The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#81
I am not calvinist, and I belief faith is never alone, Nor is salvation by works

so am I a lordship salvation person?

an arminian believes salvation can be lost how is that in anyway close to the endure to the end that any believer in eternal security believes?
Do you believe that you are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption? ( eph 4.30 )
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
113
#82
I am not calvinist, and I belief faith is never alone, Nor is salvation by works

so am I a lordship salvation person?

an arminian believes salvation can be lost how is that in anyway close to the endure to the end that any believer in eternal security believes?
I'd recommend looking at both sides of the debate . One side believes Lordship Salvation positively the other negative. John Macarther being the former. Just to get a balanced view .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,468
1,590
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#83
You have done homework or been through it

.... there have been a few on this site over the years that have understood the implications of Lordship Salvation, a tentacle of Calvinism that has infiltrated the churches... however most are have already been indoctrinated they cannot see it.
Yeah I was leaning that way for a couple of years unawares which happened gradually through listening to too much youtube rather than bible .
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#85
I'd recommend looking at both sides of the debate . One side believes Lordship Salvation positively the other negative. John Macarther being the former. Just to get a balanced view .
My discussion is about enduring to the end. not lordship salvation
 

AndyMaleh

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2020
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
#88
From this post I can see you have not read much in this post

if you are offended this easy maybe you should find another thread
Wait! So you disregard everything I said about Satan even though it comes from scripture?! And, I am not sure why you mentioned offense. I did not mention I was offended. And, even if I was, it's OK as long as it's in the name of the Lord, our Father in Heaven. A true Christian never brings up offense to people as their attention is always on God instead. That's an atheistic concern for those who don't serve the Lord and only serve their own feelings. As a Born Again Christian, I have no concerns but those of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. Also, it sounded like you were kicking me out? You think that makes Jesus happy instead of avoiding Satan when someone reminds you to!?! I'm really puzzled by your response.
 

AndyMaleh

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2020
863
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
#90
From this post I can see you have not read much in this post
Also, how did you conclude I did not read much? Where do you think I sensed the anger? I obviously read or else I would have not posted, but even if I didn't read, people can sense anger without even reading if they wanted. I would have expected you to know that already. I am still puzzled by your response.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#91
I'd recommend looking at both sides of the debate . One side believes Lordship Salvation positively the other negative. John Macarther being the former. Just to get a balanced view .
Can you elaborate, is MacArthur the former... positive side of it?
How do you mean?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#94
My understanding is that anyone that believes that Mathew 24 .13 is for the church age believer is holding to Lordship salvation .
Then they believe salvation can be lost and must be maintained. There is no others interpretation of that passage other than the correct one
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#95
Also, how did you conclude I did not read much? Where do you think I sensed the anger? I obviously read or else I would have not posted, but even if I didn't read, people can sense anger without even reading if they wanted. I would have expected you to know that already. I am still puzzled by your response.
You judged people and their motives and were wrong in your judgment, and not get mad when you were judged.
look inside
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,560
7,671
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#96
The Calvinist still holds to the same understanding of the verse . They have to endure to the end otherwise they will not be one of the elect. In practice its the same 'Lordship salvation
I am not sure you (or some others) understand what Lordship Salvation is, and many Christians view it negatively. Here is the proper understanding from Got Questions. And it is biblical. Not just Calvinistic.

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"

Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience...

Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17;Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).

Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
15,560
7,671
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#97
Then they believe salvation can be lost and must be maintained.
If you read the Five Articles of the Remonstrants (Arminian doctrine) they do not really say that salvation can be lost. And Calvinists teach the eternal security of the believer (as do Bible-believing Christians).
 
Apr 2, 2020
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#98
I am not sure you (or some others) understand what Lordship Salvation is, and many Christians view it negatively. Here is the proper understanding from Got Questions. And it is biblical. Not just Calvinistic.

Question: "What is lordship salvation?"

Answer: The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience...

Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17;Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).

Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin...
Another one of the tensions that's present in the Bible, the need to submit vs freedom in Christ. Lordship salvation often breaks too strongly in favor of obedience and risks developing an orphan spirit, whereas a failure to recognize the need for submission is likely to produce unrepentant individuals from recognizing their true need for a Savior.

It's quite humbling when you begin to recognize forming concise doctrine on a lot of issues is not within our grasp and all we can do is trust in God's guidance. He will deliver, but it's through relationship which takes both submission and engaging in the freedom that Christ brings.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#99
What do you mean by 'look to God ' for their salvation and keeping ' ?
I said I was not following you. So please explain your original comment before questioning me about my question to you.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Do you really not know the answer to your question or are you just joking? I can't tell.
I asked this question...
"
"There is no difference"..."Cover up differences"...
So which is it? "


First you said 'there is no difference', then you go on to mention 'cover-up differences'. So please explain the apparent contradiction.