Suicide

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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
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#21
Part of the myth about suicide being a ticket straight to hell was propogated by the RCC long ago because people in fear of losing their salvation, who lacked faith, understanding and didn't think they would measure up, `According to works and sacraments would commit suicide after recieving "Holy Communion". (a shortcut to heaven in order to avoid hell) In a convoluted way they connected suicide to the traitor Judas Escariot (whom everybody hated) and declared it a mortal sin.
This is similar to the teachings of Eastern Orthodox that I am more familiar with. They severely stigmatize suicide and ban priests from being present at burial to say the last prayers with the family. I have two family members who attempted suicide (but thankfully survived at hospital with some body damage) and I have a history of suicidal depression myself. I hate the idea of suicide because I don't believe it's the solution. Nobody actually wants to die, they want to live free of suffering, so I usually begin with that when talking with suicidal people, and they do invariably acknowledge that. So I am not a denier or invalidator of mental issues like some people are. But there's still a shred of control we have over mind as compared to body, even when the mind is in a horrible condition. I would be careful in pronouncing condemnation, not just for suicide but about anyone. Only God knows our status, ours is to try by love to prevent suicidal depressed or other mentally ill people from leaving us and help them to manage their condition if it cannot be healed. People want to condemn but they do not want to learn how to provide support, they stigmatize and avoid people who are mentally ill. Maybe being more loving would help them push through and make life a bit worthwhile??? Just a thought.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#22
Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
But we know there are those who received the Holy Spirit but went back to waiting for another messiah. If it weren't possible it wouldn't be a danger and that's the only reason for a warning.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,891
2,532
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#23
Some believe that suicide is the same as murder, since one is murdering their own self. When someone takes their own life, they are rejecting our Lord's gift of life. The Roman Catholic Church believes if a Christian takes his or her life, it is unpardoned, therefore they are not saved. Other Church denominations have followed suit with this belief. What does the Bible say about suicide? There is not many that the Bible lists that took their own life. Most of them were the result of a prolonged life of depression and disobedience to God's word. Though there are times when believers may have to give their lives for Jesus, but voluntary martyrdom is not usually considered suicide. Here are a few people in the Bible that took their own lives, whether they were saved or not, that is God's judgement.

Abimelech He was a son of Gideon and became king of Shechem. He commanded by force, murdered all who opposed him, and was a leader in such a way that questions his allegiance to God.

Saul There is much debate on whether Saul was saved. Scripture tells us of Saul that, "the spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man." Sounds like a born again Christian. Also scripture tells us that, "God gave him another heart," or changed him. Saul was also God's choice to lead Israel.

Ahithophel He was one of king David's most trusted advisors, but also betrayed the king. Scholars debate if he was a man of God.

Zimri He burned a palace down with him inside it. Scripture says he, "sinned in doing evil in the sight of the Lord.....which he did to make Israel sin." Most agree, he was not a man of God.

Judas Ischariot He was one of the original 12 disciples of Jesus, and of course betrayed Jesus. Here is what Jesus said of him, "woe unto that man by whom the son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born." Pretty harsh words coming from our Savior. Judas was with Jesus for 3 years and was given ample opportunity for salvation and repentance. Some claim that by Judas giving the money back to the pharisees was an act of repentance. ***Interesting to note that Judas was given power and authority over demons, to proclaim the word of God, and to heal and perform miracles by Jesus. But did he have saving faith?

Samson "O Lord God remember me I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes." Its obvious that Samson believed in our Heavenly Father, though he lived in sin. The fact that Samson asked God to end his life, is quite different than someone taking their own life without communicating it to our Heavenly Father. Samson killed more people when he died than when he lived.
I think it is a logical fallacy here by judging the standing of a work by the ultimate standing with God of the people who committed it. David had committed adultery and Samson was a womanizer, but that doesn't make adultery or womanizing good, and pharisees did some charity work too, which doesn't mean charity is bad. And further, the same work can be done with a different heart.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#24
There is something a person is trying to find even when committing suicide. Happiness. The heartbreaking thing about that is happiness is a natural beacon the source of which is God.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#26
There is something a person is trying to find even when committing suicide. Happiness. The heartbreaking thing about that is happiness is a natural beacon the source of which is God.
Agreed however some just want an escape while others see suicide as a way out of a hopeless and or incredibly painful life.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#27
There is something a person is trying to find even when committing suicide. Happiness. The heartbreaking thing about that is happiness is a natural beacon the source of which is God.

People who commit suicide are often also punishing others.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
#28
Nevertheless, if what you are posting is what you cast aside you didn't cast aside Catholicism.
OK so I left it like a car wreck. My mothers side of the family are all catholic as my first wife's family. Many of my friends and family are still faithfull to the doctrines of works and sacrements but reject getting born again is required for salvation. They've even tried to reconvert me and convince me I need to put faith in works, images of Mary, the cross, sacraments and prayer to saints and Mary instead of only Jesus. I don't hate them. I hate the dogma that brainwashed them.

Many here believe the RCC is the great prostitute from revelations. I won't go that far.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#29
I have not researched this topic but I have read a few times that the Bible is silent on suicide. We can assume suicide is wrong because life is precious. Many people who commit suicide have mental illness or are suffering in some way. I know a couple of people who committed suicide, it came as a huge shock and no hints were given, except in retrospect. Also, a gay son of someone from church committed suicide. I think it is un-Christian to make a judgement call on people who commit suicide.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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#30
If you will explain Catholic teaching you should know what it really teaches. Anti Catholic sources will just keep you ignorant about it.
That doesn't appear to make you more knowledgeable about Catholicism than what you imagine calibob is.
If you think someone here is ignorant, rather than call them so why not contribute your superior knowledge to education? Rather than whatever you meant calibob to take from your post?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
17,192
5,794
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#31
Both Jonah and Job were suicidal, and expressed they wanted to die, but they did not commit suicide. Elijah also was depressed.

with Judas, its said in the Bible that Satan entered him. I think Satan can and does enter into peoples, influence their thoughts, and cause death. Not just other people around them but like a virus that kills its host.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,367
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#32
Both Jonah and Job were suicidal, and expressed they wanted to die, but they did not commit suicide. Elijah also was depressed.

with Judas, its said in the Bible that Satan entered him. I think Satan can and does enter into peoples, influence their thoughts, and cause death. Not just other people around them but like a virus that kills its host.
Were the apostles carrying the holy spirit when they walked with Jesus?
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,484
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Anaheim, Cali.
#33
Were the apostles carrying the holy spirit when they walked with Jesus?
I don't think so, not till Pentacost at least. Besides would the HOLY SPIRIT have allowed Peter to curse and deny Jesus the night he was arrested if the H.S. dwelt within him??
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#34
The issue with the idea of killing yourself equals eternal damnation is that the Catholic church is not known for their gentleness understanding and love.
If an unsaved person does this I can understand but even as a Christian we can be beaten down so badly that sometimes one simply is unable to carry on.
My personal belief is that God takes into account the heart of the person and the struggles that lead them to the act. If Jesus himself says that father gives him his children and he will never lose them once they are his and if salvation is based entirely on Christ and not ourselves then how is our salvation suddenly placed in our hands if we just cannot take anymore and take our lives?
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#35
Ok a couple of examples.
Part of the myth about suicide being a ticket straight to hell was propogated by the RCC long ago because people in fear of losing their salvation, who lacked faith, understanding and didn't think they would measure up, `According to works and sacraments would commit suicide after recieving "Holy Communion". (a shortcut to heaven in order to avoid hell) a convoluted Inway they connected suicide to the traitor Judas Escariot (whom everybody hated) and declared it a mortal sin.


This demonstrates a lack of understanding about Communion.
For one that would be a ticket to hell not heaven.
Every Catholic knows that they shouldn't receive communion if they aren't in a state of Grace. If someone's last act is a mortal sin it doesn't matter if they received communion right before that because it changes nothing. They weren't in a state of Grace right before death. I don't know any Catholic who w ouldn't be horrified for anyone to do this.

convoluted Inway they connected suicide to the traitor Judas Escariot (whom everybody hated) and declared it a mortal sin.

This is just bizarre. Seemingly formulated on the false assumptions that the Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist forgives sin and Judas Iscariot is a Saint.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,367
113
#36
Agreed however some just want an escape while others see suicide as a way out of a hopeless and or incredibly painful life.
Makes sense. It is said suicide is selfish because while the suffering one departs their seemingly inescapable troubles, they leave behind everyone who now grieves for not seeing the trouble in order to help save that life.

Maybe we can help anyone who may be reading this and are still able to be reached.

In America, National Suicide Prevention Hotline 1-800-273-8255 It's a free call. No charge to your phone bill.

For fellow Christians, Christian Suicide Prevention. 1-888-864-6884 Also a no charge call.
We are also able to volunteer to help people there. This is their site link. http://www.christiansuicideprevention.com/

I love the hope and message instilled at that site. You haven't made too many mistakes.

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
18,082
2,130
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#38
You know this topic is actually a pretty big thing in my life, I lost several people who I was either trying to help on here or were close to to suicide and more than that I myself struggle with suicidal thoughts all the time I have even attempted several times but luckily am to much of a winp to go through the pain of it except for this one time not very long ago in fact where things got so bad where I was so destroyed inside that I could feel how close I was to going through with it.

I know where we keep our knives and i felt how easy it would be for me to just slit my throat I simply didn't care anymore at all

However while I have attempted before I was never so determined as this and was so terrified because I knew I was unable to stop myself my body just seemed to be moving on it's own because of how determined I was.
It was so close that I had to force my legs to stop moving broke down in utter terror and tears begging God to save me because I knew I was about to do it without heswitation and suddenly it was like I was free from it.

In all my times of attempting I feared the possibility that I would go straight to hell the first time I tried to cut my arm to make it bleed to death and in my tears begged father to forgive me and not to send me to hell then tried to poison myself but couldn't stomach it then again pone time I tried to walk straight into traffic.

All these times I always came close but God intervened somehow, and if I had gone through with it would God see my heart instead of the act or would I go to hell?

Even I am not entirely sure, I believe he would see the heart but even the small chance one goes to hell makes me fearful not just for myself but for anyone else whpo does it
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,484
113
Anaheim, Cali.
#39
I was a suicide prevention counselor at Melodyland Christian Center for a couple of years. That was forbidden. However what constitutes a mortal sin is a different question. Is suicide equal to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? In a sick or depressed mind?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
18,082
2,130
113
#40
I was a suicide prevention counselor at Melodyland Christian Center for a couple of years. That was forbidden. However what constitutes a mortal sin is a different question. Is suicide equal to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? In a sick or depressed mind?
Oh wow really? even though it was forbidden you still did it? you are amazing:D
I could be wrong about this but I don't think suicide is blaspheming the holy spirit creating a mortal sin at the very least not if it has to do with an ill mind or because life becomes so bad people don't have it in them to go on.
One thing Jesus had more than anything was compassion, he saw the inner wounds and inner bleeding of people and felt compassion for them and helped them whenever he could, if one kills themselves or even tries to because of this I don't think they would go to hell.

Because people often times forget that the inner wounds and inner scars are the ones that cut the deepest and are the most difficult to heal