The authority of the Church

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1Covenant

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#21
I'm just trying to figure out the scope and boundaries of the Word of God and the authority of the Church so that I'll be able to recognize blasphemy vs the Holy Spirit.
H.A.
My advice is not to figure out where it ends but to start where it begins. To start with the basics and do what the early Christians did. Search the scriptures (The OT). These testified of Christ and the NT is simply packed full of the exposition of the OT in this regard. What we have canonized as the OT is canonized mostly in part by what is referenced by Christ and his apostles. If you will know the testimony of Christ to come (OT) then you will know what speaks a true testimony concerning the Christ that has come.

In studying the OT, you will also discover simple principles, as well, that shine godly wisdom in the simpler matters. My favorite is the feast of Purim. This is a feast not ordained by God as all other feasts but is a feast ordained by the people of God in celebration. It was established in celebration of God's deliverance of the Jews from a great enemy and even though it is not a feast established from the mouth of God, Jesus celebrates it in the NT.

Therefore here is wisdom. We have a great reason as Christians to establish the celebration of Christmas. It is THE great celebration of the inauguration of our deliverance. We lift the heads of downcast, proclaiming joy to the world and give gifts to the poor and others, even as they did in the feast of Purim.

It is getting close to Christmas...yeah:D.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#22
Mahogony,

In the “Great Commandment” thread that was begun today, Carpe diem suggests we all ask ourselves, “Do I really know The Father or do I only know OF Him what is spoken by man?”

You seem to want Bible commentaries so you can learn more of what “experts” say about him, but surely Carpe diem is correct. We must come to know the Lord Himself. As the Apostle Paul says, we must constantly be in prayer (1Thes.5:17).

Do you pray?
Bible commentaries are useful to get the correct meaning from the scriptures. Why don't you consult experts in the bible to help you understand what it says? The bible says God gave some to be teachers.
 
S

shad

Guest
#23
I was reading something, and I wonder what you all think of it. Here is what the verse said, and then what the author of the book wrote "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind (prohibit) on earth will be bound in heave, and whatever you loose (permit) on earth will be loosed in heaven. The actions of "binding" and "loosing"in heaven are verbs in the perfect tense, meaning that when Peter binds or looses, it will already have been accomplished in Heaven-that is, Peter follows the will of God in Heaven and not the reverse.

When I asked my priest why we (the Episcopal church) allow women to preach, he told me it was because the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit is capable of leading us through the changes God wants for us. Many people have attacked that theory saying God would never have us change something that was in the Bible, but now that I read that verse, I feel even more that what my priest was saying might be the case. If something is a rule in heaven, and rules can change (example the old laws of moses vs. the new covenant of Jesus), then the Holy Spirit can guide the church to follow that will.

What are your ideas on this verse and it's connotations? (btw, I don't want this to turn into ANOTHER 'reasons why women can't preach' threads. I used the example of women preaching in church because it shows an example of how the Holy Spirit has guided the Episcopal church through a change.)
The church is made up of all those that have been called out of the world who have been saved by grace and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ. That church only has authority through Jesus Christ who is the head of the church. The believers are members of His body, flesh and bones being members one of another. The authority that we have as believers is in Christ who is the head. The Holy Spirit is in us to reveal Christ as our head and to guide us into the truth of His headship. Jesus Christ, as our head, reveals the Father in terms of what pleases Him and what His will is through His written word.

When we walk by faith and obey the will of the Father through His written word, we have authority over the devil and the flesh and the Holy Spirit bears fruit in our lives as members of Christ's body, the church. The written word has instructed us that God is immutable and He changes not. It also tells us not to meddle with them that are given to change Pro 24:21. The Holy Spirit is God and can not be divided against Himself. The Spirit, the Word and the Blood all agree in one on the earth 1John 5:8. Therefore, the mind of the Spirit is the mind of Christ and we have the mind of Christ through the written word.

The mind of the Spirit agrees with the written word that we mix faith with and live by as members of Christ's body. The authority that we have as members of His church is revealed through our obedience of faith to His written word and that authority is Christ being manifested and revealed through us as our head. The authority of the church is to reveal Christ as the head, who filleth all things through His body. All authority on earth comes from Christ, who is the head of His body and when he was here on earth he fulfilled the written Word as the living Word that became flesh and dwelt among us.

Eph 1:22,23 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#24
Bible commentaries are useful to get the correct meaning from the scriptures. Why don't you consult experts in the bible to help you understand what it says? The bible says God gave some to be teachers.
Instead of trying to learn ABOUT the Lord from “experts,” I try to KNOW the Lord through PRAYER. “Experts” are people who get paid to “interpret.” They would all be rich if we all believed we needed them.

Do we need “experts” to be saved? No. All we need is the Lord. Everything we need to know is already in the Bible. All we have to do is read the Bible and pray constantly. The Lord will show us the way.

Yes, the Lord might have people give us useful tips about how to understand the Bible, just like he might have us give useful tips to others. We all have useful insights—not just the “experts”—otherwise this website would serve no purpose, would it? As we grow older we accumulate more wisdom, hopefully. Go ahead and check out commentaries and consult with teachers, if you wish. There’s nothing wrong with that.

You’ve got a good head on your shoulders. You could be of great use to the Lord, but you have to do things His way.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#25
I understand where both Bob and Mahagony are coming from. Having a personal relationship with God, where you use the gift of the HOly Spirit to form a bond of understanding and love with God is extremely important on a spiritual level. But, on another level, if you are confused on a subject, it's nice to be able to read the reasearch done on the context, history, and possible interpretation of whatever you are confused about. When I was a peer minister, I led a Bible Study for the college students and we used "Mark for Beginners" and it was awesome. It gave you the context, the history, an interpretation, and often times it really brought to light the levity of what was going on. Yeah, we read that Jesus went up to some fishermen and told them to put down their nets and follow Him. But sometimes we read it and are like cool, but Mark for Beginners had a paragraph that really makes you think about the levity of that. These men put down their possessions, their profession, their family, everything that was familiar to them to follow a man claiming to be the Messiah. HOw many of us can put down our remote to pick up the Bible for God, and yet these men gave up everything. Think how hard it would be to tell your father, I'm sorry, I cant' continue your family trade because I'm giving up everything to go with this man claiming he's the son of God. I would have never looked at it that way without a little thought guidance.

I think a balance of supplement material and a personal understanding is necessary for us to fully explore our Christian potential.
 
Sep 27, 2009
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#26
Harley, didn’t you say you are Episcopal? I have always been a United Methodist, but my mother is an Episcopal. We went to her church together this summer. She wanted to sit in front where I couldn’t watch the people in front of me to know when to sit, kneel, or stand. My Mother has a bad heart and just sits. Out of the corner of my eye at one point, I could see one guy standing while another was kneeling. So I felt rather embarrassed throughout wondering what I was suppose to be doing, knowing everybody could see me.

Perhaps you should have a gadget up front that is like a street light, that changes colors to let you know if you are supposed to be standing, sitting, or kneeing.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#27
Instead of trying to learn ABOUT the Lord from “experts,” I try to KNOW the Lord through PRAYER. “Experts” are people who get paid to “interpret.” They would all be rich if we all believed we needed them.

Consult experts who know the Lord as well, which is what I do. The bible says God gave us teachers.
Experts in the bible and knowing the Lord are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think they are. Then again non-christian experts in the bible are sometimes able to see historical or other facts that Christians are too biased to consider.



Do we need “experts” to be saved? No. All we need is the Lord. Everything we need to know is already in the Bible. All we have to do is read the Bible and pray constantly. The Lord will show us the way.
The bible says God gave us teachers, so yes, you do need experts, from your Sunday school teacher to your church pastor to your theological college professors.





Yes, the Lord might have people give us useful tips about how to understand the Bible, just like he might have us give useful tips to others. We all have useful insights—not just the “experts”—otherwise this website would serve no purpose, would it? As we grow older we accumulate more wisdom, hopefully. Go ahead and check out commentaries and consult with teachers, if you wish. There’s nothing wrong with that.
The thing is peoples opinions of even basic passages of the bible, such as yours concerning the nature of the lake of fire and other topics are off track when they don't need to be. I don't even need a bible commentary to tell me they're off-track I have discernment, I simply consult a commentary that confirms or denies my opinion. That could be remedied if you simply consult a good bible commentary, that's all I'm saying. It's not hard to do. You are on this thing called the internet, and theres plenty of online resources on the bible websites. On this topic of binding and loosing there are whole denominations who think that this is talking about spiritual warfare and casting out demons, which is wrong. And they say you've got to bind a demon before you cast him our and that's complete rubbish for anyone who has cast out a demon or read how Jesus and his disciples cast out demons. I don't consider plain biblical error to be simply just another insight, it's error, it's a lie, and I don't want to be teaching lies so I check up bible commentaries and books by experts do you?
 
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Sep 27, 2009
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#28
Consult experts who know the Lord as well, which is what I do. The bible says God gave us teachers.
Experts in the bible and knowing the Lord are not mutually exclusive as you seem to think they are. Then again non-christian experts in the bible are sometimes able to see historical or other facts that Christians are too biased to consider.





The bible says God gave us teachers, so yes, you do need experts, from your Sunday school teacher to your church pastor to your theological college professors.







The thing is peoples opinions of even basic passages of the bible, such as yours concerning the nature of the lake of fire and other topics are off track when they don't need to be. I don't even need a bible commentary to tell me they're off-track I have discernment, I simply consult a commentary that confirms or denies my opinion. That could be remedied if you simply consult a good bible commentary, that's all I'm saying. It's not hard to do. You are on this thing called the internet, and theres plenty of online resources on the bible websites. On this topic of binding and loosing there are whole denominations who think that this is talking about spiritual warfare and casting out demons, which is wrong. And they say you've got to bind a demon before you cast him our and that's complete rubbish for anyone who has cast out a demon or read how Jesus and his disciples cast out demons. I don't consider plain biblical error to be simply just another insight, it's error, it's a lie, and I don't want to be teaching lies so I check up bible commentaries and books by experts do you?
I try to be in prayer at all times, as Paul instructs (1Thes.5:17). If the Lord tells me to consult Bible commentaries, then hopefully that is what I will do.
 
H

Harley_Angel

Guest
#29
Lol Bob. We call those pew aerobics. Some people stand during prayer but "old schoolers" like to kneel. You cross yourself any time the priest does it or he says "blessed" lol. You sort of just learn when to to cross the t's and dot the i's but I agree, they need neon flashing road signs.
 
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