Take me to your leader

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,602
3,250
113
#21
I've noticed that people commonly misspell "lose" as "loose" when they teach that they believe someone can "lose" their salvation. :giggle:
Correct. Also, most writers don't know how to distinguish between lie and lay and laid.

As to the OP, there are many factors in operation for the wide range of interpretations, including the use of myriads of Bible versions and denomination positions.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#22
It seems Jesus is addressing people who believe and people who say they believe, ergo eventually they separate, like oil and water.

I cannot, or bettr, will not go into detail as to what I believe because I would not want to change the Word or pollute it with mere notions from my pea brain….. I will be going to bed soon.....it is a bit chilly, and coming up on 8 o'clodk, lol.
I'll tell you this, my brother friend, thanks for your time and for your thoughts. I pray He warms you us and brings you much rest.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#23
Correct. Also, most writers don't know how to distinguish between lie and lay and laid.

As to the OP, there are many factors in operation for the wide range of interpretations, including the use of myriads of Bible versions and denomination positions.
Lol, I know that I need help with my spelling and grammer so please feel free, if you have the time, to correct me. Seriously, for the longest time I was using then where than should be. How embarrassing bro. Finally, someone reached out and said...pssst you might want to read up on the correct ways use those different words. I did, lol.
I could not agree more Nehemiah about the many contributing factors to why we come to many different conclusions. I reckon that is yet another reason why it will be so sweet when He comes back, bringing no room for error with His ultimate revealing.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#26
Its good to see I am not only one whose fingers do not work right..lol
Hahaha, man oh man, brother, thanks for owning up, lol. For me, it is an operator end issue. My brain trips over thick patches of air, from time to time, lolol.
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,164
10,564
113
#27
I think one problem is we all have our “fathers” church, Who grew us and we saw our parents show much faith in their beliefs, and we came to love and trust those who led us and helped us grow.

When someone comes and tries to take that away from us with a different belief, We feel attacked personally. As well as those we love. So it leads to division.

I know I had this issue for many years.. I was very proud and God really had to shake me to get me to release some of that pride and open my heart that others may be right
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,164
10,564
113
#28
Hahaha, man oh man, brother, thanks for owning up, lol. For me, it is an operator end issue. My brain trips over thick patches of air, from time to time, lolol.
Lol, You should save this quote and get it copyrighted!! That was awesome!! Thanks..
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#29
I think one problem is we all have our “fathers” church, Who grew us and we saw our parents show much faith in their beliefs, and we came to love and trust those who led us and helped us grow.

When someone comes and tries to take that away from us with a different belief, We feel attacked personally. As well as those we love. So it leads to division.

I know I had this issue for many years.. I was very proud and God really had to shake me to get me to release some of that pride and open my heart that others may be right
I couldn't agree more. I think you reply shows humility, wisdom and insight. I too am very thankful for His mercy and guidance. I have needed them, or rather Him, greatly, and will continue to. Praise be to the Great "I Am"!!!
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,164
10,564
113
#30
I couldn't agree more. I think you reply shows humility, wisdom and insight. I too am very thankful for His mercy and guidance. I have needed them, or rather Him, greatly, and will continue to. Praise be to the Great "I Am"!!!
I can still be hard headed and pridefull. And I am sure quite a few here will back me up on that!! Lol

But I pray until the day I die I will stay open,, When we get stuck thinking we know it all. We are in deep trouble.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#31
I can still be hard headed and pridefull. And I am sure quite a few here will back me up on that!! Lol

But I pray until the day I die I will stay open,, When we get stuck thinking we know it all. We are in deep trouble.
1000 Amens...

Yes that points to this, huh..

Though growing pains hurt, they are better than the repetitious pains ensued from not growing at all. I, at my ripe old age of 53, want to keep growing, despite the uncomfy frustration and pain that comes with it. Wait now their is one exception to that rule...

I am sick and tired of growing outwardly, lol.
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,164
10,564
113
#32
1000 Amens...

Yes that points to this, huh..

Though growing pains hurt, they are better than the repetitious pains ensued from not growing at all. I, at my ripe old age of 53, want to keep growing, despite the uncomfy frustration and pain that comes with it. Wait now their is one exception to that rule...

I am sick and tired of growing outwardly, lol.
We are still young sis (I am 53 also :)) But I feel your pain. I started to work out in the Gym because of my rapidly growing midsection and rapidly decreasing energy!!
 
Dec 28, 2016
8,157
1,755
113
#33
But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 2 Peter 1:20 NASB
CharliRenee,

Perhaps I may insert some thought here on this oft quoted passage generally directed at individual interpretation of Scripture. I don't believe, if you take a look at it, that is what is intended, at least here in this passage.

Is this what the passage is speaking of, that we aren't to have our own individual interpretations? (I would agree we should compare the with those who are learned).

Or, could it be that he is speaking of the writers of the OT Scriptures, that what they wrote was not their own private interpretation, but was instead God breathed theopneustos that they penned, devoid of any admixture on their part? I believe when we look at it, this is exactly what is intended. (I know, I'm such a stickler!) :p

Look at the next verse:

"For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 1 Peter 1:21

We can see plainly this has to do with the OT prophecies or Scripture and the authors. In other words they didn't just write what they wanted to say.

And you coupled the above with this wonderful passage:

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:8‭-‬9 NASB

I hear what you're saying, but we must be careful to not think that we are off on our own, that we only need God to teach us as some may well do. There are many who say this, this we know. But many false doctrines arise due to this, and many are seen on this site, taking Scripture out of context is generally the culprit.

Some believe this is to be spiritual though, that only God taught them. Yet, is this really true? Well sure, somebody somewhere got everything they believe all on their own without consulting anyone, and said teaching will generally be way off track.

But God gives insight to those grounded in truth and they come up with clear, contextual accurate and consistent interpretations: Not pitting Scripture against Scripture.

There is safety in how God decreed teaching to happen; Ephesians 4:11-15 (and note the reason in verse 14, these are there from God so we don't get tossed around with every wind of doctrine, like on here). There are many other Scriptures in the NT and the OT that deal with our godly teachers, how we should honor them, be taught by them.

We see that God has set this order for protection, unity, sound doctrine.

We also need to take heed here, of the "unlearned" and the Biblical warning about this.

Note 2 Peter 3:14-18 &c:

"Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."

You'll probably think I'm just being ugly again, but the fact remains many just should not be teaching, they do not know what they are talking about, and they introduce destructive teachings into the church due to ignorance and taking Scripture out of context.

There is much more to this, but just some food for thought.

Now I'll just go back to being ugly, divisive...or...maybe it's just my being relentless for proper, sound, consistent, and contextually exegeted Scripture. ;)

Oh, we love this song, It goes along with your thread title:

 

Miri

The Thingy Member
Jul 22, 2012
9,253
2,252
113
UK age 51
#34
Hi Charlie. I think there are many reasons for the attitudes we see and we
are all capable of.

PMT
Menapause
Stress
Tiredness
Wanting to get the last word
Pride
We can’t hear each other and see body language.
Macho men (see men have their own version of PMT!)
Not reading posts properly.
Some people assume the best about people, some the worst.
Imitators of people (we use the same language of our parents) instead of imitating God.
Lack of patience and understanding.
Having bad days.
Some people are genuine trolls and like to play games.

Pretty much that we are all human and none of us are “there yet”.


We have annual staff surveys and part of the survey includes a wellness or otherwise
section. The reason being is that it’s proven. if someone is not positive about life or
stressed generally. They will return more negative responses.
But that might be a chicken and egg thing. Are people less positive about work
because life generally isn’t good. Or is it that life isn’t good because work isn’t good?

Same could apply to CC responses, if life isn’t good maybe that causes more
negative responses etc.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,847
803
113
#35
Ok, how can I address this in a manner that is both clear and concise? How can I write this such that there is zero room for varying interpretations, where nothing is lost in translation? Impossible to do, right? Sure, because we are all different, with different mindsets and perceptions, influenced by so many different conditions.

I have always been intrigued with the varying interpretations in the word. I mean...assuming we are addressing only 100 bible believing individuals, all of them eager to learn, all humble and teachable, all filled with the Spirit, how is it that we, the body of His, just can't seem to find harmony amongst the scriptures?

Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 1:10 NASB

That verse seems pretty clear to me. It also makes sense that a God of Order who gave us the Word, the Example, and the Holy Spirit, would have very specific, non varying, truths.

I also think it sad how we, myself included, often treat one another, especially our Christian Brothers and Sisters. Again, it seems we are missing something in the translation. I see so many closed, hard hearted, suspicious, harsh and unloving people. I get that we should be wise as serpents, but that it should be balanced with gentle as doves. We are called to love one another in unity.

To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit;
1 Peter 3:8 NASB

I know that it sounds like I am attacking us or suggesting that we all get along, as if that were possible on this side of Heaven. I fall short pleanty and am so far from having arrived, so don't think I am pirched upon a soap box of self righteousness because I am as messed up as the rest of us. I just find it so bazaar as to why it is so hard for us, who are supposedly Spirit filled, to have such a hard time coming together in one accord. Can you imagine the influence we would have as ambassadors for Christ, appealing God's case, if we all extended love and mercy as we are called, all while standing firm in the truths of the word? How is that possible without humility and gentleness, and without our ability to come into agreement with reference to finding harmony amongst the scriptures?

I suppose the reason is simple. We have that glitch of humanity that gets in our way. We will always need Jesus, His perfect Love, Grace, and Understanding, to get us there.

For me, until I find harmony amongst all scriptures, I will continue to go back to the drawing board. The drawing board is Him. Until I always put forth and interact, react and respond, in a manner that pleases my Heavenly Father, I know that more growth is needed. I think it's fair and accurate to say that I will always need His help to find beautiful harmony in all my thoughts and actions, in mercy and justice, and in all the scriptures.

I take great comfort that as long as He is my leader, I'm headed in the right direction. My end goal, my mission statement is this...to have a mindset and heartset that always points others to my Leader.

Love you all because of Jesus. God Bless you and yours.
Well Spoken Sister. Regards.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
1,847
803
113
#36
But..but...but isn't that division to be between the world and His, not amongst His? Btw, I welcome opposing thought and agreeable ones too, hahaha. Good profitable discussion can be derived from both, right? So your wet blanket is still comfy to me, my brother friend. I appreciate your honesty, it was well delivered.
But..but...but isn't that division to be between the world and His, not amongst His?

Absolutely correct.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#37
CharliRenee,

Perhaps I may insert some thought here on this oft quoted passage generally directed at individual interpretation of Scripture. I don't believe, if you take a look at it, that is what is intended, at least here in this passage.

Is this what the passage is speaking of, that we aren't to have our own individual interpretations? (I would agree we should compare the with those who are learned).

Or, could it be that he is speaking of the writers of the OT Scriptures, that what they wrote was not their own private interpretation, but was instead God breathed theopneustos that they penned, devoid of any admixture on their part? I believe when we look at it, this is exactly what is intended. (I know, I'm such a stickler!) :p

Look at the next verse:

"For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." 1 Peter 1:21

We can see plainly this has to do with the OT prophecies or Scripture and the authors. In other words they didn't just write what they wanted to say.

And you coupled the above with this wonderful passage:

But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Matthew 23:8‭-‬9 NASB

I hear what you're saying, but we must be careful to not think that we are off on our own, that we only need God to teach us as some may well do. There are many who say this, this we know. But many false doctrines arise due to this, and many are seen on this site, taking Scripture out of context is generally the culprit.

Some believe this is to be spiritual though, that only God taught them. Yet, is this really true? Well sure, somebody somewhere got everything they believe all on their own without consulting anyone, and said teaching will generally be way off track.

But God gives insight to those grounded in truth and they come up with clear, contextual accurate and consistent interpretations: Not pitting Scripture against Scripture.

There is safety in how God decreed teaching to happen; Ephesians 4:11-15 (and note the reason in verse 14, these are there from God so we don't get tossed around with every wind of doctrine, like on here). There are many other Scriptures in the NT and the OT that deal with our godly teachers, how we should honor them, be taught by them.

We see that God has set this order for protection, unity, sound doctrine.

We also need to take heed here, of the "unlearned" and the Biblical warning about this.

Note 2 Peter 3:14-18 &c:

"Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. 15And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures."

You'll probably think I'm just being ugly again, but the fact remains many just should not be teaching, they do not know what they are talking about, and they introduce destructive teachings into the church due to ignorance and taking Scripture out of context.

There is much more to this, but just some food for thought.

Now I'll just go back to being ugly, divisive...or...maybe it's just my being relentless for proper, sound, consistent, and contextually exegeted Scripture. ;)

Oh, we love this song, It goes along with your thread title:

No, you are definitely NOT being ugly. I know that my dog with a bone with regards to how we communicate to one another has come across like I wish everything said was delivered with the smell of roses. I love discussion and the freedom to discuss a matter out, especially when we don't agree, without it causing a riff in our opinions of another, or cause us to step out of His Spirit into our flesh. I think we can get far in such kinds of debates filled with mindful, well thought out, and researched responses. Brother, Your approach here is spot on and I agree that we should NOT limit our resources to just our time in the word, nor shall we be tossed about simply because we are open to every perception or every interpretation. Heaven forbid, confusion and chaos would definitely surface, more often than not. While I like to think I can see some truths in many positions, (can see why they draw their conclusions), I also have found it impossible for anyone to be 100% spot on. With that said, someone was talking with me about how heated and offensive the BDF can be. I have thought often on this matter. While I think we can all grow and do better, I have learned a thing or two reading opposing views. I think if what we believe can not withstand scrutiny, than what we believe is uncertain. I don't know if that makes sense. I guess it just causes one to go back to the word and study some more. I look forward to knowing as much that many of you know. Not for prideful reasons, but because there is nothing as valuable as the word of God, nothing except God, Himself.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,372
15,185
113
#38
Ok, how can I address this in a manner that is both clear and concise? How can I write this such that there is zero room for varying interpretations, where nothing is lost in translation? Impossible to do, right? Sure, because we are all different, with different mindsets and perceptions, influenced by so many different conditions.

I have always been intrigued with the varying interpretations in the word. I mean...assuming we are addressing only 100 bible believing individuals, all of them eager to learn, all humble and teachable, all filled with the Spirit, how is it that we, the body of His, just can't seem to find harmony amongst the scriptures?

Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 1:10 NASB

That verse seems pretty clear to me. It also makes sense that a God of Order who gave us the Word, the Example, and the Holy Spirit, would have very specific, non varying, truths.

I also think it sad how we, myself included, often treat one another, especially our Christian Brothers and Sisters. Again, it seems we are missing something in the translation. I see so many closed, hard hearted, suspicious, harsh and unloving people. I get that we should be wise as serpents, but that it should be balanced with gentle as doves. We are called to love one another in unity.

To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit;
1 Peter 3:8 NASB

I know that it sounds like I am attacking us or suggesting that we all get along, as if that were possible on this side of Heaven. I fall short pleanty and am so far from having arrived, so don't think I am pirched upon a soap box of self righteousness because I am as messed up as the rest of us. I just find it so bazaar as to why it is so hard for us, who are supposedly Spirit filled, to have such a hard time coming together in one accord. Can you imagine the influence we would have as ambassadors for Christ, appealing God's case, if we all extended love and mercy as we are called, all while standing firm in the truths of the word? How is that possible without humility and gentleness, and without our ability to come into agreement with reference to finding harmony amongst the scriptures?

I suppose the reason is simple. We have that glitch of humanity that gets in our way. We will always need Jesus, His perfect Love, Grace, and Understanding, to get us there.

For me, until I find harmony amongst all scriptures, I will continue to go back to the drawing board. The drawing board is Him. Until I always put forth and interact, react and respond, in a manner that pleases my Heavenly Father, I know that more growth is needed. I think it's fair and accurate to say that I will always need His help to find beautiful harmony in all my thoughts and actions, in mercy and justice, and in all the scriptures.

I take great comfort that as long as He is my leader, I'm headed in the right direction. My end goal, my mission statement is this...to have a mindset and heartset that always points others to my Leader.

Love you all because of Jesus. God Bless you and yours.
The absolute truth....any and all unity is based upon the word of God.......two CANNOT walk together unless they be AGREED.....<----this principle rings true and I fully believe there is ONE constant and central truth to EVERYTHING in the word of GOD......and I fully believe that the word of GOD will LEAD ALL to the SAME TRUTH if we are honest with the word and context......if there is a disagreement on the word of GOD then one of the following is absolutely true.

a. One is right and one is wrong
b. Both are wrong

There are no HALF TRUTHS........
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#39
Hi Charlie. I think there are many reasons for the attitudes we see and we
are all capable of.

PMT
Menapause
Stress
Tiredness
Wanting to get the last word
Pride
We can’t hear each other and see body language.
Macho men (see men have their own version of PMT!)
Not reading posts properly.
Some people assume the best about people, some the worst.
Imitators of people (we use the same language of our parents) instead of imitating God.
Lack of patience and understanding.
Having bad days.
Some people are genuine trolls and like to play games.

Pretty much that we are all human and none of us are “there yet”.


We have annual staff surveys and part of the survey includes a wellness or otherwise
section. The reason being is that it’s proven. if someone is not positive about life or
stressed generally. They will return more negative responses.
But that might be a chicken and egg thing. Are people less positive about work
because life generally isn’t good. Or is it that life isn’t good because work isn’t good?

Same could apply to CC responses, if life isn’t good maybe that causes more
negative responses etc.
Your list had me laughing, right off the bat. Menopause, not too many scriptures that address what to do with that pesky creature, lol. Seriously though, you make good points about our human conditions, our own unique perceptions and responses to our experiences, not to mention genetic predispositions. It is simply like you said none of us are "there" yet. And when we get close, usually another ugh thing will come along. Thank God for Jesus, the ultimate ugh transformer, if only, also like you said, follow His lead only.
 

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
Nov 4, 2014
4,787
5,459
113
#40
The absolute truth....any and all unity is based upon the word of God.......two CANNOT walk together unless they be AGREED.....<----this principle rings true and I fully believe there is ONE constant and central truth to EVERYTHING in the word of GOD......and I fully believe that the word of GOD will LEAD ALL to the SAME TRUTH if we are honest with the word and context......if there is a disagreement on the word of GOD then one of the following is absolutely true.

a. One is right and one is wrong
b. Both are wrong

There are no HALF TRUTHS........
Hmmmm, now my first thought was BAM, spot on. Then i thought about what I just said to another, about seeing some truth in different interpretations. Now I'm pondering my own thoughts on this matter. I think it is possible and probable, if we study enough, to find 100% harmony in the scriptures, in the One. He does not lie, He does not change and He is a God of order. Finding harmony with other believers, on the other hand is nearly impossible, but thanks be to Him and His word, we have hope.