Staying Saved (1Peter 4:18)

OneFaith · Apr 8, 2017

(First, please note that when I highlight or capitalize words it is to bring emphasis- not to "text yell". I am a very humble and soft-spoken person, and I respect everyone here)...

Staying Saved (1Peter 4:18)

The Bible says that if we do not forgive, that we will not be forgiven. That is a condition. This condition is not written to worldly people- but to the saved. Many times the New Testament says these things are written to the Holy and faithful brothers in Christ. The Bible is written to the righteous- not to the worldly.

If you were saved, yet refuse to forgive people, you are unsaved as long as you refuse to repent of not forgiving people. Therefore it is possible to be saved, yet lose that salvation. Some say no because Jesus covers every sin.

Jesus covers every sin for those IN Christ- it is possible to get into Christ and to come back out of Christ. Those who were saved, yet used that as a license to sin (such as the sin of not forgiving people) are no longer in Christ.

The Bible says that for those who sin willfully, there no longer remains Christ's sacrifice for their sins! (Hebrews 10:26) "No longer" means that it once did- therefore OSAS is a false doctrine/things taught by demons.

EXAMPLE:
Say you're in a car, not wearing a seatbelt, and you crash, go through the windshield, and die. Why did you die? Because the seatbelt didn't save you, because you didn't put it on. Those who do not put on Christ in baptism will die an eternal death.

But let's say you have put on Christ in baptism. OK, so you are driving down the road, and you crash. You did not die because you were wearing your seatbelt, and it saved you from going through the windshield. So you recheck your seatbelt and drive home.

On your drive home you go over a cliff, and your car blows up with you in it. Weather or not your seatbelt came lose is irrelevant- you still died because you weren't looking where you were going.

Getting saved by Christ is not enough- we MUST make sure we are staying on the straight and narrow road that leads to eternal life. "Thy Word is a lamp onto my feet and a light onto my path." If you don't follow the Bible, you are not on the path, and will not get to that path's Destination.

You can choose to deceive yourself if you like, but it won't make the outcome any different.

What does "MUST" mean? It means that there is a condition that has no exception. Jesus said we must carry our cross daily and follow Him- that is a condition that requires action on our part, on an ongoing basis. If someone gets saved but refuses the many conditional statements in the New Testament, they are no longer in a safe spiritual state. The blood of Christ will not cover their sins.

Christ saved us, but staying saved requires effort on our part. "Each one of you should work out their salvation with fear and trembling." That is not written to the worldly- that is written as a warning to Christians, for...

"Many are called but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14).

And...

"If it is HARD (effort) for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" (1Peter 4:18).

Being righteous or Christian is not enough- you must be a righteous Christian who actively obeys the Bible on an ongoing basis.

"...ONLY those who DO the Will of My Father..." (Matthew 7:21).

Spokenpassage · Apr 8, 2017

"Christ saved us, but staying saved requires effort on our part."

Whoa! Does God save half way? We continue in the faith, because Christ is persevering us. The apostasy verses are a warning to the believer that he should prove their election sure. "Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall" (2 Peter 1:10). You posted verses that hold to the perseverance of the regenerated, instead of going against it.

notuptome · Apr 8, 2017

We are not saved according to our own volition so we cannot lose our salvation by our own volition.

This is another thread to create a judgmental spirit that we have no authority to judge another by.

Only God can separate the tares from the wheat. Condemning others is never a good thing to engage in.

Live according to the dictates of your own heart and allow others to do the same.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Grace777x70 · Apr 8, 2017

Here's Peter preaching the true gospel of Christ. Shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??

Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then? The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.

We have the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace - not if we forgive first.

We forgive now from our hearts because we have new hearts filled with the love of God. It's in our new nature now in the new creation. Having our minds renewed to this truth will transform us to walk out what is already in us in Christ.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus because He said things pertaining to His time but we can always learn good truths from all the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by mad-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.

notmyown · Apr 8, 2017

Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:33-39)

[HR][/HR]

John146 · Apr 8, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Here's Peter preaching the true gospel of Christ. Shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??

Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then? The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.

We have the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace - not if we forgive first.

We forgive now from our hearts because we have new hearts filled with the love of God. It's in our new nature now in the new creation. Having our minds renewed to this truth will transform us to walk out what is already in us in Christ.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus because He said things pertaining to His time but we can always learn good truths from all the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by mad-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.

Brother, do you see the mess people get in when one does not rightly divide the word of truth. I don't understand why it is so hard to see. When people try and mesh all doctrines before the Church Age with all doctrines to the Church Age and with all doctrines to those left after the Church Age...ughhh...what a mess. We know most of the differences on these threads come from failure to rightly divide.

Embankment · Apr 8, 2017

OneFaith said:

(First, please note that when I highlight or capitalize words it is to bring emphasis- not to "text yell". I am a very humble and soft-spoken person, and I respect everyone here)...

Staying Saved (1Peter 4:18)

The Bible says that if we do not forgive, that we will not be forgiven. That is a condition. This condition is not written to worldly people- but to the saved. Many times the New Testament says these things are written to the Holy and faithful brothers in Christ. The Bible is written to the righteous- not to the worldly.

If you were saved, yet refuse to forgive people, you are unsaved as long as you refuse to repent of not forgiving people. Therefore it is possible to be saved, yet lose that salvation. Some say no because Jesus covers every sin.

Jesus covers every sin for those IN Christ- it is possible to get into Christ and to come back out of Christ. Those who were saved, yet used that as a license to sin (such as the sin of not forgiving people) are no longer in Christ.

The Bible says that for those who sin willfully, there no longer remains Christ's sacrifice for their sins! (Hebrews 10:26) "No longer" means that it once did- therefore OSAS is a false doctrine/things taught by demons.

EXAMPLE:
Say you're in a car, not wearing a seatbelt, and you crash, go through the windshield, and die. Why did you die? Because the seatbelt didn't save you, because you didn't put it on. Those who do not put on Christ in baptism will die an eternal death.

But let's say you have put on Christ in baptism. OK, so you are driving down the road, and you crash. You did not die because you were wearing your seatbelt, and it saved you from going through the windshield. So you recheck your seatbelt and drive home.

On your drive home you go over a cliff, and your car blows up with you in it. Weather or not your seatbelt came lose is irrelevant- you still died because you weren't looking where you were going.

Getting saved by Christ is not enough- we MUST make sure we are staying on the straight and narrow road that leads to eternal life. "Thy Word is a lamp onto my feet and a light onto my path." If you don't follow the Bible, you are not on the path, and will not get to that path's Destination.

You can choose to deceive yourself if you like, but it won't make the outcome any different.

What does "MUST" mean? It means that there is a condition that has no exception. Jesus said we must carry our cross daily and follow Him- that is a condition that requires action on our part, on an ongoing basis. If someone gets saved but refuses the many conditional statements in the New Testament, they are no longer in a safe spiritual state. The blood of Christ will not cover their sins.

Christ saved us, but staying saved requires effort on our part. "Each one of you should work out their salvation with fear and trembling." That is not written to the worldly- that is written as a warning to Christians, for...

"Many are called but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14).

And...

"If it is HARD (effort) for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" (1Peter 4:18).

Being righteous or Christian is not enough- you must be a righteous Christian who actively obeys the Bible on an ongoing basis.

"...ONLY those who DO the Will of My Father..." (Matthew 7:21).

The message Jesus gives us in the Gospels is very different than what you will hear in the books of Acts and afterward. Jesus taught the old covenant because he lived in the old covenant. It was not until his death that the old covenant was satisfied and the new covenant began.

Grace777x70 · Apr 8, 2017

Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews.

Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus' finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.

Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.

Hebrews 10:26 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins. This is the "willful sinning" that there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

You cannot reject Christ's sacrifice for sins because only His blood cleanses us from all sin but we need to receive this grace through faith in Christ alone.
Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.

The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the willful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.

This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9

There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.

Blain · Apr 8, 2017

I agree that it is possible to lose or rather give up our salvation but not because we for instance do not forgive at least not in essence. For instance we all have strengths and weaknesses i am very strong in love and forgiveness but where i am strong in those i am severely weak in self control.

The main fruits of a true believer is love and love brings peace joy and forgiveness patience and wisdom faith and understanding however not all are so easily strong in love. There are many here I know that are lacking in love and forgiveness and some have a very hard time forgiving but this is not something that will decide their salvation because one thing i know about God is that he turns our greatest weaknesses into our greatest strengths. Our salvation is not determined by the measure of things like forgiveness because we are all weak in certain areas that God is slowly yet surely grooming

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 8, 2017

OneFaith said:

(First, please note that when I highlight or capitalize words it is to bring emphasis- not to "text yell". I am a very humble and soft-spoken person, and I respect everyone here)...

Staying Saved (1Peter 4:18)

The Bible says that if we do not forgive, that we will not be forgiven. That is a condition. This condition is not written to worldly people- but to the saved. Many times the New Testament says these things are written to the Holy and faithful brothers in Christ. The Bible is written to the righteous- not to the worldly.

If you were saved, yet refuse to forgive people, you are unsaved as long as you refuse to repent of not forgiving people. Therefore it is possible to be saved, yet lose that salvation. Some say no because Jesus covers every sin.

Jesus covers every sin for those IN Christ- it is possible to get into Christ and to come back out of Christ. Those who were saved, yet used that as a license to sin (such as the sin of not forgiving people) are no longer in Christ.

The Bible says that for those who sin willfully, there no longer remains Christ's sacrifice for their sins! (Hebrews 10:26) "No longer" means that it once did- therefore OSAS is a false doctrine/things taught by demons.

EXAMPLE:
Say you're in a car, not wearing a seatbelt, and you crash, go through the windshield, and die. Why did you die? Because the seatbelt didn't save you, because you didn't put it on. Those who do not put on Christ in baptism will die an eternal death.

But let's say you have put on Christ in baptism. OK, so you are driving down the road, and you crash. You did not die because you were wearing your seatbelt, and it saved you from going through the windshield. So you recheck your seatbelt and drive home.

On your drive home you go over a cliff, and your car blows up with you in it. Weather or not your seatbelt came lose is irrelevant- you still died because you weren't looking where you were going.

Getting saved by Christ is not enough- we MUST make sure we are staying on the straight and narrow road that leads to eternal life. "Thy Word is a lamp onto my feet and a light onto my path." If you don't follow the Bible, you are not on the path, and will not get to that path's Destination.

You can choose to deceive yourself if you like, but it won't make the outcome any different.

What does "MUST" mean? It means that there is a condition that has no exception. Jesus said we must carry our cross daily and follow Him- that is a condition that requires action on our part, on an ongoing basis. If someone gets saved but refuses the many conditional statements in the New Testament, they are no longer in a safe spiritual state. The blood of Christ will not cover their sins.

Christ saved us, but staying saved requires effort on our part. "Each one of you should work out their salvation with fear and trembling." That is not written to the worldly- that is written as a warning to Christians, for...

"Many are called but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14).

And...

"If it is HARD (effort) for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?" (1Peter 4:18).

Being righteous or Christian is not enough- you must be a righteous Christian who actively obeys the Bible on an ongoing basis.

"...ONLY those who DO the Will of My Father..." (Matthew 7:21).

God will forgive the one who humbles their heart and turns back to God everytime. Losing salvation for the believer is very hard to do since that person has The Holy Spirit fighting to keep you on the narrow path. Obviously some do wonder off to never return but they did it of their own free will and not by lack of Gods part who grieved every time that person chooses self over God. We live in a beautiful love relationship with our creator and the only part on our part is to willingly out of free will to surrender to God and take up our cross to deny ourselves daily. This surrender produces obedience.

dcontroversal · Apr 8, 2017

Spokenpassage said:

They definitely serve a weak god.....mine saves eternally and his grace outruns and out bounds my sin....and the will of the Father is to BELIEVE on JESUS...the one whom he sent.........

Spokenpassage · Apr 8, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Have they never read: "...those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." (Rom. 8:30)

You can't fall out of this salvific chain. If you are predestined you will be called to faith, and if you were called to faith you will be justified, and if you will be justified you will be glorified. There isn't really any exceptions.

notmyown · Apr 8, 2017

Spokenpassage said:

and no human fingerprints on that Golden Chain.

i suppose the trouble comes in when one doesn't know who "God's elect" are, and what that means.

Spokenpassage · Apr 8, 2017

notmyown said:

With the former, you are right because someone who claims to believe may be a liar at best, but that faithful day will discover who was among the elect.

Blain · Apr 8, 2017

I am confused about something though, I have known lots of people who have wanted to be saved and called out to God they prayed and went to church but they never made that connection with him they never felt saved and burned out several became atheists including my friend Andrew.

But I don't understand this because it was the same way for me I wanted to be saved and i called out to God and he poured his love and his fire into me, i did the same thing as them yet the outcome was vastly different?

Magenta · Apr 8, 2017

notmyown said:

'Many are called but few are chosen.' Matthew 22:14

This statement is the conclusion to the Parable of the Wedding Feast. Jesus spoke this parable to show what the kingdom of heaven will be like when the end of the age comes. In the parable, the king sends his servants out to gather the wedding guests to the wedding feast. But those invited refused to come, some because they were too busy with their own worldly pursuits and some because they were positively hostile toward the king. So the king commands his servants to go out and invite anyone they find, and many come and fill the wedding hall. But the king sees one man without wedding clothes, and he sends him away. Jesus concludes by saying that many are called/invited to the kingdom, but only those who have been “chosen” and have received Christ will come. Those who try to come without the covering of the blood of Christ for their sins are inadequately clothed and will be sent into “outer darkness,” (v. 13) i.e., hell/the lake of fire.

Many people hear the call of God which comes through His revelation of Himself through two things—the creation and the conscience within us. But only the "few" will respond because they are the ones who are truly hearing. Jesus said many times, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” (Matthew 11:15; Mark 4:9; Luke 8:8, 14:35). The point is that everyone has ears, but only a few are listening and responding. Not everyone who hears the gospel receives it but only the "few" who have ears to hear. The "many" hear, but there is no interest or there is outright antagonism toward God. Many are called or invited into the kingdom, but none are able to come on their own. God must draw the hearts of those who come; otherwise they will not (John 6:44).

Second Corinthians 5:17 says, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come.” God creates life, grants repentance and gives faith. Man is totally unable by himself to do these things which are necessary to enter the kingdom of heaven. Ephesians 1:4-6: “For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.”

Salvation is by God’s will and pleasure for His glory. John 6:37-39, 44-45: “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day…No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.”

So, all of God’s “chosen” will be saved without exception; they will hear and respond because they have spiritual ears to hear the truth. God’s power makes this certain. Romans 8:28-30: “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew (loved) he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.”

How do we know if we are among the few that have ears to hear? By responding to the call. Assurance of this certain call, this chosen call, is from the Holy Spirit. Consider Philippians 1:6, which says, “Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” “Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose” (Philippians 2:12-13.) If we listen with our spiritual ears and respond to the invitation, there will be fear and trembling in our souls as we recognize that it was God’s work in us that caused our salvation. https://www.gotquestions.org/many-called-few-chosen.html

notmyown · Apr 8, 2017

yes, M!

the Gospel call goes out to 'many'... the outward call.

but only the 'few' who are numbered among God's elect receive the inward call.

and respond they will.

Spokenpassage · Apr 8, 2017

Blain said:

Let me ask, did you or your friend want to be saved upon hearing the full disclosure of the law and gospel? Or was it a mere conviction of your sin and the fearful glance at an eternity in hell? If the former, you or your friend would have received the call to repentance and faith in the gospel. If the latter, you needed to hear the gospel, because having a fear of judgment is common to everyone, even those that lived their whole life in sin. Unregenerate people will be afraid of judgement.

We are not talking about feelings, because feelings are conditional and can be manipulated by some people in the pulpit.

Spokenpassage · Apr 8, 2017

Hey, Magenta, I noticed that you posted 'Got Questions.' I have read in the past the articles about Calvinism, have you checked them out?

Sully · Apr 8, 2017

Maybe there should be a forum called "Christians against Christ" so all you workers can hang out in misery together..

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