Sucide

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SpoonJuly

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2018
1,328
943
113
#2
Two things---
First it is a rejection of God's authority.
Second it is the ultimate act of selfishness---One cares nothing for all those who are hurt and left wondering why.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#3
If successful, it is rather final...........is it not?
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
503
260
63
#4
I think the church missed it big time calling it an unforgivable sin.... that is not Scripture.... The only sin the Scripture says is unforgivable is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Which is rejection Yeshua as Messiah I think the Church did this because they did not know how to handle suicide.

I think it is very sad that even a Christian can be depressed enough to believe heaven so fair better that they take their own life. That can be tricky... Heaven is fair better, but G-d is life and life more abundantly… However, there are times when depression (for what ever reason) demonic or just chemical (in the brain) overtake a person.

To be honest with you this is what you believe about Salvation comes into play; it's the same for my first husband who was murdered.... Do you ask forgiveness for EVERY WRONG WROD, EVERY WRONG THOUGHT, EVERY WRONG ACTION? We sin in word, thought and deed? Are "you" even sure what falls short of Perfection? How can someone even be sure they will go to heaven especially if their "salvation" is multiplied by years?

G-d's GRACE IS ABOUNDING TO US ALL THE TIME AND RENEWED EVRY MORNING.... EVEN IF IT IS THE LAST MORING OF OUR LIFE ON EATH... EVEN BY OUR OWN HAND!!!!!
 

Karraster

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,128
480
83
#5
My first reaction to this, it's a tragedy and it shatters families, sends shockwaves into the future of which the consequences cannot be measured. That's my reaction on a personal level.

But then, this is the BDF, so you may be referring strictly to the Biblical accounts. Of the ones I am familiar, on the surface it seems like the intended purpose was to avoid consequences, or control their destiny. I suppose whether in antiquity or present, hopelessness most likely is a major factor, coupled with the need for immediate relief.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
113
#6
What do you think of suicide?
It’s not a solution to anyone’s problems, in my opinion. However, as someone else posted, it’s not the unpardonable sin, my friend. It leaves many behind to pick up the broken pieces.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#7
Not coming down on either side........but, from talking with some who do believe it can not be forgiven......their reasoning is:

If a person is successful in killing themselves, AND IT IS A SIN, how exactly can they repent and ask for forgiveness?

Now, just thinking about it, they do have a point...........

I would ask what is the difference between a person killing themselves or someone else? The taking of a life is pretty much covered in the 10 Commandments is it not? Oh, that's right, I forgot, some here don't believe the 10 Commandments are in force anymore.....sorry, ignore that part
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
113
#8
Not coming down on either side........but, from talking with some who do believe it can not be forgiven......their reasoning is:

If a person is successful in killing themselves, AND IT IS A SIN, how exactly can they repent and ask for forgiveness?

Now, just thinking about it, they do have a point...........

I would ask what is the difference between a person killing themselves or someone else? The taking of a life is pretty much covered in the 10 Commandments is it not? Oh, that's right, I forgot, some here don't believe the 10 Commandments are in force anymore.....sorry, ignore that part
If a person dies from obesity, how is it that much different? Sure, the intent was different, my friend, but by not stopping their gluttony, which is a sin too, they killed themselves.
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
503
260
63
#9
Not coming down on either side........but, from talking with some who do believe it can not be forgiven......their reasoning is:

If a person is successful in killing themselves, AND IT IS A SIN, how exactly can they repent and ask for forgiveness?

Now, just thinking about it, they do have a point...........

I would ask what is the difference between a person killing themselves or someone else? The taking of a life is pretty much covered in the 10 Commandments is it not? Oh, that's right, I forgot, some here don't believe the 10 Commandments are in force anymore.....sorry, ignore that part

I find this a great post... And very interesting…. The 10 Commandments say thou shall not murder…. Is suicide murder?

I am a Torah thumper... FYI....
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#11
There is a huge difference,,,,,,,,,given that gluttony is a sin, but not ALL obesity is caused by gluttony. And, even if that is the case, there MUST be an underlying intention to end ones life. Folks pigging out sinfully are not necessarily attempting to kill themselves.

Your comparison is lacking in credibility, no offense, it just is. By your ideology, a person who speeds while driving a car is trying to kill themselves, for speeding is surely one way to die, and many do.....

Suicide (if successful) is usually considered, contemplated, maybe even discussed (as in suicide pacts), planned and carried out. That is far different from pigging out on Double Whoppers with Cheese and x-tra Fries
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,067
7,474
113
64
Florida
#12
Not coming down on either side........but, from talking with some who do believe it can not be forgiven......their reasoning is:

If a person is successful in killing themselves, AND IT IS A SIN, how exactly can they repent and ask for forgiveness?

Now, just thinking about it, they do have a point...........

I would ask what is the difference between a person killing themselves or someone else? The taking of a life is pretty much covered in the 10 Commandments is it not? Oh, that's right, I forgot, some here don't believe the 10 Commandments are in force anymore.....sorry, ignore that part
Yeah, apparently a lot of peeps believe that the 10 Commandments are obsolete. Maybe they believe that there is no longer sin in the world.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#13
I find this a great post... And very interesting…. The 10 Commandments say thou shall not murder…. Is suicide murder?

I am a Torah thumper... FYI....
.....and, therein lies the debate......

The willful taking of a life.......is it a sin? Even if it is ones own life? Some say Yes, some say No.......

There are reasonable arguments on both sides
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,067
7,474
113
64
Florida
#14
There is a huge difference,,,,,,,,,given that gluttony is a sin, but not ALL obesity is caused by gluttony. And, even if that is the case, there MUST be an underlying intention to end ones life. Folks pigging out sinfully are not necessarily attempting to kill themselves.

Your comparison is lacking in credibility, no offense, it just is. By your ideology, a person who speeds while driving a car is trying to kill themselves, for speeding is surely one way to die, and many do.....

Suicide (if successful) is usually considered, contemplated, maybe even discussed (as in suicide pacts), planned and carried out. That is far different from pigging out on Double Whoppers with Cheese and x-tra Fries
Wendy's has a sale on fries this week, any size for $1. Of course, I am trending towards a supersize. Maybe I'll score a frosty too. Those go on sale all of the time. For the record I am down with Whoppers from Burger King too. Their fries are lame though.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#15
There is an Article worth reading about this

What Does the Bible Say About Suicide?
www.thoughtco.com/suicide-and-the-bible-701953
It would be difficult to argue that suicide is not a sin, for it is the taking of a human life, or to put it bluntly, murder. The Bible clearly expresses the sanctity of human life ( Exodus 20:13 ). God is the author of life, thus, the giving and taking of life ought to remain in his hands ( Job 1:21 ).

excerpt:

Does God Forgive Suicide?
There's no doubt that suicide is a terrible tragedy. For a Christian, it is an even greater tragedy because it is a waste of a life that God intended to use in a glorious way.

It would be difficult to argue that suicide is not a sin, for it is the taking of a human life, or to put it bluntly, murder. The Bible clearly expresses the sanctity of human life (Exodus 20:13). God is the author of life, thus, the giving and taking of life ought to remain in his hands (Job 1:21).
 

memyselfi

Junior Member
Jan 12, 2017
503
260
63
#16
.....and, therein lies the debate......

The willful taking of a life.......is it a sin? Even if it is ones own life? Some say Yes, some say No.......

There are reasonable arguments on both sides
Do some say it is murder? Or do they just say is wrong/sin? There is a difference....

Do you have an opinion/belief?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#17
I should add that the Author is definitely standing in the OSAS Camp....... :)

just saying
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
113
#18
There is a huge difference,,,,,,,,,given that gluttony is a sin, but not ALL obesity is caused by gluttony. And, even if that is the case, there MUST be an underlying intention to end ones life. Folks pigging out sinfully are not necessarily attempting to kill themselves.

Your comparison is lacking in credibility, no offense, it just is. By your ideology, a person who speeds while driving a car is trying to kill themselves, for speeding is surely one way to die, and many do.....

Suicide (if successful) is usually considered, contemplated, maybe even discussed (as in suicide pacts), planned and carried out. That is far different from pigging out on Double Whoppers with Cheese and x-tra Fries
But gluttony is a sin. Pigging out is a sin. I agree with your post, but if someone dies from not stopping their pigging out, they, in essence, killed the,selves.

I know some ppl who have thyroid problems, too.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,203
2,711
113
#19
There are a few things in life that I have given much consideration to, and came to the conclusion that the Yea or Nay of them is best left up to God.

This is one of those things,
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2018
1,546
784
113
#20
There is a huge difference,,,,,,,,,given that gluttony is a sin, but not ALL obesity is caused by gluttony. And, even if that is the case, there MUST be an underlying intention to end ones life. Folks pigging out sinfully are not necessarily attempting to kill themselves.

Your comparison is lacking in credibility, no offense, it just is. By your ideology, a person who speeds while driving a car is trying to kill themselves, for speeding is surely one way to die, and many do.....

Suicide (if successful) is usually considered, contemplated, maybe even discussed (as in suicide pacts), planned and carried out. That is far different from pigging out on Double Whoppers with Cheese and x-tra Fries
What about those who are terminally ill and decide to stop taking their meds intentionally? If they took them, they could live longer, but chose not to take them. They, in essence, took their own lives.