Suicide

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MOC

Member
Mar 20, 2020
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#1
Some believe that suicide is the same as murder, since one is murdering their own self. When someone takes their own life, they are rejecting our Lord's gift of life. The Roman Catholic Church believes if a Christian takes his or her life, it is unpardoned, therefore they are not saved. Other Church denominations have followed suit with this belief. What does the Bible say about suicide? There is not many that the Bible lists that took their own life. Most of them were the result of a prolonged life of depression and disobedience to God's word. Though there are times when believers may have to give their lives for Jesus, but voluntary martyrdom is not usually considered suicide. Here are a few people in the Bible that took their own lives, whether they were saved or not, that is God's judgement.

Abimelech He was a son of Gideon and became king of Shechem. He commanded by force, murdered all who opposed him, and was a leader in such a way that questions his allegiance to God.

Saul There is much debate on whether Saul was saved. Scripture tells us of Saul that, "the spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man." Sounds like a born again Christian. Also scripture tells us that, "God gave him another heart," or changed him. Saul was also God's choice to lead Israel.

Ahithophel He was one of king David's most trusted advisors, but also betrayed the king. Scholars debate if he was a man of God.

Zimri He burned a palace down with him inside it. Scripture says he, "sinned in doing evil in the sight of the Lord.....which he did to make Israel sin." Most agree, he was not a man of God.

Judas Ischariot He was one of the original 12 disciples of Jesus, and of course betrayed Jesus. Here is what Jesus said of him, "woe unto that man by whom the son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born." Pretty harsh words coming from our Savior. Judas was with Jesus for 3 years and was given ample opportunity for salvation and repentance. Some claim that by Judas giving the money back to the pharisees was an act of repentance. ***Interesting to note that Judas was given power and authority over demons, to proclaim the word of God, and to heal and perform miracles by Jesus. But did he have saving faith?

Samson "O Lord God remember me I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes." Its obvious that Samson believed in our Heavenly Father, though he lived in sin. The fact that Samson asked God to end his life, is quite different than someone taking their own life without communicating it to our Heavenly Father. Samson killed more people when he died than when he lived.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
3,114
2,508
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#2
I'm not sure the point of this thread. It is not written in a way to teach anything, nor to facilitate discussion.
You expressed the Catholic view, tagged Christian denominations to it, vaguely, put depression and disobedience in the same category then gave examples of supposed suicides in the Bible, without stating where any of this is in the Bible.
So what was the goal?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#3
Samson prayed to God for his strength back to...

a. Get vengance on the Philistines
b. Kill himself in the process

God granted his request...KNOWING the Holiness of God...

Would he grant a request that leads directly to sin?

Samson makes the 11th chapter of Hebrews under faith!
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,881
1,224
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#4
You are not your own you were bought with a price...

Testing the Lord is serious. I agree with the second post, where would you like to go with this? It's a sensitive topic and should be handled with care.
 
Jul 17, 2020
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#5
Ultimately I believe that salvation is irrevocable besides blasphemy. I would say in any case that we have a just God, and he is the only one who would know the heart of the one committing suicide. I believe that certain rash decisions can be made in the heat of the moment, How a person thinks or feels in the final moments of their life is a mystery whose truth is held only by their creator. It isn't our place to worry about it regardless.

[6] But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), [7] or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” [8] But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, [9] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; (Romans 10:6-9 [NASB])

Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God. (I Corinthians 4:5 [NASB])

We are justified by our faith not by our works. We are declared righteous by faith, not by law. All of the answers are in Paul's letter to the Romans. It is a good read if you have the time.
 

laughingheart

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2016
1,709
1,668
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#6
I believe our God is loving and merciful. The level of despair and possibly mental illness required to take one's own life is profound. I am so glad that these things are decided by a God who sorrows for our pains. If someone is plagued by mental illness and is not in their right mind when they act I know that God's justice will be much more merciful that man's.
 

AndyMaleh

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2020
863
526
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
#7
Samson was a martyr; what he did wasn't suicide.

Anyways, I agree with the Roman Catholic Church's position on suicide; that is if a Christian takes his or her life, it is unpardoned, therefore they are not saved.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#8
Ultimately I believe that salvation is irrevocable besides blasphemy. I would say in any case that we have a just God, and he is the only one who would know the heart of the one committing suicide. I believe that certain rash decisions can be made in the heat of the moment, How a person thinks or feels in the final moments of their life is a mystery whose truth is held only by their creator. It isn't our place to worry about it regardless.

[6] But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), [7] or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” [8] But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, [9] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; (Romans 10:6-9 [NASB])

Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God. (I Corinthians 4:5 [NASB])

We are justified by our faith not by our works. We are declared righteous by faith, not by law. All of the answers are in Paul's letter to the Romans. It is a good read if you have the time.
Blasphemy in context boils down to unbelief into the work of Christ and it being from God....a man that will not believe cannot be forgiven!
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#9
Samson was a martyr; what he did wasn't suicide.

Anyways, I agree with the Roman Catholic Church's position on suicide; that is if a Christian takes his or her life, it is unpardoned, therefore they are not saved.
That's a misunderstanding.

It's true that there would be little or no time to repent, but God doesn't need time, and most likely it would remain an internal movement if it happened. From a Christian perspective there is a serious obstruction. This person can be entrusted to the mercy of God. That God forgives them and they want that and want to restore their friendship. That's a Catholic view.
 
May 31, 2020
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#10
God’s ways are not our ways. His grace is irrevocable and sufficient, ye of little faith.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#12
That's a misunderstanding.

It's true that there would be little or no time to repent, but God doesn't need time, and most likely it would remain an internal movement if it happened. From a Christian perspective there is a serious obstruction. This person can be entrusted to the mercy of God. That God forgives them and they want that and want to restore their friendship. That's a Catholic view.
I think that it partially depends on the motivation. Is their a caveat to; ' I will never leave or forsake you," (unless you commit suicide?) It's not there.

Depression and mental illness is real. Many are sick. I don't think the Lord will turn his back on his sick children, which they are to him.








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soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,367
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#13
I've not known anyone who died of suicide.
I wonder how the belief that everything that happens no matter what is part of God's will and plan fits with that? As an answer for it happening.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#14
I've not known anyone who died of suicide.
I wonder how the belief that everything that happens no matter what is part of God's will and plan fits with that? As an answer for it happening.
I cannot see how someone choosing to take their own life is within God's will for that person.. it is a choice they make.

I have known too many teenagers, adults and even a young boy of eleven, who have committed suicide and the outfall for family and friends is horrible. :cry:
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#15
think that it partially depends on the motivation. Is their a caveat to; ' I will never leave or forsake you," (unless you commit suicide?) It's not there.
there is the freedom to not believe and leave. Several examples of that in Scriptures. Jesus isn't a control freak is He? B

Your point in regards of mental illness is well made. I think that can reduce culpability to zero.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#16
Part of the myth about suicide being a ticket straight to hell was propogated by the RCC long ago because people in fear of losing their salvation, who lacked faith, understanding and didn't think they would measure up, `According to works and sacraments would commit suicide after recieving "Holy Communion". (a shortcut to heaven in order to avoid hell) In a convoluted way they connected suicide to the traitor Judas Escariot (whom everybody hated) and declared it a mortal sin.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#17
Part of the myth about suicide being a ticket straight to hell was propogated by the RCC long ago because people in fear of losing their salvation, who lacked faith, understanding and didn't think they would measure up, `According to works and sacraments would commit suicide after recieving "Holy Communion". (a shortcut to heaven in order to avoid hell) In a convoluted way they connected suicide to the traitor Judas Escariot (whom everybody hated) and declared it a mortal sin.
If you will explain Catholic teaching you should know what it really teaches. Anti Catholic sources will just keep you ignorant about it.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
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#18
there is the freedom to not believe and leave. Several examples of that in Scriptures. Jesus isn't a control freak is He?
He isn't, however this here is a good argument that really convinced me against saints leaving.

Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

It doesn't get more direct: not only God will not forsake us, but also transform us by giving us a new heart (born again) so that we will not end up departing.

We do have some warnings to believers by both Jesus in Revelation and the apostles, but I don't believe this is proof for walking away, since that would contradict the verses I just posted. I think God works these warnings as His chastisement rod (besides other judgments He may bring about as chastisement) to keep us on track. If the person does have fear of God (born again), they will ultimately heed these warnings. The reprobates are stated in other places to never have believed to begin with, and they are the kind of people to disregard it. They still have the old heart and no fear of God (Rom 3:18).

(Apologizing to the OP for the off topic.)
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#19
If you will explain Catholic teaching you should know what it really teaches. Anti Catholic sources will just keep you ignorant about it.
I was Baptized at Mary Star of the Sea parish before I can remember. Went to Cathechisim from 2nd grade to 9th. was confirmed and went to a Catholic high school. But got saved at 27 y.o,a. I cast the RCC aside and decided to study the bible first. Not claiming any faith other than generic christian. I not anti catholic at all, (small 'C') I'm anti Vatican. No man reins as leader of the universal christian church other than Jesus of Nazareth.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#20
I was Baptized at Mary Star of the Sea parish before I can remember. Went to Cathechisim from 2nd grade to 9th. was confirmed and went to a Catholic high school. But got saved at 27 y.o,a. I cast the RCC aside and decided to study the bible first. Not claiming any faith other than generic christian. I not anti catholic at all, (small 'C') I'm anti Vatican. No man reins as leader of the universal christian church other than Jesus of Nazareth.
Nevertheless, if what you are posting is what you cast aside you didn't cast aside Catholicism.