The Authenticity of 1 John 5:7.

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Aug 31, 2022
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#1
"For there are three that bear witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." 1 Jn 5:7 NKJV.

This verse that speaks of the Trinity is omitted in the Critical Text ( and hence, most modern translations), when there is ample evidence to its antiquity.

It is in the Old Latin version of the Bible AD 150. Older that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts.

It is in the Latin Vulgate.

Erasmus included it in the Received Text.

Cyprian quotes this verse in His writings. He lived in the middle of the third century.

I could go on with further evidence.

However the question to be asked is why the Revisors left this vital verse out of the Critical Text?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
4,778
1,901
113
#2
"For there are three that bear witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." 1 Jn 5:7 NKJV.

This verse that speaks of the Trinity is omitted in the Critical Text ( and hence, most modern translations), when there is ample evidence to its antiquity.

It is in the Old Latin version of the Bible AD 150. Older that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts.

It is in the Latin Vulgate.

Erasmus included it in the Received Text.

Cyprian quotes this verse in His writings. He lived in the middle of the third century.

I could go on with further evidence.

However the question to be asked is why the Revisors left this vital verse out of the Critical Text?
Erasmus didn't include it in his first editions of the Textus Receptus (I believe the first two, but certainly his first edition). After studying the manuscript evidence, he felt it didn't legitimately belong. However, after pressure from Rome he included it.
 

Ted01

Active member
May 14, 2022
264
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#3
there is ample evidence to its antiquity.
It seems to me that most scholars disagree that there is "ample evidence"... and in fact say that the evidence for it is rare until the 15th century, and nonexistent in the oldest manuscripts.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
21,841
11,882
113
#4
"For there are three that bear witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." 1 Jn 5:7 NKJV.

Erasmus included it in the Received Text.
Do a little more homework on this statement. He only included it in his third edition.

However the question to be asked is why the Revisors left this vital verse out of the Critical Text?
"Revisors"? That seems rather loaded. Perhaps you are trying to start an argument rather than have a discussion.
 
Aug 31, 2022
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#5
Revisors as in the English Revised version. Wescott and Hort etc.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,281
388
83
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#6
"For there are three that bear witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." 1 Jn 5:7 NKJV.

This verse that speaks of the Trinity is omitted in the Critical Text ( and hence, most modern translations), when there is ample evidence to its antiquity.

It is in the Old Latin version of the Bible AD 150. Older that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts.

It is in the Latin Vulgate.

Erasmus included it in the Received Text.

Cyprian quotes this verse in His writings. He lived in the middle of the third century.

I could go on with further evidence.

However the question to be asked is why the Revisors left this vital verse out of the Critical Text?
Most of the textual variant authorities agree that it should not be there. Like all variant decisions, it is based upon age of the manuscripts and the number of copies that either include or exclude a particular set of wordings. The Greek copies are given heavier weight than any others because the "original autographs" were written in the "Koine Greek".

This longer reading, included in the KJV, was found in eight Greek manuscripts of the 16th century. In four of those eight, it was included as a note in the margin. There is no supporting evidence for this longer version before the 16th century, in either manuscript, patristic, or Greek translation of some other version. It did appear in the Acts of the Lateran Council of AD 1215 which was written in Latin. However, this work was considered an allegory of the Greek text, to represent the Trinity. Erasmus included it in his final work.

In reality, the issue is history, not heresy: How can one argue that the Comma Johanneum must go back to the original text when it did not appear until the 16th century in any Greek manuscripts? The earliest manuscript, codex 221 (10th century), includes the reading in a marginal note which was added sometime after the original composition.

Hope this is helpful.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
3,492
2,007
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Texas
#7
I only ask one question. If its in does it change anything? If its out does it cha ge anything?
When i look at the text that is there and it seem that it would be a difficult read to leave out verse seven.
Verse 7 and 8 work very well together amd confirm each other.
 
Jan 19, 2023
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#8
It was just another attempt of the Trinnies to sneak something in there!
 
Jan 19, 2023
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#9
Jehovah is spirit, Christ is spirit, angels and demons are spirits.
There is no Nameless Part of God named the Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit.

"Spirit" - means an unseen force.
"Holy" - means set aside for holy purposes

God uses His power to do Good!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
14,799
3,079
113
#10
"For there are three that bear witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." 1 Jn 5:7 NKJV.

This verse that speaks of the Trinity is omitted in the Critical Text ( and hence, most modern translations), when there is ample evidence to its antiquity.

It is in the Old Latin version of the Bible AD 150. Older that Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts.

It is in the Latin Vulgate.

Erasmus included it in the Received Text.

Cyprian quotes this verse in His writings. He lived in the middle of the third century.

I could go on with further evidence.

However the question to be asked is why the Revisors left this vital verse out of the Critical Text?
Stick with the KJV, God's preserved holy and pure word for the English language. Never trust anything coming from the Egypt or Rome.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Active member
Jun 24, 2020
494
242
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#11
I only ask one question. If its in does it change anything? If its out does it cha ge anything?
When i look at the text that is there and it seem that it would be a difficult read to leave out verse seven.
Verse 7 and 8 work very well together amd confirm each other.
BINGO!!! IN or OUT = NO difference at all. Might make the "Jesus Only" folks a little more comfortable, but HEY!!! it's only "theology".
 
Jan 19, 2023
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#12
From "https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8"

Before τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα, the Textus Receptus reads ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσι. 5·8 καὶ τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῇ γῇ (“in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 5:8 And there are three that testify on earth”). This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation. However, the evidence—both external and internal—is decidedly against its authenticity. Our discussion will briefly address the external evidence.1
This longer reading is found only in eight late manuscripts, four of which have the words in a marginal note. Most of these manuscripts (2318, 221, and [with minor variations] 61, 88, 429, 629, 636, and 918) originate from the 16th century; the earliest manuscript, codex 221 (10th century), includes the reading in a marginal note which was added sometime after the original composition. Thus, there is no sure evidence of this reading in any Greek manuscript until the 1500s; each such reading was apparently composed after Erasmus’ Greek NT was published in 1516