but to the unbelieving; and the prophesy is not for the unbelieving, but for the believing,

I'm an Indian, if i was there at the time of peter or paul, as an unbeliever, i would have seen Paul, who is a Jew speaking to me in "malayalam" which is my mother tongue and wud have accepted the truth. Thats the meaning of this verse.

i agree to what nathan said
And that scripture people use. about The spirit makings intersessions for us, with groaning that """"can NOT, be uttered"""" .That is not something you do, when you have the Spirit making intersession for us.
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Ro 8:26 . Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

we shud never forget that, About six years later when Paul wrote to the Ephesians, he was then talking about people being full adults in Christ (Ephesians 4:14–16). No longer did Paul mention a single teaching about “tongues” or the physical manifestations of spiritual gifts. It was infants in Christ who got carried away with such things, but full adults saw it was the spiritual things that counted.

May the peace of God be with u
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#56
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
#56
tillbrook said:
hello all I was wondering if anyone can give evidence from scripture and historicly that the toungues in the bible are the toungues used today
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The modern tongues movement of today is false.

Tongues were given as a sign for the Jews.


1 Corinthians 14:22-24 [King James Version (KJV)]


22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:


Also remember that God right now is dealing with the Gentile nations.

Now that does not mean that a Jew can't be saved. There are individual Jews getting saved today.

But in this Dispensation of Grace, that we now live in, God is mainly dealing with the Gentile nations. Anybody can get saved today. But they must come to Christ as a sinner in a state of repentance, and they must believe on Him for salvation.

After the Rapture of the Church, the time of Jacob's trouble will begin.

And God will again be dealing with the Nation of Israel. And therefore, sings and wonders will be brought back in. You'll have the two witnesses (Moses and Elijah) performing signs to confirm the word. That is in the time of Jacob's trouble (see Revelation 11)

The Gentiles do not seek after a sign but we seek after wisdom:

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. - 1 Corinthians 1:21-24 (KJV)


The gift of speaking in tongues was a sign ( see Mark 16:16-20).

In the book of Acts, there were only three cases where people spoke in tongues (Acts 2:1-11; 10:44-46; 19:6-8).

Furthermore, in Ephesians 4:7-12, when Paul is speaking of spiritual gifts for the perfecting of the saints, the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the Body of Christ, he does not mention tongues. In fact, after 1 Corinthians 14:39, Paul never again mentions about speaking in tongues.
 
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